Holy Paladin: Mastery

85 Blood Elf Paladin
11145
-Jose, GTFO out of Jubei-Thos while you still can. I've never LFG'd with anyone ever good there. For me. For you. For us, get out while you still can.


Jubei'thos is a good realm. You just seem to get all the !!!@wits from here. I'm Australian so any realm not oceanic = bad for me.

I guess you've been getting people from guilds who think they are good but aren't >.>


07/14/2011 01:15 AMPosted by Practical
I'm interested in hearing how other Paladins are managing their mana with this makeup.


I keep judgment on CD and try to play my mana really well. The tank rarely spikes! Only for 25. I think 10 man would have to be more versitile. They can't have one healer be the Raw HPS and another to keep the buffer up to prevent the tank from spiking.



07/14/2011 01:15 AMPosted by Practical
-It goes against geming/itemization design. Blizzard doesn't want us stacking mastery like this. I don't think they want anyone stacking mastery like this. Hell, even shamans have a "Meet this haste cap" going on for them.


I don't stack Mastery atm for Elo's build
You'd want 200 more combat regen than Elo unless you have shard, if you have shard you can have 2k regen.
You need about 760ish haste from gear to get a 2 second cast for HL.
Rest into Crit or Mastery.

But it is always Int before Mastery at the moment. I don't thiink anyone has gone into Zaroua's build yet and tested it because to me it seems a bit too radical.
Edited by Josémourinho on 7/14/2011 1:23 AM PDT
85 Blood Elf Paladin
11145
Another set of logs

Didn't run oom. Looks like Elo's theory that we over-value spirit too much even from the legitmate version more.

http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/rt-a52y88c5byo7i9jw/
85 Blood Elf Paladin
10675
Have you guys noticed if what tank you are healing makes a difference?

I did some minor reforging to try Mastery, and at first I thought it was failing miserably. I don't know if it was actually failing, or it just felt like I was. But I was using as many DLs as I had before while not being able to keep my mana up and the tank was still spiking crazily.

Then I switched and was healing a lesser geared druid (from a warrior). I need to talk with our warrior about how he's gearing, but it was like night and day. The druid had 20k less health, but was infinitely easier to keep up with mostly HLs while tanking Riplimb. And then last night clearing some old content for achieves, it was still noticeably easier to heal the same druid vs the same warrior (not that either were terribly difficult).

I don't know if it's just that the druid was taking 23k melee's from Cho'gal, while the warrior was taking 30k unblocked or what. I mean, he only missed blocking 8 attacks. But it just felt totally different and like having mastery worked much better with a druid tank.
100 Dwarf Paladin
21590
http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/rt-pqcjxpqj9w2ur9cg/sum/healingDone/?s=15583&e=15889

We started our first H Bale attempts tonight and mana is holding out perfectly fine. I ended that attempt (longest of the night) at half mana, though I'm just taking care of one of the Torment crystals.

Also, single target healing on the Beacon target seems like a HUGE waste on H Baleroc. 1) I'm not needed healing the tank. 2) There are only 4 healers so freeing up a healer on Torment stacks is huge. 3) Did I mention that I did not need to watch tanks?

Completely unrelated note: CROSS-REALM REAL ID GROUPING! /squeel
Edited by Eloderung on 7/14/2011 7:46 AM PDT
85 Dwarf Paladin
5175
http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/rt-pqcjxpqj9w2ur9cg/sum/healingDone/?s=15583&e=15889

We started our first H Bale attempts tonight and mana is holding out perfectly fine. I ended that attempt (longest of the night) at half mana, though I'm just taking care of one of the Torment crystals.

Also, single target healing on the Beacon target seems like a HUGE waste on H Baleroc. 1) I'm not needed healing the tank. 2) There are only 4 healers so freeing up a healer on Torment stacks is huge. 3) Did I mention that I did not need to watch tanks?

Completely unrelated note: CROSS-REALM REAL ID GROUPING! /squeel


So what are you doing, just throwing beacon on the tank and leaving it? It's the morning and I'm still running slow.

And yes, as of right now I've had no problems with reforging out of spirit. I wonder if you have to hit a certain gear level to do it. I think it makes our playstyle much less reactive and more proactive. The only downfall - once a tank hits 30-40% you may have to throw a FoL instead of a DL just to make sure.

