Moonfarespam: The Moonkin PvE Guide

90 Worgen Druid
10200
08/10/2011 05:11 AMPosted by Norgo
Ah. So, we really don't have to worry about which side to go, because it's going to go back and forth between them, as long as we keep our rotation up?

Yep!



Hi All!!!...

Anyways...My guild and i are working on Ragnaros, and i am here to plead for a couple of tips from much better Boomkins than i..I think i will drop the current spec i have and pickup Dreamstate, and change my Starsurge glyph with Wrath..are these changes warranted, or are they bad?

Even though i rarely post i am a avid reader of your post's/guide's Eluial, and iu want to add you do a great job with them. If i could get a quick reply to this it would be great considering we pull at 8:30 ^_^..

Drop LS and BotG, pick up dreamstate and gale winds. The last spare point can go into preserverance. You want wrath as your Prime, and you want to get rid of focus in your major slot.


Because of the long distance to Rag's head, you're going to see some delays in wrath and SS landings. That means that even when you've cast enough wraths to exit solar, you'll still be in solar for a few more seconds, and that time is ideal to reapply your dots (you'll be clipping a few seconds, but that's OK). Likewise, it's going to take a couple extra wraths to get INTO lunar - do NOT use SS during this lag time of you should have technically proc'd lunar but it hasn't registered yet. Save it for once lunar is actually up.

On transition phases, you can plant shrooms under 1 guy, and detonate as soon as they spawn. Save starfall for this phase as well. And try to be in an eclipse (which one is not as important).

In p2, you want to try to be in solar for the seeds phases, so delay your eclipse by casting SF in solar until the seeds pop. Then shrooms, starfall, dots.

I'll check here again when I get home if you have any more questions.
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90 Night Elf Druid
7310
This is great info, i've noticed the lapse in time it takes to get there and have got decent at timing my rotation. We've got him to 2% so im basically looking to do anything possible to raise my numbers

One question, why drop BotG for Pres. i understand this would'nt be a massive dps increase but it seems it would be helpful in some regards, and from what i understand Ragnaros deals mostly Physical damage (i could be wrong, i usually am).

Thanks for taking time out of your day to help a chicken out also.
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90 Worgen Druid
10200
08/10/2011 05:47 PMPosted by Degarii
and from what i understand Ragnaros deals mostly Physical damage (i could be wrong, i usually am).

If you're not the tank, all the damage you take is fire damage.

But even so, I have pres in my every day spec now, just because BotG is only semi-interesting if you're taking advantage of lunar shower, and LS is crap, so I find helping my healers out a bit is worth more than the minimal damage increase I'd see from BotG. But that's a personal preference.
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85 Goblin Warlock
310
Eluial I have a question. Is the 14th achievable DoT with DI and NG worth the loss of bonus eclipse damage? I mean with the 2175ish haste I have ATM I am noticing about a 22k dps avg on boss fights in firelands. Slightly behind our hunter and mage. Would the 22ish% increased eclipse damage help If all that haste magiclly turned into Mastery? I mean it seems that 17-20 seconds is not a long time to wait for a good 68% increased damage if you are mastery stacking. What are your thoughts?
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90 Troll Druid
11445
Let me take a shot at this.

Assuming 1.3% dps for 1% mastery(a very generous assumption) then all that mastery going from the 14th to the 13th tick would give you approximately 8.2% damage.

You would however lose 8.8% haste, and since 1% haste is worth more than 1% dps the haste is better.

Edit: hehe, my phone apparently thinks that I mean "sh!t" when I write "shot" and autocorrects it to such.
Edited by Tagartou on 8/11/2011 8:38 AM PDT
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85 Tauren Druid
5360
So I got my boomkin gear up pretty decent (avg ilvl 363) and can pull 14k-15k on a target dummy. Is this normal? It seems low to me.

Here are some screenshots of recount. I'm following what the guide says in post 1. Keep moonfire/insect swarm up at all times, hit Starsurge when it procs, and spam wrath/starfire depending on which way the bar's going. My mage friend can pull 25k in dungeons so 15k just seems blah :(

http://i.imgur.com/wt6MD.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/KQXBA.jpg
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85 Tauren Druid
5360
Just did a ZG with 4 guildies (so didn't get the +15% buff) and was doing about 13-14k on boss fights while my mage friend was doing 25k with similar ilvl gear :( Either I'm doing something wrong or moonkin DPS is poo
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85 Night Elf Druid
7550
First of all, THANK YOU for this guide!! I played a lot when Cata first dropped, but then school and work took over and I quit until a couple of weeks ago. WrathCalcs is a lifesaver :) This gave me a great sense of direction as to what I needed to do to catch up!

