Moonfarespam: The Moonkin PvE Guide

90 Troll Druid
7605
09/03/2012 09:07 PMPosted by Juventas
A quick question, though. If I am in lunar eclipse, should I put up moonfire first? And same with solar eclipse, with putting up sunfire. I have been putting sunfire up first because it's in the same spot as insect swarm used to be, and I have the habit of putting it up first when reaching an eclipse. I've skimmed through the thread for it, and I think I might have completely passed over it.


Yep, typically you want to do that to get the Eclipsed dot up and running asap, as it will be NG's buffed anyways. Also, we currently cruise through Eclipses so fast that alot of the time you will have the sunfire from your previous solar eclipse still up when you enter lunar. You want to leave this up as long as possible, and that means not replacing it with a non-eclipsed sunfire the moment you enter Lunar.

If you have a haste buff such that you are likely to exit lunar before all the stars from your starfall land (insignia), it might be a better idea to spam starfall first, although this probably won't be happening anymore once mop hits.

08/29/2012 01:31 PMPosted by Pitpit
I noticed this also. Thought maybe it was a bug with Glyph of The Stars at first, but I removed that and it still seemed longer.


Someone had an answer to this on tmr. Turns out Incarnation isn't so much a spell as it is a 'shapeshift', as lame as that is. What this means is that its gcd is not lowered by our haste, just as with all other shapeshifts. I never noticed this until reading that guy's post, but if you play around with and pay close attention to your regular gcds and shapeshift-incurred gcds, you realise that the shapeshift gcd does take noticeably longer, whereas if you do it with all your gear off, they're exactly the same.
Edited by Velaniz on 9/3/2012 10:29 PM PDT
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92 Tauren Druid
10725
Stupid question time - but if the Sunfire gets it's duration extended by 2 seconds with Wrath and Starsurge crits would those additional 2 seconds still be buffed by Solar Eclipse and Natures Grace? I'd assume if the additional 2 seconds were granted while in Solar eclipse and Natures Grace then they'd be buffed - but say you were one Wrath or Starsurge away from lunar and they crit and Sunfire gets an additional 2 second duration - the original Sunfire would have still had it's buffs from when it was originally cast but would the 2 additional seconds be buffed?

Sorry for the most complicated worded question ever.

I'm probably looking too far into this but yeah basically is the extended Sunfire duration buffed by the buffs the original cast had.
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90 Troll Druid
7605
Yep, the bit of the dot that gets extended is taken to have the same buffs you had at the moment when you cast that inital dot.

This is probably most noticeable after an Incarn/CA combo, when the dots you cast at 1-2 seconds of CA remaining keep their buffs for their full duration even after being extended by unbuffed nukes, and it's another reason why you ought to clip them at only around 1 second.
Edited by Velaniz on 9/4/2012 1:42 AM PDT
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100 Night Elf Druid
10665
09/03/2012 10:13 PMPosted by Velaniz
If you have a haste buff such that you are likely to exit lunar before all the stars from your starfall land (insignia), it might be a better idea to spam starfall first, although this probably won't be happening anymore once mop hits.

Did I read between the lines correctly here? If you exit Lunar eclipse in the middle of Starfall, your stars that land after exiting eclipse don't hit as hard as the ones that fell during eclipse?

I had always assumed that as long as Starfall was cast during eclipse, every star was buffed.
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90 Troll Druid
11620
Did I read between the lines correctly here? If you exit Lunar eclipse in the middle of Starfall, your stars that land after exiting eclipse don't hit as hard as the ones that fell during eclipse?

I had always assumed that as long as Starfall was cast during eclipse, every star was buffed.

That is correct. Starfall scales dynamically with your buffs.
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90 Troll Druid
7605
Ya, unless they changed something every individual star takes its own snapshot of your stats.
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90 Undead Mage
1725
New druid here. I'm sorry if this question has already been asked, but why do we reforge out of crit? Just curious. My druids gear is all messed up at the moment(lvl 17 boomy).

For balance, it's intellect, haste, hit/Spirit, mastery right?

I was also thinking of dual speccing into feral. Cat form is pretty fun. I'm loving the utility of Druids though. Only thing I'm not really liking is possibly having to have 2 sets of gear for when I dual spec.
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100 Night Elf Druid
10665
Did I read between the lines correctly here? If you exit Lunar eclipse in the middle of Starfall, your stars that land after exiting eclipse don't hit as hard as the ones that fell during eclipse?

I had always assumed that as long as Starfall was cast during eclipse, every star was buffed.

That is correct. Starfall scales dynamically with your buffs.

Ahh, so then the reverse holds true as well. The Starfall we cast to start off the rotation when we are one Wrath away from Lunar eclipse becomes buffed by both Lunar eclipse and Incarnation, thus this is why we don't want to overwrite that first Starfall... I see now, I see...

Sorry, I have said it before and I'll say it again that I am slow to catch on sometimes... I appreciate your patience.
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90 Troll Druid
7605
Anarchik, crit is our best stat now. Prior to 5.0.4 it just didn't scale as well as mastery and haste for us but now you want to reforge to it whenever you can. Dots crit have a chance to proc starsurge, and nuke crits extend your dots.

But if you're leveling just grab anything that comes your way :P Most of the time the higher ilevel piece will trump the lower ones.
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90 Worgen Druid
10200
09/03/2012 09:07 PMPosted by Juventas
Towards the end, I went down to ~37k because I messed up after CA, and continued to cast starfire, and was wondering why I was not getting into a new eclipse, when I should have been casting wrath. ):

Don't use CA during the sloar -> lunar transition, use it during lunar -> solar. Our cycles aren't so long that the slight delay it might take to make sure you're always using incarnation at the start of lunar and CA at the end of lunar doesn't matter much.

