Moonfarespam: The Moonkin PvE Guide

90 Night Elf Druid
4845
So, Belt of Universal Curing is better than Girdle of the Grotesque?
Edited by Shmanky on 8/6/2012 8:18 PM PDT
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90 Troll Druid
11620
So, Belt of Universal Curing is better than Girdle of the Grotesque?

Yes.
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100 Troll Druid
11585
Oh man the new ability on google docs to protect spreadsheet cells is fantastic, too bad my spreadsheet will be obsolete in a few weeks.

And to make this relevant, have you got around to analyzing stuff for 5.0 with the most recent changes? I had everything figured out but then they changed the DoTs down to 14s base time and made crits extend their timers and it screwed me all up.
Edited by Tagartou on 8/10/2012 11:13 PM PDT
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90 Troll Druid
11620
I think we play as we did in T12...just keep going.
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100 Troll Druid
11585
08/10/2012 11:36 PMPosted by Cyous
I think we play as we did in T12...just keep going.
Thats what I was thinking too, just keep DoTs up and making sure to apply your eclipsed one at least once per eclipse. Nice and simple at least and no need for headache about whether or not to clip.

I was also thinking that it looks like crit may beat out haste after breakpoints, but I'm not entirely sure about that. Either way, they are looking to be our biggest increases on fights, and mastery may be relegated to the unwanted stat in any situation where burst isn't extremely valuable(and I doubt that an encounter like spine will come back along in the foreseeable future).
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90 Troll Druid
11620
I think we play as we did in T12...just keep going.
Thats what I was thinking too, just keep DoTs up and making sure to apply your eclipsed one at least once per eclipse. Nice and simple at least and no need for headache about whether or not to clip.

I was also thinking that it looks like crit may beat out haste after breakpoints, but I'm not entirely sure about that. Either way, they are looking to be our biggest increases on fights, and mastery may be relegated to the unwanted stat in any situation where burst isn't extremely valuable(and I doubt that an encounter like spine will come back along in the foreseeable future).

I think Crit is the overall "must have stat" even for Burst. Starsurge/Shooting Stars just hits so damn hard, one extra proc simply outweighs everything else.

I think it'll go
Int > Hit Cap > Crit > Haste(*) > Mastery
* To nearest NG breakpoint without sacrificing any Crit.
Edited by Cyous on 8/11/2012 10:16 AM PDT
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90 Worgen Druid
10200
Sorry, been neglecting this thread. Cyous has it all covered :D
I think it'll go
Int > Hit Cap > Crit > Haste(*) > Mastery
* To nearest NG breakpoint without sacrificing any Crit.

Yeah, everything I've seen says this. We'll treat haste the way resto currently does - reach the break point possible in your current gear, then forget about haste until the next break point becomes available.

It will definitely be very weird going back to crit chicken after being a zoomkin for so long.

Also, not sure about the not sacrificing crit part. Break points will still be pretty big boosts for us, so it very well may be worth it to sacrifice some amount of crit in order to reach one. But we're going to have a hard time figuring out exact stat weights while our abilities are still in flux =\
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90 Troll Druid
11620
Haste_NG_Breakpoint > Int > Hit Cap > Crit > Haste > Mastery

You should not be sacrificing Crit unless you're stuck trying to maintain the breakpoint without losing Hit Cap. The only time would be the following:

All items not [Crit + Hit] or [Crit + Haste] reforged to Haste Breakpoint without using Crit or, but not meeting Hit Cap. Using [Crit + Haste] item and reforging Crit to Hit to reach Hit Cap. So, it may happen, but unlikely.
Edited by Cyous on 8/15/2012 3:31 PM PDT
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90 Worgen Druid
10200
08/15/2012 03:29 PMPosted by Cyous
All items not [Crit + Hit] or [Crit + Haste] reforged to Haste Breakpoint without using Crit

That would only be [mastery + hit] or [mastery + crit] items. In the first instance, you'd be "sacrificing" crit in that usually the mastery (or potentially the hit, which might be excess) would be reforged to crit, but because of trying to reach the break point you reforge to haste instead.

The only time you're not sacrificing crit in order to get haste will be on a [crit + X] item, where X is either haste or is reforged to haste.
Edited by Eluial on 8/15/2012 3:42 PM PDT
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90 Troll Druid
11620
08/15/2012 03:42 PMPosted by Eluial
All items not [Crit + Hit] or [Crit + Haste] reforged to Haste Breakpoint without using Crit

That would only be [mastery + hit] or [mastery + crit] items. In the first instance, you'd be "sacrificing" crit in that usually the mastery (or potentially the hit, which might be excess) would be reforged to crit, but because of trying to reach the break point you reforge to haste instead.

The only time you're not sacrificing crit in order to get haste will be on a [crit + X] item, where X is either haste or is reforged to haste.

Seems logical.

