Fix the Frostlord Scythe

10 Dwarf Paladin
80
Making it ideal (stat-wise) now and it would stomp all over ZA/ZG weapons. It's fairly trivial to obtain so we're just not really willing to do that.

The solution we're considering would be to make it a 346 blue, but there are some designer-y issues and side effects of what a change like that would cause. Either way I don't think we would be keeping it purple and giving it Int or otherwise making the stats more ideal.

But anyway, those cloaks are pretty sweet, huh?


I don't get why it's a problem with it being better then ZA/ZG weapons? It's supposed to be highly desirable and you only have one chance per day to get it. Not to mention that when 4.2 comes out very soon 359 weapons will be very easy to get.


And then there is the past case (and probably future) of the items/weapons from Direbrew/Headless Horseman. Those items are all quite useful (I'm remembering the Tankard o' Terror especially), a match for things their ilevel. But then this scythe is alone in being singled out.

Why is it ok for other weapons from Direbrew/HH to be useful while this scythe isn't?
91 Draenei Paladin
11185
06/21/2011 12:43 PMPosted by Ken
Its not that big of a deal.


Quoted the only part of your post that made sense in relation to this entire discussion.


I mean, to the people asking for this weapon to be better, are you really suggesting that a boss that you can queue for OVER AND OVER again and do at least 10 times an hour, with next to ZERO difficulty, should drop an item as good as those off the last boss in the troll heroics?

Seriously, you don't think that MAYBE, just maybe, that that's asking for just a BIT too much.
85 Human Paladin
3605
06/21/2011 12:43 PMPosted by Ken
It's just as much my opinion that you should suck it up. Your opinion is a demand that Blizzard upgrade it and reduce the drop rate. I don't think you exactly have grounds to get high and mighty.


We're not demanding for an upgrade. We're requesting a more intelligent stat allocation so that its at least better than ilvl 333 alternatives. I dont know why people have to be so obtuse about it. Its not that big of a deal.


It's a big enough deal that Bashiok posted in this thread and told you NO. Accept it and move on.
85 Orc Warlock
9860
You guys can whine all you want. I like it just fine, thanks. (Seeing as it'll get replaced when/if I ever set foot in a raid anyway. I'm just enjoying it for the giggles. *grin*)
10 Dwarf Paladin
80
06/21/2011 12:48 PMPosted by Helagoth
Its not that big of a deal.


Quoted the only part of your post that made sense in relation to this entire discussion.


I mean, to the people asking for this weapon to be better, are you really suggesting that a boss that you can queue for OVER AND OVER again and do at least 10 times an hour, with next to ZERO difficulty, should drop an item as good as those off the last boss in the troll heroics?

Seriously, you don't think that MAYBE, just maybe, that that's asking for just a BIT too much.


Just a small correction, the scythe drops only from the bag. You can only get one bag a day. You could run Ahune from sunup to sundown and you wouldn't see it drop outside of maybe being in that one bag a day.
70 Draenei Paladin
2590
06/21/2011 12:48 PMPosted by Helagoth
Its not that big of a deal.


Quoted the only part of your post that made sense in relation to this entire discussion.


I mean, to the people asking for this weapon to be better, are you really suggesting that a boss that you can queue for OVER AND OVER again and do at least 10 times an hour, with next to ZERO difficulty, should drop an item as good as those off the last boss in the troll heroics?

Seriously, you don't think that MAYBE, just maybe, that that's asking for just a BIT too much.


The staff comes from the satchel of chilled goods which you can get once a day and has a very small chance of dropping from it. You cannot farm this staff.
Making it ideal (stat-wise) now and it would stomp all over ZA/ZG weapons. It's fairly trivial to obtain so we're just not really willing to do that.

The solution we're considering would be to make it a 346 blue, but there are some designer-y issues and side effects of what a change like that would cause. Either way I don't think we would be keeping it purple and giving it Int or otherwise making the stats more ideal.

But anyway, those cloaks are pretty sweet, huh?


There is a vast SWATH of territory between "ideal" and "completely worthless".

