Holy Paladin: Mastery

85 Blood Elf Paladin
11145


That's the worst part about this build. I'm running with a 20 yard Judge range to avoid 1% miss on my Judges.


The only time the judgement range of this build has hurt me this tier is Majordomo cat phase. It's juuuuuust not quite far enough, i play footsie with the golden circle, timing it as he leaps for someone else, so as to not doom our poor melee with my daredevil tapdancing to judge for mana >:D

Most other fights you're close enough to the boss, or you can find a stray add to hit (Ryolith, Belithac, Alyzrazor)


I duck in and out in between leaps to judge and run back. It'll save you alot of time.
90 Human Warrior
10380
I've been running a 15 yard judgement range this entire expansion and it's really not be too big of a deal. I think I will put that second point in enlightened judgements now so that I can remain hit capped. It's just trying to figure out where to pull the point out of.

I get such good returns from putting that 1 point in Blessed Life that I really don't want to take it out of there. I get more from that than I do from ToR, so I might as well just take a point out of that.

I will say that I did cause some interesting placement on a kitty leap on domo last night which got me some angry messages. Just slightly off center =)
85 Dwarf Paladin
5175
I've been running a 15 yard judgement range this entire expansion and it's really not be too big of a deal. I think I will put that second point in enlightened judgements now so that I can remain hit capped. It's just trying to figure out where to pull the point out of.

I get such good returns from putting that 1 point in Blessed Life that I really don't want to take it out of there. I get more from that than I do from ToR, so I might as well just take a point out of that.

I will say that I did cause some interesting placement on a kitty leap on domo last night which got me some angry messages. Just slightly off center =)


I run one point in improved judgements and one point in enlightened judgements. I think this gives me a 25 yard range. It has the occassional OoR moments, but for the most part works fairly well.
90 Human Warrior
10380
I run one point in improved judgements and one point in enlightened judgements. I think this gives me a 25 yard range. It has the occassional OoR moments, but for the most part works fairly well.


I don't want to take the point out of Last Word though. On more than one occasion, my WoG has been one of my biggest heals and it's incredibly nice having an 80%+ chance of critting on a low health tank for a 70k+ heal.
85 Dwarf Paladin
5175
07/22/2011 11:11 AMPosted by Duese
I run one point in improved judgements and one point in enlightened judgements. I think this gives me a 25 yard range. It has the occassional OoR moments, but for the most part works fairly well.


I don't want to take the point out of Last Word though. On more than one occasion, my WoG has been one of my biggest heals and it's incredibly nice having an 80%+ chance of critting on a low health tank for a 70k+ heal.


Yeah, that is true. I've actually gone back and forth on that as well. I actually debated on taking a point from ToR on more than one occasion. I've also seen people take a point out of PotI. Crusade may not be a bad choice either.
Edited by Adornus on 7/22/2011 11:21 AM PDT
90 Human Warrior
10380
I look through my logs and every time I wonder why I even have points in ToR. I get MAYBE 2-3 HP from ToR on most fights. On a lot of fights, I get 0 return from it.

Needless to say, dropping points that buff holy shock wouldn't be a great idea in my opinion.
85 Draenei Paladin
2420
Just want to say, this is an AMAZING thread and I'm definitely going to try dropping a little Haste and Spirit for more Mastery.

07/22/2011 11:52 AMPosted by Duese
I look through my logs and every time I wonder why I even have points in ToR. I get MAYBE 2-3 HP from ToR on most fights. On a lot of fights, I get 0 return from it.


It's more of a 10 man talent, I get a lot of mileage out of it personally.
90 Human Warrior
10380
It's more of a 10 man talent, I get a lot of mileage out of it personally.


I pretty much only run 10 man nowadays thanks to the lockout change. (Yes, I'm bitter about that.)

In a 1 tank fight, we typically dot/hot up the tank and between that and beacon, most of the healing is covered short of a few heals that get tossed out typically by the druid in our raid keeping up LB and whatnot. In a 2 tank fight, I throw the beacon on the opposite tank.

In other words, I'm typically rarely directly healing the beacon.

With the mastery build though, I'm finding myself targeting people with mastery shields that are about to wear off more than anything. LoD turns into my +15 second duration on everyone's shield rather than being actual healing.
100 Blood Elf Paladin
12630
07/22/2011 12:41 PMPosted by Duese
With the mastery build though, I'm finding myself targeting people with mastery shields that are about to wear off more than anything. LoD turns into my +15 second duration on everyone's shield rather than being actual healing.