Regardless, NG Breakpoint + Hit Cap is a must. Sacrifice as little crit as possible (general idea we've been saying!)
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90 Worgen Druid
10200
Seems logical.

Regardless, NG Breakpoint + Hit Cap is a must. Sacrifice as little crit as possible (general idea we've been saying!)

Thems sound like fightin words!

...oh wait, no they don't. I love it when we argue because we always end up just saying the same thing but in different ways.
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100 Troll Druid
11585
08/16/2012 11:49 AMPosted by Eluial
...oh wait, no they don't. I love it when we argue because we always end up just saying the same thing but in different ways.
Wait....you guys were arguing? I thought that you were just affirming each other's ideas. You need to make it clearer for outside observers that you are, in fact, arguing.

Glad to see you guys saying that though, its what I was thinking about the stats and its good to hear it backed up.

Now, I've been seeing sims that show NV and DoC being about even, which I tested out myself on target dummies and I was getting results within tolerance to each other to call even. So, I'm guessing that NV will be the way to go in a true raid setting considering that A) its more beneficial to healers and B) using it doesn't completely remove your ability to do movement dps. And of course C) DoC is clunky as clunky can be. So do either of you have a good argument for DoC?
Edited by Tagartou on 8/16/2012 1:52 PM PDT
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90 Worgen Druid
10200
08/16/2012 01:51 PMPosted by Tagartou
Wait....you guys were arguing? I thought that you were just affirming each other's ideas. You need to make it clearer for outside observers that you are, in fact, arguing.

Shut up, you're wrong.

Eh, I use arguing to mean exchanging ideas. Blame the philosophy background.

08/16/2012 01:51 PMPosted by Tagartou
Now, I've been seeing sims that show NV and DoC being about even, which I tested out myself on target dummies and I was getting results within tolerance to each other to call even. So, I'm guessing that NV will be the way to go in a true raid setting considering that A) its more beneficial to healers and B) using it doesn't completely remove your ability to do movement dps. And of course C) DoC is clunky as clunky can be. So do either of you have a good argument for DoC?

NV and DoC being about even is inline with what GC has stated for those talents. He also said that HotW should be slightly ahead of those two on paper, but on practice having more control over your DPS boost should make up for any theoretical difference between the talents.

If NV still stacks with incarnation and CA, and if incarnation and CA still stack with each other (this has changed so many times I have no idea where it stands right now), NV will reign supreme on any fight that has a burn phase or burst situation.

DoC... I just don't know. Part of the problem is the shortened timer on the dots. You might try to argue that DoC would be strong in a multi-target fight, but the problem is the execution time to up time ratio. I mean, even if our dots did the same amount of damage they do now, but over a longer period of time, it would still be better than what it is now. Lower DPS, but higher DPET (in the long run, that is -- on a per-dot basis, DPET would be exactly the same, of course).

Say you have 2 relevant kill targets. Every 14s you'd have to run through HT, MF, SnF, HT, MF, SnF. That's about 8s right there. Of course, that might not be the best route. You could do HT > eclipsed dot target 1 > eclipsed dot target 2 > uneclipsed dot target 1 > uneclipsed dot target 2 and that's only ~6 seconds. Or you could drop the uneclipsed dot altogether, for only ~4s. But even at that extreme, you're spending 4s every 14s to get the damage of one extra eclipsed dot.

On the flip side, DoC (potentially***) scales with mastery, making it better as we get better gear.

***I say potentially because I actually don't know whether the DoC bonus is applied before or after mastery. I hope for after, but my shriveled little moonkin heart tells me it's probably before.

As things stand now, unless I hear some amazing things about DoC, I'll probably be running an NV spec for raids and an HotW spec for 5 mans. Incarnation v SotF depends strongly on your haste levels.
Edited by Eluial on 8/16/2012 2:40 PM PDT
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100 Troll Druid
11585
08/16/2012 02:37 PMPosted by Eluial
If NV still stacks with incarnation and CA, and if incarnation and CA still stack with each other (this has changed so many times I have no idea where it stands right now), NV will reign supreme on any fight that has a burn phase or burst situation.
Last time I checked they all scale with each other(ie NV just applies its bonus multiplicatively and Incarnation's eclipse boost also boosts damage during CA).

08/16/2012 02:37 PMPosted by Eluial
On the flip side, DoC (potentially***) scales with mastery, making it better as we get better gear.
Doesn't everything scale with mastery? I mean NV will get better with more mastery, especially if used with incarnation and CA so that you get about 100% eclipsed uptime during NV.

Unless I completely misunderstand what you mean by "scales with mastery"
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90 Worgen Druid
10200


On the flip side, DoC (potentially***) scales with mastery, making it better as we get better gear.
Doesn't everything scale with mastery? I mean NV will get better with more mastery, especially if used with incarnation and CA so that you get about 100% eclipsed uptime during NV.

