We redesigned Holy Shield

75 Troll Druid
670
06/21/2011 12:10 PMPosted by Zarom
tiny sliver of the time you're tanking really isn't a buff


33.3....% is a tiny sliver of the time?

What are you, Feanorian?
2 Blood Elf Mage
0
I'd rather them just nerf the amount blocked and keep it as 100% uptime.
1 Goblin Warrior
0
Not quite. If I take $5 from you then give you $2, do you feel wealthier?


Yes this exactly mirrors the Holy Shield change insert sarcasm tag here.

Yes at the end of the night when you look at damage taken your numbers will be higher. That is a nerf. No question asked.

Except total damage taken doesn't (directly) lead to tank death.

Generally it's spike damage that kills a tank, and this change gives you (in theory) better protection during a spike in damage.

Now whether or not the change is actually be worth or not and/or leads to a QoL improvement is the question. Certainly those who try to maxamize the usage of the change will get more value, and those that don't will not.
75 Troll Druid
670
06/21/2011 12:12 PMPosted by Denestus
I'd rather them just nerf the amount blocked and keep it as 100% uptime.


They did that. We have 100% uptime of a nerfed block amount. Instead of just leaving it at that, they kept an iconic Prot ability and gave us another cooldown.
2 Blood Elf Mage
0
06/21/2011 12:14 PMPosted by Foiblesqt
I'd rather them just nerf the amount blocked and keep it as 100% uptime.


They did that. We have 100% uptime of a nerfed block amount. Instead of just leaving it at that, they kept an iconic Prot ability and gave us another cooldown.


20 second downtime is 100% uptime? Really?
2 Blood Elf Mage
0


20 second downtime is 100% uptime? Really?


You already block for 30%, 100% of the time.

Now you also have a cooldown.


Expand on that. Are you insinuating that every prot paladin is capped in mastery and sitting in raid epics?
/sigh

People need to stop thinking of this change in terms of a nerf or a buff. Yes, obviously it is a nerf, but it's also a situational buff and yes, it can be both things at the same time. This change raises the skill-set (albeit by a small amount) of Paladins by putting some of our mitigation at our control. If you are angered or frightened (or just too damn thick-headed to consider this change rationally) then you have two options: macro it onto CS/HotR and forget it exists or don't use it.

The one thing I have seen from every person posting who is angry about this change (well, except Fean) is that all of you are ignoring the fact that we will be block-capping in this tier. Leaving Holy Shield the way it is now creates a massive problem and by changing it the way Blizzard did, they killed two birds with one stone. We now have a more active role in our mitigation and we won't be block-capping with a 40% block 'value'.

You know what, let me repeat this one more time; we will be block-capping in this tier.
90 Human Paladin
7900
Maybe for you, if you have massively over-geared healers and top-notch dps in your raid. For the majority of the population in WoW, though, that's not the case. And yes, a constant increase in damage to their tank *is* very relevant.


Just offhand, how exactly do you think that people get to have massively over-geared healers and top-notch dps in their raids? In my experience - and it's entirely possible that this is an outlier - you get all that gear by killing raid bosses. Given that you have to kill the bosses to get the gear, at some point you killed the boss without the gear.

As a general rule, the faster you progress through content, the LESS gear you killed any given boss with. This means it's entirely relevant when the hardmode raiders say things like "TDR matters less than you think", because when they did the content their healers had LESS regen, their tanks had LESS TDR, and less health - and they still managed to get through it.

So, the heroic mode raiders in this thread are all saying that the change is effectively a buff, even though it's clearing a nerf to total damage reduction. They have all explained why. I've posted why in other forums, and on my blog. The information is out there, if you're willing to leave this echo chamber behind for a few moments.


75 Troll Druid
670


You already block for 30%, 100% of the time.

Now you also have a cooldown.


Expand on that. Are you insinuating that every prot paladin is capped in mastery and sitting in raid epics?


If I'm going to block, it's going to be for 30% of the damage 100% of the time.

I don't have 100% dodge, but if I dodge an attack, 100% of the damage is dodged.
2 Blood Elf Mage
0
That is what DP and AD are for.


You forgot GoaK. That's OK, I forget it sometimes too, but I've only been seriously playing my paladin in Cata for a few days now. Anyway, knowing when to use which CD is a part of tanking. It's something relevant to all tanks. Taking less damage during periods where the healer can keep you alive using their mana-neutral heal isn't going to make a difference. Taking less damage when they have to start with the quick and expensive heals, that's going to make a big impact. And even with the impressive array we already have, with two 3-minute CDs and a good 1 minute CD, there will still be times when everything is used and you still want to reduce damage. The damage you're reducing might not be lethal in itself, and certainly not lethal enough to warrant a big CD, but saving your healer's mana so they can heal you through that final soft enrage push at the end is going to make a huge difference.


Just remove Holy Shield and give it to us as a passive. Nerf the amount by half and make it constant uptime. I really don't want to deal with micromanaging cooldowns.

It might be fun for the theorycrafters, but it feels more like work/a chore for me. Number crunching is not fun. I play the game to play the game. Not look through spreadsheets and calculate when the ideal time to use Holy Shield is.

06/21/2011 12:19 PMPosted by Brohk
You know what, let me repeat this one more time; we will be block-capping in this tier.


Yeah? Does that mean everyone will raid and be in raid gear this patch?
Edited by Denestus on 6/21/2011 12:24 PM PDT
1 Goblin Warrior
0
Just remove Holy Shield and give it to us as a passive. Nerf the amount by half and make it constant uptime. I really don't want to deal with micromanaging cooldowns.

It might be fun for the theorycrafters, but it feels more like work/a chore for me. Number crunching is not fun. I play the game to play the game. Not look through spreadsheets and calculate when the ideal time to use Holy Shield is.


If that is your issue just macro it to your strikes and have done with it.

Will it be optimal? No, but it will be there.

Heck it very much fits in with what the blue was talking about with DKs and auto tanking vs. manual.
Edited by Grymix on 6/21/2011 12:25 PM PDT
85 Draenei Paladin
4475
You clearly have no idea how damage intake and survivability work.

Also, judging by your gear and spec (no GbtL? Really? You NEVER WoG? Also, wtf@reforging out of parry into hit), you don't know how your own class works. Bai


Posting from an alt doesn't give you much credibility to complain about other's choices, and some of my choices were made for the majority of tanking I do - in 5-mans, where hit is actually fairly helpful and Vengeance isn't really a factor.

Yes, I do use WoG, but I use it situationally, not every single time the cooldown is available.
75 Troll Druid
670
06/21/2011 12:23 PMPosted by Denestus
Not look through spreadsheets and calculate when the ideal time to use Holy Shield is.


So when Magmaw picks you up you need to calculate whether you should use a cooldown?

tanking I do - in 5-mans


Like I said, the change from 40% block to 30% block isn't going to be what causes the wipe in the content you are doing.
Edited by Foiblesqt on 6/21/2011 12:29 PM PDT
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