Unfortunately, I'm having the same problem as Boomstyck :( My DPS has gone from 10k to 16k with this guide, and I know my gear isn't the best (I only got all epics a couple of days ago) but I'm wondering if there's something I'm missing? Please feel free to take a look at my talents and everything. I'm not sure where my problem lies =/
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90 Worgen Druid
10200
08/11/2011 01:16 AMPosted by Çhâøs
Eluial I have a question. Is the 14th achievable DoT with DI and NG worth the loss of bonus eclipse damage? I mean with the 2175ish haste I have ATM I am noticing about a 22k dps avg on boss fights in firelands. Slightly behind our hunter and mage. Would the 22ish% increased eclipse damage help If all that haste magiclly turned into Mastery? I mean it seems that 17-20 seconds is not a long time to wait for a good 68% increased damage if you are mastery stacking. What are your thoughts?

Tag's math looks OK, though I didn't check it. I trust him :P

But basically, if your question is "should I have X amount of haste or X amount of mastery?" (where X is the same amount), the answer is haste. Even more so if that haste is going to put you over a break point.

08/11/2011 11:25 AMPosted by Boomstyck
Just did a ZG with 4 guildies (so didn't get the +15% buff) and was doing about 13-14k on boss fights while my mage friend was doing 25k with similar ilvl gear :( Either I'm doing something wrong or moonkin DPS is poo

I don't see anything particularly wrong with your gear/spec, at least at a quick glance. It's probably just going to be a matter of getting used to the rotation and learning how to take advantage of things. For example, always dot EVERYTHING that is relevant to the fight. Try to abuse eclipse with this multidotting - so you dot everything at the start of eclipse, nuke the primary target, and then dot everything back up at the end of eclipse. Use shrooms, too!

fake edit: I just noticed you have resto glyphs. That would be part of your problem. You should get those fixed.

And finally, DON'T, I repeat DO NOT, compare yourself to an arcane mage in short, burst-heavy fights. I don't care if they're in all greens - in a short fight, arcane mages can just blow through their mana like crack and do insane DPS. It's not even close to a fair comparison.

First of all, THANK YOU for this guide!! I played a lot when Cata first dropped, but then school and work took over and I quit until a couple of weeks ago. WrathCalcs is a lifesaver :) This gave me a great sense of direction as to what I needed to do to catch up!

Unfortunately, I'm having the same problem as Boomstyck :( My DPS has gone from 10k to 16k with this guide, and I know my gear isn't the best (I only got all epics a couple of days ago) but I'm wondering if there's something I'm missing? Please feel free to take a look at my talents and everything. I'm not sure where my problem lies =/

You are really close to a haste break point (1929) and slightly over the hit cap. I'd suggest heading over to wowreforge.com and plugging yourself in. I just plugged you in and you could be at exactly 17% hit, with 2001 haste. That's a pretty big upgrade.

Otherwise, same comments as above. Just try to spend more time in eclipse, multi dot, reduce movement, get better at timing your CDs. It takes practice.

Also, you want to drop lunar shower and moonglow, pick up dreamstate and gale winds.
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85 Tauren Druid
5360
oh god i didn't even think about my glyphs rofl

i switched my off spec from resto to boomkin, will definitely change those out this evening. thanks!

edit: just logged in while at work and fixed the glyphs.. funny how something so small can make such a big difference - http://i.imgur.com/6v1ZG.jpg
Edited by Boomstyck on 8/11/2011 1:49 PM PDT
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85 Night Elf Druid
7550
I'm looking at that site and having trouble figuring out how you got those numbers. Right now it's telling me to change things I'd converted to spirit into pure hit, which doesn't seem to make any sense. Sorry, I don't play with numbers very often so this is a little over my head. Thanks for your help :)
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90 Worgen Druid
10200
08/11/2011 04:25 PMPosted by Lanurai
I'm looking at that site and having trouble figuring out how you got those numbers. Right now it's telling me to change things I'd converted to spirit into pure hit, which doesn't seem to make any sense. Sorry, I don't play with numbers very often so this is a little over my head. Thanks for your help :)


Don't worry about when it says you should change a reforge that is X-> spirit to X -> hit. Where ever it says hit, you can assume spirit will be just fine.

