Holy Paladin: Mastery

90 Human Paladin
9960
07/17/2011 07:23 PMPosted by Fillarha


mastery is gewd

In organized 25 mans where you can specialize.


perhaps in 10m HM it doesn't work? worked beautifully on 10m rag/domo
90 Human Paladin
9960
http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/0kjzfoj10p2kb1we/

H Baleroc kill log now public for those interested.


so you are beaconing the tank and healing tormet targets...how are you building stacks and getting the bonus heal from vital flame?

On the kill you had 88 vital spark triggers and 14 vital flame triggers.

Do you have a rotation for this?

In comparison, the priest only had 64 vital spark triggers and 19 vital flame triggers.

I ask out of curiosity, it will be a few weeks b4 this boss is on our plate
85 Blood Elf Paladin
11145
http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/0kjzfoj10p2kb1we/

H Baleroc kill log now public for those interested.


so you are beaconing the tank and healing tormet targets...how are you building stacks and getting the bonus heal from vital flame?

On the kill you had 88 vital spark triggers and 14 vital flame triggers.

Do you have a rotation for this?

In comparison, the priest only had 64 vital spark triggers and 19 vital flame triggers.

I ask out of curiosity, it will be a few weeks b4 this boss is on our plate


He stated 2 pages ago.
He beacons the tank and heals the tormented targets.
When it is his turn to heal the tank, he holy shocks the tank and heals the tormented targets. The beacon transfers the full amount + healing buff to the tank.
85 Dwarf Paladin
5175
Here's a log from our Majordomo kill tonight. Apparently we keep having log issues and none of our other fights were uploaded. IH came in at 11.1% of my healing. Take a look at my stats. I reforged back into some spirit for comfort. I will say that I'm not having any issues with the lack of haste.

http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/cqn8ppdk2r242pq9/sum/healingDone/?s=6972&e=7343

This has been a great read, albeit very long. I read all 23 pages, and am thinking of tinkering with a +mastery build. I only raid 10s, so I clearly cannot take it to the extreme that Zaroua did, but I will probably drop some haste and spirit for mastery. We are not in HMs yet, pretty light raid schedule of 9hrs total a week. +Mastery should help on Rag though.

Again, good read and keep it up.


That's about our raid schedule. We raid 2 nights a week and for four hours a night. I've been happy so far with the new build. I've reforged mostly out of spirit with a couple pieces not reforged. They key is to find your balance.
Edited by Adornus on 7/18/2011 11:41 PM PDT
90 Human Paladin
9960


so you are beaconing the tank and healing tormet targets...how are you building stacks and getting the bonus heal from vital flame?

On the kill you had 88 vital spark triggers and 14 vital flame triggers.

Do you have a rotation for this?

In comparison, the priest only had 64 vital spark triggers and 19 vital flame triggers.

I ask out of curiosity, it will be a few weeks b4 this boss is on our plate


He stated 2 pages ago.
He beacons the tank and heals the tormented targets.
When it is his turn to heal the tank, he holy shocks the tank and heals the tormented targets. The beacon transfers the full amount + healing buff to the tank.


I totally missed that, thanks for pointing it out.

Has anyone considered what a mastery/crit model of healing does to the value of our 4pc? In the spirit/haste build, the 4pc looked borderline OP with the amt of DL we were casting. Now with slower more efficient heals, this would devalue the 4pc it would seem
85 Dwarf Paladin
7025
07/19/2011 10:48 AMPosted by Gríffith
Has anyone considered what a mastery/crit model of healing does to the value of our 4pc? In the spirit/haste build, the 4pc looked borderline OP with the amt of DL we were casting. Now with slower more efficient heals, this would devalue the 4pc it would seem
Be careful how you lump the stats together. This "Mastery / Crit" model you're referring to, is it the low Spirit build being talked about here? If it is, I suggest you don't call it a "Mastery / Crit" build, it is low Spirit / high Mastery, Crit, and Haste.

And the "Spirit / Haste" build you're talking about - is that the old standard build pre-4.2? In other words, "Haste stacking".

There is another build here, the "Mastery stacking" build, where you stack Mastery as high as possible at the cost of all other stats.

It really, really peeves me when people use incorrect descriptive names for things.

Mastery/Crit - Literally just means using Mastery and Crit. There are a number of different possible meanings for this.
Haste/Spirit - Literally just means using Haste and Spirit. There are a number of different possible meanings for this as well.