Somewhere in the middle of that territory would be "stats most casters don't favor" (crit, anyone?). Or even "lesser secondary stats". Gutting INT just makes the staff too terrible to even contemplate using, and quite a disappointment.

For that matter, I don't see a weapon that you can only get a shot at 1/day for ~2 weeks out of the year, with a rare drop rate, being able to "stomp all over ZA/ZG weapons" as a problem.
Edited by Risu on 6/21/2011 12:55 PM PDT
91 Draenei Paladin
11185
The staff comes from the satchel of chilled goods which you can get once a day and has a very small chance of dropping from it. You cannot farm this staff.


I stand corrected. It's still a dirt simple boss though, be happy that it can drop ANY 'useful' loot.
85 Orc Shaman
4430
Making it ideal (stat-wise) now and it would stomp all over ZA/ZG weapons. It's fairly trivial to obtain so we're just not really willing to do that.

The solution we're considering would be to make it a 346 blue, but there are some designer-y issues and side effects of what a change like that would cause. Either way I don't think we would be keeping it purple and giving it Int or otherwise making the stats more ideal.

But anyway, those cloaks are pretty sweet, huh?


There is a vast SWATH of territory between "ideal" and "completely worthless".

Somewhere in the middle of that territory would be "stats most casters don't favor" (crit, anyone?). Or even "lesser secondary stats". Gutting INT just makes the staff too terrible to even contemplate using, and quite a disappointment.


Personally, I think it might as well be made a BoA with no stats at all, but you could give it to any toon and it would look cool.
85 Blood Elf Priest
5880

I mean, to the people asking for this weapon to be better, are you really suggesting that a boss that you can queue for OVER AND OVER again and do at least 10 times an hour, with next to ZERO difficulty, should drop an item as good as those off the last boss in the troll heroics?

Seriously, you don't think that MAYBE, just maybe, that that's asking for just a BIT too much.


You can queue for ZG/ZA over and over too. Since there's only 2 heroics in that queue, you have a 50% chance to get the instance you want for the weapon.

I don't think it's asking too much for the weapon to be on par with heroic weapons. Considering that was true in wotlk...and in bc.
48 Gnome Priest
360
06/21/2011 12:18 PMPosted by Bashiok
But anyway, those cloaks are pretty sweet, huh?


To be honest the plate tanking cloak is pretty meh. However that doesn't bother me. Neither does the +Agi cloak having haste instead of mastery for my little 85 bear.

It's not like Ahune is the only source of cloaks (or staves for that matter) we have.
90 Human Warlock
16930
Making it ideal (stat-wise) now and it would stomp all over ZA/ZG weapons. It's fairly trivial to obtain so we're just not really willing to do that.

The solution we're considering would be to make it a 346 blue, but there are some designer-y issues and side effects of what a change like that would cause. Either way I don't think we would be keeping it purple and giving it Int or otherwise making the stats more ideal.

But anyway, those cloaks are pretty sweet, huh?


Its previous incarnations were never so bad. And the thing is rare as heck, I've done Ahune every day of every festival he was available and have never seen it, and while I only want it for looks, I don't see that something pretty rare that is only available for 2.5 weeks needs to be so terrible.
10 Dwarf Paladin
80
Making it ideal (stat-wise) now and it would stomp all over ZA/ZG weapons. It's fairly trivial to obtain so we're just not really willing to do that.

The solution we're considering would be to make it a 346 blue, but there are some designer-y issues and side effects of what a change like that would cause. Either way I don't think we would be keeping it purple and giving it Int or otherwise making the stats more ideal.

But anyway, those cloaks are pretty sweet, huh?


Here's the question I have: Why is it that the scythe cannot be equivalent to others of its ilevel while other holiday-related items ( Tankard O' Terror, Direbrew's Bloody Shanker. Both from WotLK, but I am certain you guys will be upgrading them for this year as well) are perfectly fine being decent? I don't see either the Tankard or the Shanker having no Agility on them.
100 Goblin Shaman
16310
Making it ideal (stat-wise) now and it would stomp all over ZA/ZG weapons. It's fairly trivial to obtain so we're just not really willing to do that.

