Moonfarespam: The Moonkin PvE Guide

85 Worgen Druid
10645
11/01/2011 11:21 AMPosted by Tagartou
We have pretty much the same progression on current tiers with the exception that you killed H Nef back when it was relevant while I didn't. After 4.2 I didn't bother to go back and and finish up the other hard modes because I would rather focus on new stuff and our old raid 10 man group raids on the weekends. I would like for you to explain how having 13 points of hit, after the hit cap, is better than having 13 points of mastery instead of deflecting.


Heroic LK 10 when it was relevant. Heroic ToC 10 when it was relevant. Heroic Nef (which you mentioned) when it was relevant. I've been a relevant moonkin for awhile.

I never said 13 points above hit cap were better than 13 points of mastery, but 13 points of mastery in my gear is not relevant to my dps. It's just not, plain and simple. 13 points in mastery gets me nowhere. If it was haste or spell power I'd probably agree with you. I could run home from work and make the change and hit the dummy and I'll do absolutely no more dps. The change would literally be unable to be shown. From what I've read and calculated, a .07 mastery increase (which is what 13 rating would add) would net a 0.0026985 dps increase. That means I would add .16 damage on my current target per minute. And that's not even accurate because that would be assuming I was in eclipse the entire minute which is the only time I benefit from mastery. Most assume you're in eclipse for 60%, but I'll say 75% just to have this be less biased. So 75% of 0.0026985 is 0.002023875. So that's roughly .15 damage per minute on a boss. So on a 10 minute fight, I would get 1.50 extra points of damage on a boss total. You tell me how that's relevant.

And furthermore, answer me this. If you're so obsessed with min/max why would you have engineering as a profession?. Min/Max buffs like yourself have tailoring and jewelcrafting.

Reply Quote
85 Worgen Druid
10645
I did miss read Eluial's response somewhat. I didn't miss read where you told him to save his gold and not pre-pot or pot to increase his output on meters though. That was his question. How do I increase my output on meters. That sums it up.
Reply Quote
90 Worgen Druid
10200
11/01/2011 01:45 PMPosted by Khalador
I did miss read Eluial's response somewhat. I didn't miss read where you told him to save his gold and not pre-pot or pot to increase his output on meters though. That was his question. How do I increase my output on meters. That sums it up.


It's a good way to get your DPS up, but honestly, for farm content or nerfed regular FL, it's just a waste of gold. You're clearly not pushing cutting edge content. Unless your group is running into enrage timers, using one pot during heroism is good enough.


Summary:
1. pre-potting is a good way to get your DPS up.
2. It's not necessary for regular content.
3. 1 pot during heroism is good enough.

I never say that it's a bad thing. I could have been a little clearer in saying that I wasn't advising against it, but rather just saying it's a lot more optional than other things that were mentioned about rotation and gear.

My intention wasn't to discourage or stop him from pre-potting, but just to understand that it's simply not necessary for his level of raiding. It's the same reason I don't tell alts in full blues to check out SimC for the best rotation. I try to pitch my advice at the level of the person receiving it. Giving advice isn't just about being correct, it's also about knowing your audience.

And again, I'm not saying he absolutely shouldn't pre-pot. Just that it seems a bit silly given the content he's doing.
Reply Quote
90 Night Elf Druid
9380
11/01/2011 10:21 AMPosted by Khalador
Looking at my progression and all, I'd say I'm doing it right, but thanks for playing. I'll leave and let you have your forums back. You obviously need to help these people to give yourself some sort of entitlement and me answering a question has obviously ruffled your feathers, so it's yours. Hopefully you'll accept my ever so gracious apology, /sigh


Ego-tripping twits like you wouldn't be tolerated on TMR. Thank god.
Edited by Moineau on 11/1/2011 10:56 PM PDT
Reply Quote
Hmm does anyone know of an Addon or anything for Wild Mushrooms that makes it so that the targetting reticule reflects the radius of its detonation? Because then it'd be easier for people to place shrooms efficiently to hit a maximum number of targets, as there are times when everything isn't neatly stacked underneath them. Just thought that it would be a somewhat useful Addon, so someone might've made one.
Reply Quote
85 Worgen Druid
10645
11/01/2011 10:54 PMPosted by Moineau
Ego-tripping twits like you wouldn't be tolerated on TMR. Thank god.


I lol'd pretty hard. You quoted me defending myself against someone else saying I was bad at my class for not taking a .0026985 dps reforge. Maybe if I just said that randomly out of nowhere it would classify as ego tripping. But pointing out my progression as a response to someone saying a reforge is holding me back is 100% relevant. So please, judge someone by calling them a twit. Makes you look great. And I don't like TMR. I don't really like any site that just restates what I can read on EJ. And I don't need help playing this game, so I don't need TMR.
Reply Quote
90 Troll Druid
11445
I cant believe that I'm responding to you but you're the one who attacked me ad hominem first by saying that I wasn't hit-capped(incorrect) and then criticizing my reforging, which is 100% optimal as I have 0 wasted stats. I just responded that you can't claim to be 100% optimized because you have 13 wasted stats. A shallow rebuttal, true, but at least it is accurate.
Reply Quote
And furthermore, answer me this. If you're so obsessed with min/max why would you have engineering as a profession?. Min/Max buffs like yourself have tailoring and jewelcrafting.