I too, am starting to look at LoD in this manner, and I'm trying really hard to resist that particular temptation.

If I looked at the correct logs, both of the other healers in your raids are...in need of some improvement. If what you are doing is working in that kind of environment, that speaks very well about how well it might work in an environment where you aren't carrying the rest of the healers at all, let alone by that kind of margin. Again, this parapraph means nothing if I was looking at the wrong logs.

I really like the playstyle that Eloderung seems to be doing...just wish I was in a position to fully utilize it.

Riôt
85 Blood Elf Paladin
7840
Switched to a mastery/crit build this week. Ran with 28% mastery shields and only 984 haste. I have typically been a haste/spirit pally. Reforged Spirit to Mastery or Crit on each piece. Didn't regem everything, since i was just trying it out.

Killed 3/7HM this week using this build - finally dropping H-Baleroc (which is a frustrating fight to heal on 10man btw).

I have to say, the haste loss wasn't as bad as i thought it would be. My casts buffed were 1.96sec instead of the hasted 1.84 with the previous build. The increased Crit was very noticible and nice, but as we all know - random.

Mana management took a bit more watching - but wasnt bad even when 2 healing a mana-sucking fight like H-Baleroc.

Elo touched on this, but there is definitely a difference in flexibility needed for 10 mans. There was a few times that I wanted a little more haste, but the extra EH you get from mastery at 28% of each direct cast was nearly game changing.

So, my 2 cents from a 10m pally healing HM's, Mastery/Crit is absolutely worth the loss of Spirit. I felt a bit slow on some raid healing, so I am going to go with a build that gives me 25% Mastery shields and 1340 haste. I think this balance will be just right for HM progression on most if not all of the fights...
45 Draenei Shaman
450
07/21/2011 08:29 PMPosted by Eloderung
That's the worst part about this build. I'm running with a 20 yard Judge range to avoid 1% miss on my Judges.

Why don't you just drop the point in dispel and pick up Imp Judge?
90 Human Warrior
10380
If I looked at the correct logs, both of the other healers in your raids are...in need of some improvement. If what you are doing is working in that kind of environment, that speaks very well about how well it might work in an environment where you aren't carrying the rest of the healers at all, let alone by that kind of margin. Again, this parapraph means nothing if I was looking at the wrong logs.


The druid gets better when we 2 heal which hasn't been often enough because our 3rd healer has a bit of a subpar dps spec and we have a couple people pushing out some pretty strong DPS to make up for it.
85 Blood Elf Paladin
10845
Funny story. We killed Alysrazor tonight and during the burn phase I was spamming Exo among other things... I kept seeing misses.

After the fight, I had one of those *smackhead* moments. I didn't bother to look at my 1 point in enlightened judgements only giving me 50% spirit>hit and no longer being spell hit capped.


That's the worst part about this build. I'm running with a 20 yard Judge range to avoid 1% miss on my Judges.


Why wouldn't you just drop the talent point from Sacred Cleansing to get Judgement range up to 30 yards seeing that you don't really need to dispel anything in Firelands anyway?

I personally can't stand having below a 35 yard range on judgement. I also question the value of a 2nd point in Last Word. I don't really see that there are that many situations where both WoG is a better option than LoD and there is a <35% HP raid member to use it on. It just feels to me like a really situational thing where it might happen 2-3 times a fight, and then only gives you a 30% chance to crit when it does happen. I personally would rather that talent point be in either Blessed Life or Improved Judgement.
100 Dwarf Paladin
21010
I personally can't stand having below a 35 yard range on judgement. I also question the value of a 2nd point in Last Word. I don't really see that there are that many situations where both WoG is a better option than LoD and there is a <35% HP raid member to use it on. It just feels to me like a really situational thing where it might happen 2-3 times a fight, and then only gives you a 30% chance to crit when it does happen. I personally would rather that talent point be in either Blessed Life or Improved Judgement.


Last Word is definitely worthwhile. Looking through my logs this week, my WoG crit rate fluctuates between 6 and 8% above that of what it should be thanks to Last Word. And the benefit of that talent is amplified further given the fact that those extra crits are all happening on zero overheal targets who are on the brink of death.