And as far as your unrelated note, where did you see this? I hadn't seen anything official or on MMO-C.

EDIT - looks like a ninja implement. Nice.
Edited by Adornus on 7/14/2011 8:07 AM PDT
100 Dwarf Paladin
21590
So what are you doing, just throwing beacon on the tank and leaving it? It's the morning and I'm still running slow.


Other than the occasional Holy Shock on the tank to proc the healing buff, correct.
90 Human Warrior
10380
3) Did I mention that I did not need to watch tanks?


Does the transferred heal from beacon get the benefits from Vital Flame?
100 Dwarf Paladin
21590
07/14/2011 09:10 AMPosted by Duese
3) Did I mention that I did not need to watch tanks?


Does the transferred heal from beacon get the benefits from Vital Flame?


Of Course. Holy Light hits Torment target for 10k, and its corresponding Beacon xfer hits the Beacon target for 100k or however many stacks I end up with during the fight. It works exactly the same as any other +heal% buff that doesn't globally affect personal heals, such as Guardian Spirit, Mortal Strike, and tank +% healing to self talents.

Hence my comment about not using Beacon being stupid on this fight. We could replace our druid and shaman in that fight with a paladin and we would have the same overall throughput with three healers as we did with four. We'll probably three-heal the fight tonight if we run into enrage issues and our other pally is stable tonight.
Edited by Eloderung on 7/14/2011 9:46 AM PDT
90 Human Warrior
10380
07/14/2011 09:44 AMPosted by Eloderung


Does the transferred heal from beacon get the benefits from Vital Flame?


Of Course. Holy Light hits Torment target for 10k, and its corresponding Beacon xfer hits the Beacon target for 100k or however many stacks I end up with during the fight. It works exactly the same as any other +heal% buff that doesn't globally affect personal heals, such as Guardian Spirit, Mortal Strike, and tank +% healing to self talents.

Hence my comment about not using Beacon being stupid on this fight. We could replace our druid and shaman in that fight with a paladin and we would have the same overall throughput with three healers as we did with four. We'll probably three-heal the fight tonight if we run into enrage issues and our other pally is stable tonight.


Well that changes things a bit. I just confirmed it in our logs from last night. I guess I should have researched that a little bit more.
100 Dwarf Paladin
21590



Of Course. Holy Light hits Torment target for 10k, and its corresponding Beacon xfer hits the Beacon target for 100k or however many stacks I end up with during the fight. It works exactly the same as any other +heal% buff that doesn't globally affect personal heals, such as Guardian Spirit, Mortal Strike, and tank +% healing to self talents.

Hence my comment about not using Beacon being stupid on this fight. We could replace our druid and shaman in that fight with a paladin and we would have the same overall throughput with three healers as we did with four. We'll probably three-heal the fight tonight if we run into enrage issues and our other pally is stable tonight.


Well that changes things a bit. I just confirmed it in our logs from last night. I guess I should have researched that a little bit more.


Here's hint #2 that even a large number of high-end guilds tend to miss: the buff affects absorbs. Our PW:S was absorbing for 260k last night.

http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/rt-pqcjxpqj9w2ur9cg/details/3/?s=15583&e=15889

Definitely silly to use a ToR strict Beacon paladin in this fight, imo. Fortunately, the low spirit high mastery/crit build still works out quite well for Torment healing and you still have occasional tank burst power available to spare (not that it's needed if the fight is done properly). Unless things drastically change in the final minute of the fight healing-wise, of course...
Edited by Eloderung on 7/14/2011 11:04 AM PDT
85 Dwarf Paladin
5175



Does the transferred heal from beacon get the benefits from Vital Flame?


Of Course. Holy Light hits Torment target for 10k, and its corresponding Beacon xfer hits the Beacon target for 100k or however many stacks I end up with during the fight. It works exactly the same as any other +heal% buff that doesn't globally affect personal heals, such as Guardian Spirit, Mortal Strike, and tank +% healing to self talents.

Hence my comment about not using Beacon being stupid on this fight. We could replace our druid and shaman in that fight with a paladin and we would have the same overall throughput with three healers as we did with four. We'll probably three-heal the fight tonight if we run into enrage issues and our other pally is stable tonight.


