Coups d'etat of My Sons Guild

(Locked)

100 Human Paladin
6425
My friends 17 year old son created the Guild Legends of the Alliance (Perenolde) almost 4 years ago. Just before guild leveling, and perks launched he had over 350 members in his guild. He payed for the guild tabs, recruited people held events for almost 4 years. When guild leveling and perks launched, his guild shot up from 350 to over 500 pretty fast. In months the guild was up to level 20. For the past 4 years records will show he has always been the guild master.
Due to financial hardship, he was unexpectedly unable to play his account for a month. Today when he logged back on, one of his officers had taken over his position as guild master and kicked 200 plus members out, including my friends son.
The offending officer, kicked everyone out of the guild who protested him taking it over. Then proceeded to ask Blizzard to make him the GM due to the current GM's inactivity. Blizzard made this person the GM due to inactivity and with the vote of the remaining guild members.
When I brought this to a Blizzard GM's attention. He refused to look into this, check the facts and consider an exception. At a very basic good faith business conduct it doesn't make sense for Blizzard to get involved and so quickly make the decision to give this guy the GM rank. My friends kid was gone 1 month vs 4 years of building, recruiting and helping his guild mates.
The GM says that the decision was made for the "...benefit and growth of the guild..." The guild has not grown anywhere in a months time. It's still level 20 as it was when my friends son left and it's still has all of his bank tabs etc. How is this at all reasonable, fair, honest? I'm really just stunned that this has happened and that a Blizzard GM is refusing to look at the facts and make an exception. It's just not how Blizzard treats their customers. Please look into this as it really seems an unusual thing to do.
85 Blood Elf Paladin
2440
The GMs are following policy, and it has to be particularly strict in areas like this.

If any guild leader is absent for more than a month, they can be removed/replaced. Regrettable as your friend's son's real-life situation might have been, he should have transferred leadership to someone else before taking his hiatus.
90 Blood Elf Paladin
7315
Exceptions are the very antithesis of good customer service.

Your friend's son was away for a month.. your friend's son is not more important than the other members of that guild, who were sitll subscribed and paying customers.

While your friend's son was not subscribed, he was not a customer to be serviced, so they dealt with the actual paying customers instead.
85 Worgen Warrior
2065
I'm sure that when Blizzard made the decision to remove the kiddo from Guild Leadership, they didn't know he was coming right back. In the future, don't be a Guild Leader if you're not active in my opinion.
100 Human Paladin
6425

Worglord Inactive for 1 month after 4 years of loyal uninterrupted service does not equal inactivity and should have been taken into consideration before passing leadership. Plans would have been made had we known. Assuming a 4 year uninterrupted active subscriber, gone for good, as a result of 1 month of inactivity is poor judgment and not Blizzards usual conduct. In game GM claiming Blizzard will not get involved, after they've already gotten involved doesn't inspire confidence in this GM's decision making or ability to effectively up hold policy. Part of up holding a policy is taking into consideration facts and exceptions.

Laikar The active subscribers game play was not interrupted in the slightest by the 1 month absence of the founding GM. All features of the game, all perks of the guild were all available and Officers were in place to support and manage needs. The features, paying subscribers were paying for, were all available. The growth of the guild not at all effected by GM transition. Some guilds really do not need alot of GM hand holding and this is one of them.

Sliceyface The strictest of laws and rules have exceptions and my values, sense of fairness and honesty, this case warrants an exception. Please show me where this policy is written and available to the consumer in Terms of Service? Where is this policy printed and available to the consumer, that states, if you leave for 1 month, we will take away your guild?
85 Human Death Knight
2180
Honestly, that's horrible. Those other guild members had the choice to /gquit. Your son deserves his gold back at least!
12 Gnome Mage
30
Worglord Inactive for 1 month after 4 years of loyal uninterrupted service does not equal inactivity and should have been taken into consideration before passing leadership.


I'm sorry, but how long a GM's been playing before they take a hiatus doesn't factor in for anyone. Four years or four months of total playtime, if they're gone for a month another officer within the guild can petition for leadership and have it passed on. It sucks - I personally think that this fact should be better publicised to GMs - but that's life.
100 Human Paladin
6425
Thanks Sorrow. Thanks Theloot. At least you guys get how f'd up it is.
20 Dwarf Hunter
0
I tend to agree with you Op, I get sick of blizzard sticking their noses into guilds like this. Same thing with taking peoples names away, just does not sit right.

