Ask The Devs #10 - Damage Dealing (Answers)

60 Draenei Death Knight
560
06/24/2011 12:03 PMPosted by Zumia
Did we really need 4 questions on shamans?


I don't mind at all that shaman had four questions answered. I do mind that mages, hunters and warlocks did not. I would think that in a dps ATD the pure dps classes would have taken priority.
85 Dwarf Priest
0
They completely missed the point on the role responsibility question and the answer actually makes me even more worried. "People who like responsibility play tanks/healers, so it's ok to pile on the responsibility there. But dps like to just have fun, so we make responsibility optional."

Sorry Blizzard, it's not actually fun to be responsible for people who are not responsible. If it's so unappealing to make dps responsible then why have mechanics that require it? And why does failing those mechanics impact the healer/tank more than the dps?
90 Blood Elf Rogue
11430
Small tweaks to rogue damage are welcome, and honestly needed as they stated, we don't pull comparable damage even when we don't have a lot of swapping to do. The issue does lie in ramp up time on any given target. Having to spend a significant amount of time doing sub-par damage on a new target doesn't punish us for deciding to switch, we really don't have much of a choice on swaps. It punishes the raid for bringing a rogue. Omnomtron we have to switch every time or we all die, Chogall usually requires we work on adds, Heroic Magamaw, where by the time I'm doing full dps on an add it is almost dead, and particularly Captain Planet (Twilight Council) where based on health percent we may be switching between the 2 targets consistently at long enough intervals that our poisons will likely wear off before swapping back. these swap mechanics are necessary to every fight and not swapping would likely result in your spot being filled by someone else.

I admit i don't know much about 4.2 encounters but something tells me Blizzard's design philosophy will keep encounters away from single target fights. A mechanic similar to soul swap, carrying over poisons and ruptures as well as combo points would certainly help the process, tho many theorycrafters would also argue that making DP last longer and stack shorter (say to 3) would help reduce the strain our damage takes when we fulfill our duty as DPS to swap to a priority target before it kills us all.
85 Blood Elf Warlock
0
So Warlock questions not answered:

http://us.battle.net/wow/en/forum/topic/2650315267?page=1

"Do you still feel that warlock single target damage is fine across all 3 specs considering the 12% damage reduction to most of the main offensive spells that happened shortly before launch of Cataclysm? I say this because I'm about as well geared as the rest of the ranged dps in my raiding group, and I feel like I'm having to work about 1.5 times as hard to get the same numbers, unless it's a fight with a primary target and a secondary target, which destruction and affliction can both be competitive."---Page 2

"GC wrote a watercooler blog about simplifying the rotations of dps classes awhile back. Is there anything in the works that aims to change the Warlock rotations? Currently we all use addons to watch the timers and to manage UI space for all the buttons and it would be nice if the default UI handled this."---page 5

"Are there any changes under consideration for Warlock pets? They each come with their own buffs and utility powers, but it's such a significant DPS loss to use a different demon than your spec's optimal one that it's rare to use anything else. And the poor Voidwalker really can't tank anything these days."---page 6

"Warlock damage in pvp is mind numbingly low compared to the 9 other classes. Not every warlock pvp's only in the 3v3 bracket, a lot of us absolutely love duels, battlegrounds and the 2s and 5s brackets. but with our current damage output its frustrating, discouraging and simply not fun. Are you aware of this and what are your plans on fixing this?"---page 6

"Only being able to deal damage is something that I know myself and many friends have talked about being something that is just a mess now, is there any possibility for blizzard to get rid of the pure classes and give mage, warlock, hunter, and rogue, a either tanking or healing tree because in the current state of the game the pure classes which can only deal damage are at a disadvantage since they are tunneled into one role?"--page 9

"how is a new affliction warlock supposed to know that shadow bolt is our intended filler (drain life is not on the 4pcs t12 bonus), when:
our spec description (A master of Shadow magic who specializes in fear, drains and damage-over-time spells)
soul siphon (affliction talent tier 2)
deaths embrace (affliction talent tier 5)
shadow embrace (affliction talent tier 4)
nightfall (affliction talent tier 5)
everlasting (affliction talent tier 5)
haunt (affliction talent tier 7)
our mastery (Potent Afflictions:Increases all periodic shadow damage you deal)
our pet (felhunter, shadow bite, plus an additional 30% damage for each of your damage over time effects on the target.)
dark intent (gains increased periodic damage
demon soul:fel hunter (Periodic shadow damage increased)
and our leveling and pvp experience (nobody uses a 3s cast shadowbolt there)

point at drain life, as opossed to:

one talent on the affliction tree (shadow embrace,shared with haunt and does not increase shadowbolt damage)
two on the destruction tree (bane, shadow and flame)
pointing at shadowbolt?"---page 11

There are more but those are highly rated and questions the majority of us have been asking. Now you guys see why we were upset to not have our issues even mentioned?

http://us.battle.net/wow/en/forum/topic/2483688404?page=4#74

^great example of the kinds of things we needed answered as posted by Werst in post #70.