But you can't gain stacks of vital spark if you gain vital flame, can you? How often to you throw a HS over on the tank then? Every 30 seconds or so?
Edited by Adornus on 7/14/2011 11:11 AM PDT
10 Human Rogue
0
Elo, I'm curious about the beacon xfer.

Of Course. Holy Light hits Torment target for 10k, and its corresponding Beacon xfer hits the Beacon target for 100k or however many stacks I end up with during the fight. It works exactly the same as any other +heal% buff that doesn't globally affect personal heals, such as Guardian Spirit, Mortal Strike, and tank +% healing to self talents.


From the quote, I'm assuming that it was your turn to heal the torment targets, build up vital spark and your beacon was on MT. So the question is:

- Does the beacon xfer proc vital flame? If it does, wouldn't this prevent you from stacking up vital sparks?

- Or does the beacon xfer simply heal as if vital flame is up but in fact not (since you aren't directly healing blaze of glory tank)?

EDIT: The log for 260k absorb is private I think, can't view it =(

I'm not sure if someone mentioned this on previous pages or not. But we can use Soul Casket instead of TB trinket for mastery heavy build. The on-use is quite nice to offset DP's effect. It is also on a 2min cd, the same as DP's cd.
Edited by Fireflame on 7/14/2011 1:13 PM PDT
85 Blood Elf Paladin
9225
07/14/2011 07:34 AMPosted by Eloderung
Completely unrelated note: CROSS-REALM REAL ID GROUPING! /squeel


@Elo, Jose, Riot, ADD ME ON REALIDTHISINSTANT.
100 Blood Elf Paladin
12880
07/14/2011 01:15 AMPosted by Practical
For a while Riot your name/guild wasn't showing


Yeah, I think Blizz was giving me Shadowform for a bit, but all is well now. It had me worried, though.

07/14/2011 01:15 AMPosted by Practical
It wasn't bad. But it wasn't absolutely amazing either. With the Haste set I feel more versatile. I feel like I can be more effective (subjectively here, I know that IH/Mastery stacking is numerically superior for tank healing).


I think this build can work in 10m, but my subjective assessment is in line with yours, overall, in regards to 10m. I tested my current build on Rag 10m, and was really happy with how it performed. I should have respecc'd, for sure, but it didn't matter in the end. I have also been very pleased with its performance in 25m as well. I'll run it for a few more weeks, and make a decision at that time. If you are going to reset your build back to Haste, Practical, might I recommend a slight detour? The build I am using may not work for you in your raids, but if you are in the experimenting mood, you might as well try them all.

I really miss my Core of Ripeness, though =/

Riôt
100 Blood Elf Paladin
12880
07/14/2011 11:38 AMPosted by Practical
Completely unrelated note: CROSS-REALM REAL ID GROUPING! /squeel


@Elo, Jose, Riot, ADD ME ON REALIDTHISINSTANT.


Lol, how do I do this without your email?

Riôt
100 Human Paladin
14550
Subrosian, you just made healing sound like topology (the branch of mathematics).

I think it's definitely better to have nonspecific assignments for disc, to get the absorbs where they're needed. Holy paladins with mastery should aim specifically for people currently taking damage due to the way our mastery works. Which is why not directly healing the tank is a good idea. Holy Paladins spot healing the raid with HL, and can direct heal the tank if the tank dips low. The tank is usually where I throw my WoG (but more often than not, I use LoD on the raid instead).
90 Human Paladin
9960
@Eloderung

I notice that in the SS of logs you posted you are running 5-6 heals max. In a guild where there are typically 6-7 healers, would you think your mastery/crit builds would hold up againt haste builds?
85 Blood Elf Paladin
10845
@Eloderung

I notice that in the SS of logs you posted you are running 5-6 heals max. In a guild where there are typically 6-7 healers, would you think your mastery/crit builds would hold up againt haste builds?


If anything, the value of absorbs vs direct heals probably increases the more healers you have, because absorbs register before direct healing and prevent the damage from being taken. With more healers, there is likely to be more shields and HoTs and direct heals flying around sniping your own direct healing, making mitigation superior.
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