Unless I completely misunderstand what you mean by "scales with mastery"

Yeah, just gonna chalk that up to a derp moment.

edit: on my part, that is. As in, yes, they all scale with mastery.
Edited by Eluial on 8/16/2012 7:42 PM PDT
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90 Troll Druid
11620
08/16/2012 01:51 PMPosted by Tagartou
C) DoC is clunky as clunky can be. So do either of you have a good argument for DoC?

Yes. I'm arguing on the notation that DOC is FE is disguise.

THAT MOOSTASHE ES LE FAKE.

On a more theorycrafty note...
Lower DOT durations (modified by haste if you're not directly on the breakpoint) directly effects DoC viability. If you're forced to cast HT to keep your Eclipsed DOT mega buffed, you're losing the following:
HT_CastTime (2sec for simplicity)
DOT refresh GCD (x2 if you refresh both DOTs)
Lower NG uptimes through loss of NG-buffed Starfire/Wrath/Starsurge casts which slows Eclipse cycling is escalates into lower APM, coupled with one misclick/buttonpush, which translates roughly to: "It sucks to be you if you fail" (it's punishing)
In addition, a poorly timed HT during movement (encounter forces movement) means you're forced to withhold your Eclipse, thus makes you're DPS for that cycle udder crap. HOWEVER, NS->HT provides you with 3 GCDs for movement phase it's able to be used on simply because: Movement -> NS+HT -> DOT1 -> DOT2 -> SS?/Movement end. It which case DOC would be preferred choice for non-sustained movement DPS, but purely determined by the duration of said movement.

That should be enough for a bit.
Edited by Cyous on 8/16/2012 8:40 PM PDT
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90 Troll Druid
11620
MOP Balance Druid Spellcast Priorities:

~ Does this look about correct?
--[[

######################

// Macro1 \\

/use Incarnation: Chosen of Elune
/use Nature's Vigil

\\ //

######################

// Macro2 \\

/use Celestial Alignment
/use Berserking(Racial) -- Troll only
/use 13/14 -- Trinket 1/2
/use Moonfire

\\ //

##############################
Encounter Start - Preperations
##############################

75 pre-Lunar (to Lunar)

Pulling in 3..2..1

Pre-pot (Potion of the Jade Serpent)

Starfall (#1)

Wrath (Euphoria grants +15; total: 30 --- triggers Lunar Eclipse)

##############################
(** Lunar Eclipse **) Using CA
##############################

Macro1

Sunfire

Moonfire

Starsurge > Starfire

Starfall (when possible; after previous Starfall fades)

Macro2 (after leaving Lunar Eclipse, if possible)
Starfall (when possible; after previous Starfall)

Moonfire (if CA duration <= 1sec)

Starsurge > Starfire (until Solar Eclipse; 3 casts)

##############################
(** Solar Eclipse **) After CA
##############################

Sunfire (don't refresh asap after CA; if Sunfire duration <= 1000)

Moonfire (don't refresh asap after CA; if Moonfire duration <= 1000)

Starsurge > Wrath

Clip DOTs: (prior to exiting Solar Eclipse)
Sunfire (if duration <= 6sec)
Moonfire (if duration <= 4sec)

Starsurge > Wrath (until Lunar Eclipse; 3 casts if left Solar with 10 to Lunar)

##############################
(** Lunar Eclipse **) No CA
##############################

Starfall

Moonfire (clip unEclipsed DOT)

Sunfire (no active, else wait for Eclipsed DOT to fade)

Starsurge > Starfire

Clip DOTs: (prior to exiting Lunar Eclipse)
Moonfire (if duration <= 6sec)
Sunfire (if duration <= 4sec)

##############################
(** Solar Eclipse **) No CA
##############################

Sunfire (clip unEclipsed DOT)

Moonfire (no active, else wait for Eclipsed DOT to fade)

Starsurge > Wrath

Clip DOTs: (prior to exiting Solar Eclipse)
Sunfire (if duration <= 6sec)
Moonfire (if duration <= 4sec)
]]--
Edited by Cyous on 8/18/2012 3:33 PM PDT
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90 Worgen Druid
10200
Looks fine to me based on what I've been reading lately.

Just one question.

##############################
(** Solar Eclipse **) After CA
##############################

Sunfire (don't refresh asap after CA; if Sunfire duration <= 1000)

Moonfire (don't refresh asap after CA; if Moonfire duration <= 1000)

What do the 1000s mean?
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90 Troll Druid
11620
ms

1000ms = 1sec (metric!)
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100 Troll Druid
11585
I don't see anything wrong with it, and just so you know I copy/pasted it to send to the other moonkin in my guild who is clueless going into MoP because it seems to explain the rotation very well(don't worry, I credited you).

Now just wait until next build when everything changes again and all the theorycrafting that has been done gets tossed out the window.
Edited by Tagartou on 8/19/2012 12:38 PM PDT
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