Isn't engineering an awesome profession for Min/max though?? The fact that it's on-use means you can line it up with other CDs, and you can have the extra int for portions of the fight where it's more relevant(i.e. burn phases/add phases on rag), because having 80-somthing int in parts of a fight where you're on the run or just not DPSing doesn't help as much.

I'm not 100% sure, but these are just some reasons smo stated in favor of engineering on themoonkinrepository, and they seem quite compelling to me. Not that I'd ever drop herbalism though. All your herbs are belong to me know.

11/01/2011 10:54 PMPosted by Moineau
Ego-tripping twits like you wouldn't be tolerated on TMR. Thank god.


Harsh words, brah :(
Edited by Velaniz on 11/2/2011 6:31 AM PDT
Reply Quote
85 Worgen Druid
10645
Yeah, this arguing thing is getting old. I'm not an "ego tripping twit", I'm optimized because the sims I look at don't calculate fractions of DPS I guess. Neither one of us is min/maxed because we both have engineering. You're armory says your not hit capped, I go by what I see on armory which is the only resource I have for looking. I looked at wow-heroes as well, and same result, not hit capped. I don't trust wow-heroes, but that's the only two places I know that have any of that info.
Reply Quote
85 Worgen Druid
10645
11/02/2011 06:29 AMPosted by Velaniz
Isn't engineering an awesome profession for Min/max though?? The fact that it's on-use means you can line it up with other CDs, and you can have the extra int for portions of the fight where it's more relevant(i.e. burn phases/add phases on rag), because having 80-somthing int in parts of a fight where you're on the run or just not DPSing doesn't help as much.


I always thought the same thing. Being able to hold the proc for when power torrent and my DMC:V int proc'd seemed really powerful in early Cata, but everything I read says Min/Max is Tailoring and JC. I know the uptime to the tailoring proc is really really strong. I was a max tailor/enchanter in wrath, and went JC and Engi during Heroic LK. I'm just not a big fan of getting new professions every tier. I find engineering to be the only "fun" profession in the game, so I hold onto it in hopes of it getting some buffs. If they took the fail chance out of the boots I'd be extremely happy. I used to kite on heroic Atramedes and it was make or break if the boots failed sometimes.
Reply Quote
Well perhaps that holds true for a fight where there's minimum downtime,but having a proc you don't have control over might mess you up. I remember how I felt like breaking something everytime I had to move during Eclipse back in wrath. Stuff like that reduced my dps significantly, and all those incidents where it happened are etched deeply into my soul lol. I instinctively shun random proc trinkets/profs now xD

And another point that Smo made that I should point out is that Engineering(when used on cd) averages out to 80 int if and only if the duration of the fight is exactly X minutes(assuming you use the engineering gloves precisely when the fight starts) After that, it increases in eng's favor.


Eg,
Lets say an encounter of baleroc lasts 5 mins 30 seconds, and you use the engineering enchant 6 times. That averages out to (480x10x6)/330 = 87.27 intellect. This drops closer and closer to 80 as you reach the 6 mins mark, but immediately after that it shoots back up as you use it
Edited by Velaniz on 11/2/2011 6:59 AM PDT
Reply Quote
85 Worgen Druid
10645
The old Eclipse mechanics + the Plaqueworks heroic encounters (all 3) used to make me want to cut myself. I completely agree on the engineering still be the best ,others just don't see it that way.

"Tailoring is slightly better than other professions.: Lightweave Embroidery gives 580 Int for 15 seconds, 20% proc on spellcast, 60 second cooldown. The average benefit is around 140 Int, minus the 50 Int you usually have on your cloak, for an increase of around 90 Int"

That's from Hamlet on EJ.
Edited by Khalador on 11/2/2011 7:09 AM PDT
Reply Quote
85 Tauren Druid
9295
Hey Guys!

Just wanted to pop back in and say thanks again for all the advice. My DPS is now at least hanging with the rest of the pack. I saw significant improvement last night.
Reply Quote
90 Worgen Druid
10200
11/02/2011 05:08 AMPosted by Velaniz
Hmm does anyone know of an Addon or anything for Wild Mushrooms that makes it so that the targetting reticule reflects the radius of its detonation? Because then it'd be easier for people to place shrooms efficiently to hit a maximum number of targets, as there are times when everything isn't neatly stacked underneath them. Just thought that it would be a somewhat useful Addon, so someone might've made one.


Not to my knowledge, but it does sound like it would be pretty neat. Maybe try putting up a suggestion on the addons/UI boards and see if any of the addon developers likes it enough to give it a shot.