This *might* be a different story at level 90 with lower haste values, but for now, it doesn't matter.

09/03/2012 10:13 PMPosted by Velaniz
A quick question, though. If I am in lunar eclipse, should I put up moonfire first? And same with solar eclipse, with putting up sunfire. I have been putting sunfire up first because it's in the same spot as insect swarm used to be, and I have the habit of putting it up first when reaching an eclipse. I've skimmed through the thread for it, and I think I might have completely passed over it.


Yep, typically you want to do that to get the Eclipsed dot up and running asap, as it will be NG's buffed anyways. Also, we currently cruise through Eclipses so fast that alot of the time you will have the sunfire from your previous solar eclipse still up when you enter lunar. You want to leave this up as long as possible, and that means not replacing it with a non-eclipsed sunfire the moment you enter Lunar.

Eh, it's a really minor point (hence I don't mention it in the fast guide) but casting the eclipsed dot second actually gives it a slight boost via lunar showers. Most of the time it's a moot point though because you're not necessarily refreshing your dots at the same time.
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90 Troll Druid
11620
For the opener, I wonder if going to Solar before popping CA would be better, since you'd be going immediately back to Lunar...
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90 Worgen Druid
10200
09/04/2012 12:46 PMPosted by Cyous
For the opener, I wonder if going to Solar before popping CA would be better, since you'd be going immediately back to Lunar...

Not sure what you mean.

I think doing the Incarnation, Lunar, CA combo is better for burst, and using CA during the lunar -> solar transition improves efficiency. Even if you're paying very close attention to switch nukes after CA ends, it's still much more efficient to just be able to allow that final starfire to move your eclipse bar, and to have another one queued up.
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90 Troll Druid
11620
09/04/2012 02:36 PMPosted by Eluial
I think doing the Incarnation, Lunar, CA combo is better for burst, and using CA during the lunar -> solar transition improves efficiency. Even if you're paying very close attention to switch nukes after CA ends, it's still much more efficient to just be able to allow that final starfire to move your eclipse bar, and to have another one queued up.

typical opener with Lunar, you just dont CA 5sec too early.
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90 Worgen Druid
10200
09/04/2012 03:14 PMPosted by Cyous
typical opener with Lunar, you just dont CA 5sec too early.

I seriously and honestly have not got the faintest idea what you're talking about. Can you trying breaking it down for me with more details?
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90 Troll Druid
11620
09/04/2012 03:22 PMPosted by Eluial
typical opener with Lunar, you just dont CA 5sec too early.

I seriously and honestly have not got the faintest idea what you're talking about. Can you trying breaking it down for me with more details?

75 pre-lunar
Starfall
Wrath
Incarnation
SnF
MF
SS > SF
Starfall whenever
Hit Solar Eclipse
Celestial Alignment
MF
SS > SF
Starfall whenever
MF @ 1sec of CA
Wrath to Lunar
...
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90 Worgen Druid
10200
OK, the reason I wasn't understanding is because I thought for certain you couldn't mean to skip solar entirely, but I guess that's exactly what you meant. So why would skipping solar eclipse be a good idea?
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90 Troll Druid
11620
09/04/2012 04:22 PMPosted by Eluial
OK, the reason I wasn't understanding is because I thought for certain you couldn't mean to skip solar entirely, but I guess that's exactly what you meant. So why would skipping solar eclipse be a good idea?

Solar DPS sucks
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100 Night Elf Druid
10665
/raises hand timidly

But since Incarnation only works during eclipse, wouldn't a few seconds of Incarnation be wasted since you'll reach pre-Solar before Incarnation is up and then spend a few seconds casting SF & SS to reach Solar eclipse? Those 3-4 SF & SS casts in pre-Solar won't be Incarnation-buffed.
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90 Worgen Druid
10200
09/04/2012 04:25 PMPosted by Cyous
Solar DPS sucks

Sure, it sucks compared to lunar DPS. But it's still better than uneclipse DPS.

I mean, your lunar:solar ration goes up, which is good, but your eclipsed:uneclipsed ratio goes down. You increase your cycle speed at the cost of one of the buffed portions of your cycle. You're changing both the numerator and the denominator in DPS, so the question is, which one are you changing more? Since I haven't crunched any numbers I don't know if it could make sense to skip solar entirely once every 3 mins. Maybe it only makes sense to do so during heroism, when you can guarantee that all of CA will be Incarnation buffed.

But since Incarnation only works during eclipse, wouldn't a few seconds of Incarnation be wasted since you'll reach pre-Solar before Incarnation is up and then spend a few seconds casting SF & SS to reach Solar eclipse? Those 3-4 SF & SS casts in pre-Solar won't be Incarnation-buffed.

Some of Incarnation will be wasted no matter what. Doing what Cyous suggests leaves you with just a couple seconds at the end of CA without Incarnation up. At current haste levels.

Doing it where you use CA right at the tail end of lunar, all of CA and lunar are Incarnation buffed, but incarnation lasts several seconds after CA ends (but not long enough to buff the upcoming solar).

Both ways some of Incarnation is wasted, but at least with the end-of-lunar method, all of CA is covered. Though a couple seconds isn't a big deal; it could fluctuate greatly with RNG. If you get really lucky with procs you'll move along much faster, and if you get unlucky you'll be slower and more of CA will be wasted. During heroism/lust it won't matter at all.
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100 Troll Druid
11585
At high haste(meaning that you can do this and have incarnation end within 1s of CA ending) that could be viable. But except for in really high haste situations like that I just can't see it.
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