These are not the only two gearing methods.

---

As far as your actual question goes I feel that all builds benefit pretty strongly from the 4 piece bonus. The healing done is a percentage of the heal cast, it affects all three of our primary heals equally, there really is not distinction. The only difference is the lack of Mastery from that healing. I seriously doubt the 4 piece is a high enough percentage of overall healing that a further percentage lost from the lack of Mastery is going to be significant at all.

Does the Mastery stacking build benefit less? Technically, yes, but it is FAR from enough incentive to have any affect on gearing choices. The 4 piece is good enough to take regardless of your gearing method, and weak enough that it should not impact your decision on which method of gearing you use.
Edited by Rabel on 7/19/2011 2:00 PM PDT
45 Draenei Shaman
450

In organized 25 mans where you can specialize.


perhaps in 10m HM it doesn't work? worked beautifully on 10m rag/domo

Rag, Shannox and Baleroc are the exceptions to the rule. The shield is pretty amazing for those fights.
90 Human Paladin
9960
07/19/2011 01:58 PMPosted by Rabel
And the "Spirit / Haste" build you're talking about - is that the old standard build pre-4.2? In other words, "Haste stacking


yes. was there a viable build other than this pre 4.2?



07/19/2011 01:58 PMPosted by Rabel
Mastery/Crit - Literally just means using Mastery and Crit. There are a number of different possible meanings for this


no it doesn't. Mastery/Crit are secondary stats for a holy paladin. It is assumed Int is our #1 stat. I have not once mentioned the all mastery build the OP was advocating and instead have directed almost all my attention and posts in this thread toward eloderung and others using int>master>crit with low spirit/hast

I guess my real question is this: Using this build means we are casting more holy lights than Divine lights. We are also casting those heals much slower than a build with haste stacking. Is it going to be worth it to forgo the T12(4pc, not 2pc) pieces with haste and use off set pieces which have more mastery/crit? This is not an HPS question, but more of a "effective use of the gearing/gemming/reforging" that we do with int>mastery/crit low spirit/haste build
90 Human Paladin
6135
What it comes down to if Mastery or hast is better for you is 2 things.....YOU>>>and>>>>Your raid comp.

After reading this website http://blessingofkings.blogspot.com/ I desided to try a mastery build.

There are three main ways to build a paladin

. Intellect > Spirit > Haste > Crit > Mastery

The standard build from 4.1. It's still the best build if you have to raid heal, and is also the most versatile build.

2. Mastery > Intellect > Spirit > Haste > Crit

The ultimate single-tank healing build. Insanely large mastery shields buffer the tank's health. Probably only viable in 25-man raiding with good raid healers to cover for you.

3. Intellect > Mastery > Crit > Haste > Spirit

Eloderung of Eternal Reign is touting this build. He says that it is a very strong two-tank Beacon healing build. It relies a bit more on Holy Light, and takes advantage of all three new mechanics: 100% HL transfer through Beacon, 200% crits, and a stronger mastery. Unlike build 2, this is likely a viable build for 10-mans.


My self I went for the bottom build...I kinda went for more spirit then haste..

My HPS and over all healing went up...the play style is different...ALOT...but it worked great for me and I enjoy it alot.

Best of luck for people who want to try it ...it is different, fun and works great (for some)
90 Human Paladin
6135

I guess my real question is this: Using this build means we are casting more holy lights than Divine light


Yes with higher crit chance I find HL healing does alot more then it used to as well as the bouble....Mastery crit build makes HL heal more.. I use that as my main heal now...DL when needed HS and WOG used when I can..

One key point I found with this build that you NEED TO KNOW.....over healing with HL is IMPORTANT for the mastery build (on a tank)...that way u still getting your bouble on there...

at best times if i HL WOG and 2 HS i put a 20k bouble on in that rotation with out crits....(i dont waist WOG on overhealing)

again works for me tanks dont die....it does feel really weird when u first try Mastery build.
100 Draenei Paladin
19975
Isn't mastery limited simply because it will never be higher than 1/3 of your total health? So are all these builds about stacking that shield faster? How do you take into account boss swing timers, adds, or do you go for the lulls? Is it even worth the mana cast and honestly reading these comments it seems like those who do mastery builds run with people who do little to no mistakes.