Your best bet is to post a suggestion on how this could be better handled for future guilds and the owners of those guilds, good luck to you and your friends son.
90 Human Warlock
16930
I tend to agree with you Op, I get sick of blizzard sticking their noses into guilds like this. Same thing with taking peoples names away, just does not sit right.

Your best bet is to post a suggestion on how this could be better handled for future guilds and the owners of those guilds, good luck to you and your friends son.


Many guilds cannot run properly without an active Guild Master. The Guild Master is the only person in the guild who can access or use many of the tools. This being the case they have a transition plan for when a Guild Master seems to have abandoned the guild, so that the guild can keep functioning. 30 Day of no activity on a cancelled account is the norm, and its might be even longer if the account isn't cancelled.

Valadora, I am sorry things turned out how they did. It certainly doesn't seem fair in this case, but the policy exists for a very good reason, should your friends son ever be in a similar situation in the future, letting the guild know and handing GM over to a Trusted officer would be great ideas. If your friends son wants to dispute the change, they should do so, the GM likely wouldn't help you because you have no standing to make such a request.

Best of luck.
Sliceyface The strictest of laws and rules have exceptions and my values, sense of fairness and honesty, this case warrants an exception. Please show me where this policy is written and available to the consumer in Terms of Service? Where is this policy printed and available to the consumer, that states, if you leave for 1 month, we will take away your guild?


Right here--> http://us.blizzard.com/support/article.xml?locale=en_US&articleId=20061&pageNumber=3&searchQuery=guild

And while it does suck that the kid lost his guild, if Blizzard makes a single exception for anyone in the way they enforce their own policies, then it creates a precedent, and then they have to make exceptions for anyone and everyone for anything...which can then be very easily exploited by the less moral players in the community (and yes, they would exploit the hell out of it)....

**Edit-Adding in as well, you might want to change your title a bit, since it is misleading. You say in the title that he is your son but then in the actual original post, you say he's your friend's son...just who's son if he? Kind of confusing....
Edited by Elddar on 6/19/2011 4:21 AM PDT
85 Night Elf Rogue
9150
I tend to agree with you Op, I get sick of blizzard sticking their noses into guilds like this. Same thing with taking peoples names away, just does not sit right.

Your best bet is to post a suggestion on how this could be better handled for future guilds and the owners of those guilds, good luck to you and your friends son.


500+ players were sick of not having a GM around to handle guild business. Without knowing when he would be back, Blizzard did the right thing.

In regards to names- they aren't the players' to begin with. Blizzard extends to you the content in the game, which includes the characters created by players themselves, on the condition that you abide by the policies they have set.
61 Worgen Priest
10505
The Guild Leader should have made someone else guild leader in his absence then none of this would have happened. Even if the financial hardship was unexpected (not longer able to log in) he could have still submitted tickets via email to handle this. A good leader of a large guild would stay in touch with the members and take care of this stuff to prevent things like this from happening honestly.
06/18/2011 11:08 PMPosted by Valadora
When I brought this to a Blizzard GM's attention. He refused to look into this,

This is because it is against policy to speak to anyone about stuff to do with the friends son's account or their cousins uncle's wife's account, or anyone elses account. I am assuming the GM was giving basic info on why guild changes are done, not specific info. Your friends son would need to make a ticket and be the one to speak to a Game Master not you.
86 Goblin Warlock
4380
06/18/2011 11:08 PMPosted by Valadora
It's still level 20 as it was when my friends son left and it's still has all of his bank tabs etc.


This indicates to me that the perhaps most of the people in the guild are inactive because that shouldn't be possible if people are doing dailies and raiding or even doing dungeons.
100 Human Paladin
6425
Hathios that is possible and it's also possible that there are many ALTs in this guild. I also have to correct myself it's level 21 now. The guild perks, supported effectively, elimiate the need for a GM to micro-manage a guild. It's supported by the activities of it's members and officers.

Tinkerbella no one was made guild leader in absence because an informed decsion was unable to be made in this case. Officers were in place to support the guild in the case of a short term absence.

Wichasha what business are you referring to? Are you referring to your own guild experience? This guild, this situation did not need GM micro managing. Especially with people, new members enjoying the perks of a level 20 guild.