Why wouldn't you just drop the talent point from Sacred Cleansing to get Judgement range up to 30 yards seeing that you don't really need to dispel anything in Firelands anyway?


I am responsible on dispelling two things in Firelands (both of which are avoidable, but oh well). I don't feel like respeccing, nor do I feel like dropping my dps spec. I'd also prefer not to respec for PvP. Otherwise I probably would pick up one point in Blessed Life.

As far as ToR, I couldn't see myself running less than 3/3 with the change that allows the generated HP to be used instantly. It doesn't generate much HP over the course of a fight but it is extremely powerful when you do need to use it to generate HP, thanks to the WoG change.

I have to say, the haste loss wasn't as bad as i thought it would be. My casts buffed were 1.96sec instead of the hasted 1.84 with the previous build. The increased Crit was very noticible and nice, but as we all know - random.


I'm thinking a bit about stacking a little bit more haste in my build - going back to ~700-800 haste or so for sub 2s HLs. My mana could support that amount of haste and it lines up fairly well with Shock/WoG. In any case, retaining a semi-decent amount of haste in the crit/mastery build definitely works well as I've been running ~800 haste while trying to pick up better itemized gear.
90 Human Warrior
10380
As far as ToR, I couldn't see myself running less than 3/3 with the change that allows the generated HP to be used instantly. It doesn't generate much HP over the course of a fight but it is extremely powerful when you do need to use it to generate HP, thanks to the WoG change.


It's a trade of getting less HP but somewhat more on demand for generating more HP over the course of a fight. I'm more of a all or none when it comes to taking ToR, but I just don't see any value in putting points in anything else if I took out all 3 points. 1 would easily go to enlightened judgements and the other 2 points would be fluff at best. That's pretty much the only reason I would put 2/3 ToR.

I haven't done it yet, still debating.

100 Blood Elf Paladin
18200
For H-pallys i know it goes.. int > spirit > haste > crit > mastery.
is there a certin cap for these? i was told to have haste and crit at about 13-14%. but i would like to know what i should have on mastery and others. If there is a cap (or prefered) for these, could someone please reply to this. I have played holy pally since BC but not really looked into anything, so im learning.
45 Draenei Shaman
450
For H-pallys i know it goes.. int > spirit > haste > crit > mastery.
is there a certin cap for these? i was told to have haste and crit at about 13-14%. but i would like to know what i should have on mastery and others. If there is a cap (or prefered) for these, could someone please reply to this. I have played holy pally since BC but not really looked into anything, so im learning.

Read the thread. It'll tell you why your Stat priority is off.
85 Blood Elf Paladin
10845
For H-pallys i know it goes.. int > spirit > haste > crit > mastery.
is there a certin cap for these? i was told to have haste and crit at about 13-14%. but i would like to know what i should have on mastery and others. If there is a cap (or prefered) for these, could someone please reply to this. I have played holy pally since BC but not really looked into anything, so im learning.

Read the thread. It'll tell you why your Stat priority is off.


His stat priority is not necessarily off; Int>Spirit>Haste>Crit>Mastery is still a perfectly viable way of gearing; it's really a play style decision and a decision of what you are doing and what your raid needs to gear spirit/haste versus gearing crit/mastery. Neither is inherently wrong; you just need to understand what you gain and lose with each gearing method.

To answer your question, if you are going for spirit/haste, you should continue to reforge crit/mastery to spirit haste. There is no haste cap; pallies hard cast so much that haste continues to have excellent value up until DL/HL are GCD capped at 1 sec cast times (not remotely possible at current gear levels). We do have Holy Radiance tick haste thresholds, which are 773 (13 ticks) and 1861 (14 ticks). However, neither haste threshold is nearly as critical to us as it is to druids/shamans, and there is little reason to stop stacking haste past those points.
85 Blood Elf Paladin
0
So I'm going to bump this post, not because I want to, but because I want to beat a dead horse into submission.

I took a look at Eloderung's logs tonight for this raid week. I found some pretty amazing things that basically lend weight to the fact that while his numbers might add up to a viable healing build, their is little to no weight behind having any Mastery spec'd Paladins in your 25 or 10man raids.

For evidence, and because I don't want to be wordy on the official WoW forums... and also because I want to swear... Ill direct you to my new love effort, my personal Holy Pally blog.
Crisis of Faith: The Mastery Debate (or why Eloderung's Master build is terrible).

http://www.scree.org/?p=67
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