The solution we're considering would be to make it a 346 blue, but there are some designer-y issues and side effects of what a change like that would cause. Either way I don't think we would be keeping it purple and giving it Int or otherwise making the stats more ideal.

But anyway, those cloaks are pretty sweet, huh?


Should just make it and all the holiday items 346 blues. Actually while you are at it make all the 353 items from ZA/ZG blue as well (keep the ilevel at 353).

Purples versus blue doesn't mean anything at the moment, why not make it mean something. Blues from 5 mans and valor/justice point venders, purples from raiding only. For those items with upgrades from HM raid encounters let it turn the blues into purples since they require a raid drop.
100 Human Warlock
16785
Making it ideal (stat-wise) now and it would stomp all over ZA/ZG weapons. It's fairly trivial to obtain so we're just not really willing to do that.


Does that really matter with a new tier of item levels on the verge of release? The current brewfest and hallows end weapons for 4.2 are greater then ZA/ZG in item level.

http://ptr.wowhead.com/item=71331 Maybe it won't be on par with other 365's, but it will be greater a pretty sweet weapon that can be obtained from a trivial encounter. Why is midsummer held to a different standard?

Is it really that big of a deal if someone gets a weapon equal to ZA/ZG from a holiday event? Something they could use, something to help them gear up for Firelands and old t11 content they haven't done.

Wasn't ZA and ZG added to help gear people up to do t11 and get easier start for t12? So why go backwards in logic because something is a holiday boss.

Legacy of Arlokk is the staff from ZG last boss.
Frostscythe of Lord Ahune is the staff from Midsummer.

Also why is it okay to allow people to get "proper itemized" cloaks from a trivial encounter? Don't the cloaks equally stomp all over ZA/ZG, Valor Vendors and T11?

Hakkari Loa D*@!# vs Shroud of Winter's Chill The trivial to obtain cloak stomps all over the ZG cloak. So why the double standard, just because its a weapon? That seems silly to implement a poorly designed item just because its a weapon.
100 Human Warlock
16785
06/21/2011 12:48 PMPosted by Helagoth
I mean, to the people asking for this weapon to be better, are you really suggesting that a boss that you can queue for OVER AND OVER again and do at least 10 times an hour, with next to ZERO difficulty, should drop an item as good as those off the last boss in the troll heroics?


The scythe drops from the Satchel, which is once per day. Not the boss, which is repeatable. The cloaks however are equal to ZG/ZA loot and can be repeated as many times a day as you want.
85 Undead Mage
5740
A Wild Bashiok appears!

Bashiok uses explaination on Forum!

It is not very effective.

Bashiok uses Smoke Screen!

06/21/2011 12:18 PMPosted by Bashiok
But anyway, those cloaks are pretty sweet, huh?


It is super-effective!

Thread gets derailed.

Bashiok wins!
Edited by Artirius on 6/21/2011 1:02 PM PDT

Does that really matter with a new tier of item levels on the verge of release? The current brewfest and hallows end weapons for 4.2 are greater then ZA/ZG in item level.

http://ptr.wowhead.com/item=71331 Maybe it won't be on par with other 365's, but it will be greater a pretty sweet weapon that can be obtained from a trivial encounter. Why is midsummer held to a different standard?


THIS. A million times this. Looking at hallow's end makes this look even sillier.
Edited by Risu on 6/21/2011 1:00 PM PDT
10 Dwarf Paladin
80
A Wild Bashiok appears!

Bashiok uses explaination on Forum!

It is not very effective.

Bashiok uses Smoke Screen!

But anyway, those cloaks are pretty sweet, huh?


It is super-effective!

Thread gets derailed.

Bashiok wins!


Posters use Logic!

Smoke Screen dispersed!

edit: Oh lord and I'm getting derailed. Um, so yeah, why is it ok for the updated weapons for Brewfest/Halloween to be good but for the scythe to not be? Answer me that.
Edited by Gungnir on 6/21/2011 1:02 PM PDT
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