Basically, once you've loaded yourself up, go to the very bottom of the page. On the left, where it says cap #1, you want it to say hit exactly to 1742. Once that is set, just click the optimize button. Where it lists the reforges, the right hand column is what it is suggesting you do. Again, where ever it says to reforge to hit, you can go ahead and just do spirit, assuming there isn't spirit on the gear already.

You can see what your total stats will be underneath where it lists the reforges. There are a list of stats in a row, with numbers underneath them. The row you want to look at is the "result" row, which will tell you how much of each stat you'll have after you reforge the way it is suggesting.
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85 Night Elf Druid
7550
Aha, got it :) Thanks, that definitely helps! I was trying to figure out where to drop those 20 extra points, lol. DPS went from 10.5k to about 12k... not a huge increase, but still nice. I'll have to re-read the section on rotations and figure out how to perfect that part. ^_^
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85 Troll Druid
10650
Can someone explain the math behind the haste break points with DI?

Cuz it says 21.7% = 12th tick... but in moonkin form and no DI im sitting at 24%... am i not getting the 12th tick without ng still?
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90 Troll Druid
11445
from EJ this is the formula

((2k-1)/(2nH) - 1) * R=required haste rating

k is the number of the tick we're trying to add
n is the default number of ticks for that spell
H is your haste factor from buffs (see below)
R is the haste rating conversion factor at level 85. It equals roughly 12,805.7.


Or alternatively use my math to figure out the # of ticks for a certain haste percentage or haste rating.

(((Haste Value)*(Raid Buff)*(DI-if you have it-)*(DoT Time))+1) / 2 = # of ticks

Where the haste value is in decimals(e.g. 23% haste=1.23) as well as any multipliers also in decimal form.

To find it using numbers just use Haste Value = 1+(Haste Rating/12805.7)
Edited by Tagartou on 8/14/2011 10:01 PM PDT
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90 Worgen Druid
10200
Can someone explain the math behind the haste break points with DI?

Cuz it says 21.7% = 12th tick... but in moonkin form and no DI im sitting at 24%... am i not getting the 12th tick without ng still?


Look at the stat values, not the percentages (I should prob just take those out...). You have 2326 haste. That means without DI that you'll have 13 ticks with NG and 11 without NG.
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90 Troll Druid
11445
08/14/2011 09:42 PMPosted by Eluial
(I should prob just take those out...)
I think those percentages are wrong....unless I am wrong 2322 haste=18.13% without moonkin and 24% haste with it, not the 21.7 you have quoted.

Edit: Wait, are those the percentages without the raid buff?
Edited by Tagartou on 8/14/2011 9:59 PM PDT
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90 Worgen Druid
10200
I think those percentages are wrong....unless I am wrong 2322 haste=18.13% without moonkin and 24% haste with it, not the 21.7 you have quoted.

Edit: Wait, are those the percentages without the raid buff?

It's supposed the be the percentage where the actual breakpoint is - you know how they come in between ticks? like, once you pass the haste needed for 1/2 a tick, you get the whole tick. But now that I'm looking at them, there's something funky going on.

The numbers under the DI columns definitely won't match up just going from rating to percentage, because it's the rating minus the haste from DI. But if you look at the first list, the non-NG ones do match up to the percentages. But now I feel like they're not supposed to, either. So I've totally confused myself.

But I'm also very tired right now. Maybe in the morning I'll remember why I wrote it up that way.
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90 Worgen Druid
10200
OK, I figured out what the numbers mean (nothing like reverse engineering stuff you wrote 8 months ago and didn't leave notes for yourself). And I have to say, I'm still not sure WHY I thought it was a good idea to include those percentages.

OK, so the formula to figure out haste% needed to get an addition dot (for moonkin) is

(((8.5 + n)/9) - 1) * 100 = haste%
n = the number of ticks you're trying to add

So herpyderp, let's figure out how much haste we need for 11 ticks without NG
(((8.5 + 2)/9) - 1) *100 = 16.67% ...and the post says 11.11%

But it ALSO says
Haste breakpoints where we gain extra DoT ticks (3/3 Genesis and Moonkin Form):

Meaning, it ASSUMES you already have moonkin form and doesn't need to account for it. So, let's get rid of it!
1.1667/1.05 = 1.1111 or 11.11% which is the % of haste you'll have outside of moonkin form if you have enough haste for 11 ticks without NG.

TL;DR - the percentages are stupid and confusing to people and I'm getting rid of them.
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90 Tauren Druid
11970
I'm doing Rag tonight and was wondering if I need to change any of my talents for the fight? I remember seeing somewhere that there is a talent or glyph that is really useful for the fight but I cannot remember where I saw it. Any ideas?
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