85 Human Warlock
7065
Q: Could you find a way to give a sense of responsibility to damage dealers as much as tanks and healers already have in instances? – Raghnar (EU-FR)

Sadly this question ended up being too simple for its own good and Blizzard answered it as such. Was hoping more on the lines of mechanics that deal less damage and yet place a performance affecting debuff like the haste debuff on professor putricide.
What about Hunter's Freeze Trap?
Why can't we be like all the other classes and just target and cast?
Makes it sometimes impossible to CC a target in motion.
Edited by Nakirogg on 6/24/2011 12:19 PM PDT
85 Draenei Shaman
3460
They completely missed the point on the role responsibility question and the answer actually makes me even more worried. "People who like responsibility play tanks/healers, so it's ok to pile on the responsibility there. But dps like to just have fun, so we make responsibility optional."

Sorry Blizzard, it's not actually fun to be responsible for people who are not responsible. If it's so unappealing to make dps responsible then why have mechanics that require it? And why does failing those mechanics impact the healer/tank more than the dps?


now see this was more of an answer then what blizzard gave to the posted question! very good!
85 Tauren Warrior
1880
I think warlocks are the most over powered class in the game.

The are the REAL Dungeons and Dragons WIZARD Class in the Game.

Warlocks, don't really have problems, well the problems are warlocks need to be tuned down i think.

A warlock is the Spellcasting Demon Wizard class that can..

Drain life, Soul Link, and health stone, having Near Perfect Self-Healing capabilities....

Summon Pets, Control Demons, and also use spells to enhance demon pets and make them strong, and those demon pets can use powerful abilities...

Warlocks can deal decent AOE damage, via rain of Fire, seed of corruption, and Hand of Guldan. They also tend to be Very mobile when working with afflection, and somewhat with demonology. Destruction to, is pretty hampered i think...

Warlocks can give you breath water, summon health stone, summon allys, in addition to giving you see invisiblity to alchemist, as well..Well as...

AS WELL... Neutralizing enemies, like Fear, Horror Effects, in addition to Seduction to incapacitate an enemy. They also can tuant monsters off of themselves with Voidwalker or Doom Guard if planned right.

Yea Warlocks are Fine. You may not deal the best damage, but you have a Wizards Tool box of useful stuff to more then make up for you're "Lack" Of damage dealing numbers...
Edited by Gigahorn on 6/24/2011 12:46 PM PDT
85 Goblin Shaman
8805
I just think everybody at Blizz took their summer break at the same time.
85 Tauren Warrior
1880
They completely missed the point on the role responsibility question and the answer actually makes me even more worried. "People who like responsibility play tanks/healers, so it's ok to pile on the responsibility there. But dps like to just have fun, so we make responsibility optional."

Sorry Blizzard, it's not actually fun to be responsible for people who are not responsible. If it's so unappealing to make dps responsible then why have mechanics that require it? And why does failing those mechanics impact the healer/tank more than the dps?


I will march to Rogue encampment in Diablo 2 and hire 20 Archer Rogues.

Then i will buy them armor and equipment. They will "Put that to good Use"

Blizzard i demend on this warrior, to fill my screen with 20 pet bars. So i can tell the rogues what to do.

Problem solve / I have taken my own responsibility hehe : D
85 Orc Hunter
2840
As many have said, ZERO answers on the questions of concern for the Hunter community. Locks and Pallys didn't receive any either. Very disappointing.

It's interesting to see that the questions that were picked, 12 out of 500, were mainly about Shamans and background information. While it's interesting to see the thoughts on DPS meters and what is considered in class balance, serious questions were asked. There are some of us with serious questions, serious concerns and would like serious answers or, at least, a serious acknowledgement. We apparently go unnoticed. Some, with the desire for constructive thought and posting, get banned or the thread becomes deleted.

This gives us, the community, the sense that we are ignored, whether it's true or false. It's a big community and there's a lot of voices. But, there are some with constructive thought that are being pushed aside and quite frankly, it's frustrating.