Elddar thanks for posting the location on this policy. I can see why this person feels entitled to petition the GM status. My sense of integrity does not support keeping it. It also confirms this policy was made before Guild Perks were put in place. I still believe this case deserves an exception.
100 Blood Elf Hunter
11155
06/19/2011 09:22 AMPosted by Valadora
I still believe this case deserves an exception.


And as its been pointed out, once one exception is made, that makes room for others. This is why policies exist.

If you would like to see a change in the policy, I'd suggest posting in the Raid and Guild Leadership forum. A constructive post outlining the changes you would like to see, in a place where the Developers will read it, will do better then a post in the CS forums where no one can do anything to change your friends son's situation.
100 Human Paladin
6425
06/19/2011 04:20 AMPosted by Elddar
want to change your title a bit, since it is misleading


Thanks again Elddar. I meant to address this early on. This is a collaborative effort. Responding to this situation and posting under my name, are myself and the father of this person. It's not meant to be misleading. We are the parent and friend of the family to the person who lost this guild under these circumstances.

Scrinshee Yes you are right. Making an exception to a policy can lead to making more exceptions, until finally the policy is revised to support current needs. We are asking that an exception be made in this case and that the policy be revised. The first revision of the policy needs to be posted publicly for consumers to make informed decisions about becoming a GM and how to manage it while away. It needs to be more visible by adding it to terms of service, rules of conduct etc.
61 Worgen Priest
10505
Tinkerbella no one was made guild leader in absence because an informed decsion was unable to be made in this case. Officers were in place to support the guild in the case of a short term absence.

Well apparently the choice of officers, this one in particular was not a good one. I have a large guild. If our leader disappeared and we were unsure of their return and had done this, any one of us would return the leadership back over upon the GL's return. This comes from making good choices in who you can trust. Not saying it is his fault just saying "stuff" happens.

Now if it can be proven that this officer did not make good choices for the guild or mislead GM's with his intentions for taking over the guild then the original guild leader might have an argument to get it back. This is all depends on the actions and such of the new guild leader. Also like I said before the original guild leader needs to be handling this. There is absolutely nothing you can do to help. It is not your account, not your character, nothing they can speak to you about.
Edited by Tinkrbella on 6/19/2011 10:02 AM PDT
85 Blood Elf Paladin
2440
06/19/2011 09:58 AMPosted by Valadora
The first revision of the policy needs to be posted publicly for consumers to make informed decisions about becoming a GM and how to manage it while away. It needs to be more visible by adding it to terms of service, rules of conduct etc


Not to sound cynical, but no one reads those to begin with (just come to this forum for a few days for statistical evidence).

The real issue here seems to be that your friend's son (who should be the one contesting this action in the first place) didn't inform anyone of what was going on. He didn't make arrangements with his officers. He didn't appoint a new GM. From your description, it sounds like he didn't even bother to tell people he was going to be gone.

Had he done any of those things, he'd have some grounds for appeal. But when someone just goes AWOL for a month, I can completely understand why guild members would want to get new leadership. They had no idea if he was even going to come back.

I appreciate that his situation sucks. But when you take over leadership of a guild, you take on a lot of responsibilities. One of those responsibilities is making sure that the guild has leadership- if not you, then someone who you trust to take care of things while you're gone.
100 Blood Elf Hunter
11155
Scrinshee Yes you are right. Making an exception to a policy can lead to making more exceptions, until finally the policy is revised to support current needs. We are asking that an exception be made in this case and that the policy be revised. The first revision of the policy needs to be posted publicly for consumers to make informed decisions about becoming a GM and how to manage it while away. It needs to be more visible by adding it to terms of service, rules of conduct etc.


All right, but that is not how Blizzard works. if you want to see a change in policy, you're going to have to post it in the correct forum. The people who make those decisions are not on this one. There isn't anything anyone on this forum can do for you.

I will say that I don't see the policy getting a change. Blizzard is more and more trying to stay out of Guild politics and allowing the players to handle their own guilds. I'm also almost positive that Blizz tries to email the GL to ask them about the transfer of power before they actually do so (can someone let me know if I'm crazy or not), which would mean that the young man had a chance to stop it, but for one reason or another, didn't.
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