Of course this is just my opinion and from a first look it also seems more work. To find the balance and stacking the shield faster(that is the point right since it doesn't go over 1/3 of your health. For most paladins that is roughly a 45k to 50k shield full stacked). Now if it works then hey its worth a try but for me honestly I don't see how you people make it work.

Well whatever works right?


Mastery shield cap is a complete and 100% non-issue on every fight except those with massive +heal mechanics (Baleroc, H Domo). It's not an issue on Domo because you can sneeze on your tank and he will be healed to full, making absorbs on your tank more or less pointless. On Baleroc it's still very strong because paladins heal Torment and not tanks ideally.

Think about it for just a moment. If you're in a situation where you can stack 170k worth of overhealing into a tank before he next takes damage, you're much better off stacking strength gems, respeccing ret, and contributing to dps while keeping the tank alive solely through WoG.

It also seems you are relying on other healers more too. These are just my observations and my opinion. Feel free to disagree. Then again while I got no bosses down yet(guild isn't ready) trying to find pugs for some.


Pure Mastery build, yes. It's support and that is working as intended.

Crit/haste as dual tank support, same as above.

Although Mastery/crit shares elements of a support build, after having done H Baleroc I can say with confidence that it's just as strong at "backbone tank healing" as any other paladin build.
Edited by Eloderung on 7/19/2011 10:28 PM PDT
85 Dwarf Paladin
5175
Ok, so I have finally come to a spot where this build hasn't been optimal for me in 10m: Heroic Lord Rhyolith. Granted, it's not the worst, but I think I'd rather have a haste/spirit build for this fight, especially since you two heal it. There seems to be a ton of raid damage going out and it's a big drain on mana. I'll probably just throw my Tsunami back on for this fight to help regen a little bit.

Other than that, it still seems to be performing the same as my other build. It works great when you have to three heal a fight, but will fall behind a little bit on two-healing fights. I'm actually surprised how many fights this tier they decided to go with two-healing.
91 Blood Elf Paladin
7335
As far as your actual question goes I feel that all builds benefit pretty strongly from the 4 piece bonus. The healing done is a percentage of the heal cast, it affects all three of our primary heals equally, there really is not distinction. The only difference is the lack of Mastery from that healing. I seriously doubt the 4 piece is a high enough percentage of overall healing that a further percentage lost from the lack of Mastery is going to be significant at all.

Does the Mastery stacking build benefit less? Technically, yes, but it is FAR from enough incentive to have any affect on gearing choices. The 4 piece is good enough to take regardless of your gearing method, and weak enough that it should not impact your decision on which method of gearing you use.

The 4-piece bonus will benefit Zaroua's style less than the normal style, because it cannot proc on the original heal target and there is often not going to be anyone else within eight yards of the tank he's tunnel visioning.
90 Human Warrior
10380
Funny story. We killed Alysrazor tonight and during the burn phase I was spamming Exo among other things... I kept seeing misses.

After the fight, I had one of those *smackhead* moments. I didn't bother to look at my 1 point in enlightened judgements only giving me 50% spirit>hit and no longer being spell hit capped.

100 Draenei Paladin
19975
Funny story. We killed Alysrazor tonight and during the burn phase I was spamming Exo among other things... I kept seeing misses.

After the fight, I had one of those *smackhead* moments. I didn't bother to look at my 1 point in enlightened judgements only giving me 50% spirit>hit and no longer being spell hit capped.


That's the worst part about this build. I'm running with a 20 yard Judge range to avoid 1% miss on my Judges.
85 Blood Elf Paladin
6925
Funny story. We killed Alysrazor tonight and during the burn phase I was spamming Exo among other things... I kept seeing misses.

After the fight, I had one of those *smackhead* moments. I didn't bother to look at my 1 point in enlightened judgements only giving me 50% spirit>hit and no longer being spell hit capped.


That's the worst part about this build. I'm running with a 20 yard Judge range to avoid 1% miss on my Judges.


The only time the judgement range of this build has hurt me this tier is Majordomo cat phase. It's juuuuuust not quite far enough, i play footsie with the golden circle, timing it as he leaps for someone else, so as to not doom our poor melee with my daredevil tapdancing to judge for mana >:D

Most other fights you're close enough to the boss, or you can find a stray add to hit (Ryolith, Belithac, Alyzrazor)
Edited by Ashleyriot on 7/22/2011 9:37 AM PDT
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