I don't mean to sound rude, and please forgive me for sounding this way, but is it possible to get some kind of comment, or do we continue circling the world with these class issues that have been, respectfully, brought forward?
Edited by Bowjitsu on 6/24/2011 12:34 PM PDT
Wow. I may not always agree with Blizzard but I have always felt they were genuinely interested in interacting with the community. Only the questions regarding how dps is assessed and the viability of frost mages seemed to have any thought put into their answers.

If you did not want to deal with players trying to get their classes buffed that's fine. It's understandable. You probably read dozens such posts each day. However, there was a lot of questions brought up that did not fall in that category.

This was one of the most half-hearted efforts I have ever encountered on a Q&A from a gaming company. You did the damage dealing community and yourselves a disservice here, developers.







90 Night Elf Hunter
14875
I'm kind of disappointed that the role with the absolute most specs, that every class can do and some classes can only do, got such few answers. Honestly, with the sheer amount of specs and classes asking for answers in a Damage Dealing Q&A, there should be tons more responses.
85 Draenei Shaman
3460
I will march to Rogue encampment in Diablo 2 and hire 20 Archer Rogues.

Then i will buy them armor and equipment. They will "Put that to good Use"

Blizzard i demend on this warrior, to fill my screen with 20 pet bars. So i can tell the rogues what to do.

Problem solve / I have taken my own responsibility hehe : D


so what your saying is its never the fault of dps at all? so its always the fault of the tank or the healer when a target that was killing your healer (adds) and you do nothing to cc the target(s) group wipes you blame the tank cuse they didn't pick up adds yea i could never see you raiding my friend! lets say heroic grimbotal first boss purple trog what you do just sit there and not cc the target you just let him go over to the boss wipe the group cuse the tank takes increased damage and boss dose increased damage and there are more purple trogs cuse of it very smart idea too bad it dont work! lol
85 Tauren Death Knight
3975
Questions were probably cut short due to the admitted failure of the process.
85 Troll Druid
6670
What about Hunter's Freeze Trap?
Why can't we be like all the other classes and just target and cast?
Makes it sometimes impossible to CC a target in motion.

Just like with my Mushrooms, you need to estimate where they're going to be. Except, I need to do it three times, only once you for (though, Hunter Trap Launcher is hit or miss).

As for this thread. Great answers, bad questions, for the most part.
51 Worgen Rogue
510
06/24/2011 09:01 AMPosted by Kaivax
While some specs may do slightly higher damage than other specs within a given class, the differences aren’t so great that you’d really be holding your group back if you played your favorite talent tree instead of the one with the highest DPS logs. In almost all cases, individual skill, gear, encounter specifics and Internet lag will have a bigger effect on your DPS than your spec choice (and often your class). Seriously, try Frost mages. Try Subtlety rogues. Their DPS is honestly pretty competitive.


Some thought on Subtlety Rogue's and why its not seen as a viable raid spec. This might be one of those
06/24/2011 09:01 AMPosted by Kaivax
It’s also possible that some aspect of our testing doesn’t catch some factor that ends up suppressing Frost damage in the “real world” compared to our internal servers. That certainly happens sometimes.
Moments

Rotation: Both assassination and combat have way more reasonable rotations than sub. In fact sometime you have to focus so hard on what you doing you tunnel vision. This takes your attention off of whats going on in the raid, and if your progressing is just not worth it. The Subtlety rotation is impossible to maintain without a 5 point Rupture, you have about a 15 sec window to refresh Rupture to with a 5 CP Evis (because the talent is only 20% per CP) While maintaining SnD and Recup. Most ppl would pool energy around 3-4 CP because of HaT then use a finisher and dump any extra energy with backstab. At this point your looking at a 4 second window to come up with a 5 CP Evis and gain the CP's needed to refresh Recup or SnD. I wont even get into trying to manage this while including trinket procs and pots.

Position: Again Backstab, Ambush, Shadowstep, and Shadow Dance are all used for maximal dps output and are dps is suffers a severe loss if these are rendered useless do to fight mechanics and boss positioning.


Error rate: While most sims show sub to be comparably to other classes. It is in fact not the case. Subs rotation must be near perfect to sustain decent dps. Again going back to rotation. The harder the fight mechanic are the harder that rotation is. Trying to keep track of fire. chain lighting range and or orbs/cutters leave little room to pump out a perfect rotation.

AOE: LOL..... Really

Talents: While Enveloping Shadows, Cheat Death and Waylay are great talents to have, but you will incur a dps loss by picking up any of these.

Just My two coppers worth.
Edited by Sneakñpeak on 6/24/2011 12:45 PM PDT
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