11/02/2011 07:07 AMPosted by Khalador
"Tailoring is slightly better than other professions.: Lightweave Embroidery gives 580 Int for 15 seconds, 20% proc on spellcast, 60 second cooldown. The average benefit is around 140 Int, minus the 50 Int you usually have on your cloak, for an increase of around 90 Int"

Well, it's a max of 90 int, not taking into account lost uptime from moving/inability to DPS. The engi gloves are a bit better, because you can time them for max benefit, like at the beginning of an eclipse. Also because you can use them at times when you know you won't have to move.

With the stealth nerfs to tailoring a while back (can't remember whether that blurb from Hamlet's guide takes it into account or not), engi definitely comes out on top.

edit:
Hey Guys!

Just wanted to pop back in and say thanks again for all the advice. My DPS is now at least hanging with the rest of the pack. I saw significant improvement last night.

Yay, glad to hear it!
Edited by Eluial on 11/2/2011 12:21 PM PDT
Reply Quote
85 Worgen Druid
10645
I still don't think engi would be a top profession for min/maxing. If you wanted to bump tailoring for the loss of reliability on movement and not proc'ing in eclipse, then I would think a static int profession would come out on top with JC like Alchemy, Enchanting, BS or Leatherworking. The static Intellect bonus they give would outweigh an on use item. Who's to say you don't pop your gloves and then the tank dies and it's on you to Brez him. It just became null. A fight like heroic baleroc where you could get linked to someone and have to run to them, or Shannox, you could pop them and get face raged. I know we all use timers and can predict a lot of movement and events, but stuff still happens.
Reply Quote
85 Worgen Druid
10645
Hey Guys!

Just wanted to pop back in and say thanks again for all the advice. My DPS is now at least hanging with the rest of the pack. I saw significant improvement last night.


I'm sure those monster upgrades you picked up aren't hurting either. grats.
Reply Quote
85 Worgen Druid
10645
06/23/2011 11:46 AMPosted by Eluial
The engineering glove tinker also averages out to +80 Int. Since the tinker is on-use and not a proc, you have better control of when you can use it relative to certain events in the fight, but it's still possible to experience some loss of usefulness of the buff. The goggles are strong at the T11 level, but T12 gear will surpass them.


That's from your guide. Kind of agrees with what I said.

You didn't really name any two professions as superior in your guide like a lot do.

Is the fact that you're using LW and Alchemy just a personal preference or a stance on what's statistically best?
Reply Quote
90 Worgen Druid
10200
That's from your guide. Kind of agrees with what I said.

You didn't really name any two professions as superior in your guide like a lot do.

Is the fact that you're using LW and Alchemy just a personal preference or a stance on what's statistically best?


My choices are more personal preference. I'm not in a guild where I'd consider absolute min/maxing to be necessary (we're a pretty casual 2 night a week 10m guild), and I find profession grinds to be an absolute nightmare. If I was to min/max I'd probably do engi/JC though, and that's what I'd recommend to anyone asking what the best professions are currently (though I'd also give a word of advice that 4.3 is around the corner and we're still not sure what's going to happen to profession bonuses with the introduction of epic gems).

People better at math than I am have shown me calculations where, with proper use, the engi gloves are actually worth closer to 97 int because of the way you can time them to get the most bang for your buck.

The professions page is actually part of the guide I've kind of neglected lately, along with the rotation section. They've both been gnawing at me but I can't work up the enthusiasm to just get it done. At this point, I think it just makes the most sense to wait to see what 4.3 brings us before messing with either one.
Reply Quote
90 Troll Druid
11445
Yeah, if you only use it during eclipse it ends up being like 97 int-82 int depending on if you lose a use or not. As for tailoring, I just wouldn't take it because there is the slightest chance of you not getting to have your DoTs benefit from a proc. So I'd say absolute min/max would be tailoring/engi.

Thankfully I don't have to absolutely min/max professions, just have both not be gathering. Reforging however, I figure its just a few gold and I like being at exactly the hit cap because I'm a little OCD.

I'm interested what 4.3 brings in regards to profession bonuses. BS will be best by a long shot eventually(since they say it will take forever to gem up) and JC will be worst unless they change things, but then the other professions will beat out BS and JC will be top until you get full epic gems. I really hope they just re balance bonuses and make the gems relatively easy to acquire, that's the only way I see this not being tricky.

Edit: In case you were wondering where the math is for engi then Smo kinda napkin-math'd it out over at TMR in the "Best PVE professions" thread.
Edited by Tagartou on 11/2/2011 4:05 PM PDT
Reply Quote

Please report any Code of Conduct violations, including:

Threats of violence. We take these seriously and will alert the proper authorities.

Posts containing personal information about other players. This includes physical addresses, e-mail addresses, phone numbers, and inappropriate photos and/or videos.

Harassing or discriminatory language. This will not be tolerated.

Forums Code of Conduct

Report Post # written by

Reason
Explain (256 characters max)
Submit Cancel

Reported!

[Close]