Holy Paladin: Mastery

85 Dwarf Paladin
8820

He hasn't provided any logs to back him up. That is the point, i think he put it in public to get more insight on what others think about it etc.


Yeah, unfortunately Premonition hasn't had any logs on World of Logs
(at least not any I could find)
viewable to the public since the end of last year. (Wrath content)

I would love to see some logs of this to view the numbers, the amount of times Judgement, Divine Plea etc was cast.
10 Human Rogue
0
@Zaroua

I can't see any of premo's logs. Are they being kept private because of guild policy or something?

I must say that I'm very interested to check on your logs and that of Elodung's.
85 Blood Elf Paladin
6925
Thanks for your kind/civil responses, Spiritscar, really, and clearing up your points :)

07/05/2011 09:47 AMPosted by Spiritscar
I have no problem with him stating his opinion, I just have a problem with him (and others) talking as if everyone should know who he is and instantly drop whatever you're doing and accept his word as law. Maybe I got the wrong impression and if so I apologize. I'm a antisocial loner, I can't help but take some things the wrong way.


I honestly didn't get the impression that he was supplementing this as fact, simply an alternative playstyle for a 25man raid with several holy pallies, and apparently it's very effective for him so he's sharing that. No where in his post did he ever say "this is how every holy pally must gear/prioritize", in fact, quite the opposite, stating in the last paragraph that not every raid will support a full mastery paladin, and that your Aoe / raid healing will take a dive.



10 Human Rogue
0
Advice, suggestions and sarcasms often don't translate well via internet. =)
85 Blood Elf Paladin
11145
http://elitistjerks.com/f76/t110847-holy_cataclysm_holy_compendium_4_0_6_a/p35/

Sonohako isn't convinced obviously but he still believes it holds its place as a FoL heal type area where it is a godsend on some fights. Ie. Pidgeonhole spec where it works in certain hard fights where the EH or something like that is incredibly helpful.
10 Human Rogue
0
Slightly off topic. Does anybody know of an addon to track amount of shields our target currently has? i.e. Divine Aegies, PWS or Illuminated Healing?
85 Blood Elf Paladin
6925
07/05/2011 10:29 AMPosted by Fireflame
Slightly off topic. Does anybody know of an addon to track amount of shields our target currently has? i.e. Divine Aegies, PWS or Illuminated Healing?


I set up Vuhdo to show Illuminated healing as a custom debuff. Though not as intuitive as how Vuhdo shows divine aegis/pws (that is, as a buff / cd, which is separate from debuffs), there aren't a whole lot of cleansable debuffs in FL so Illuminated healing doesn't get in the way too often. On mouseover it will show the total amount of the absorb which is what I was looking for.

Unfortunately, it will also show another paladins Illuminated Healing, so it's not as useful in a 25man.

This was kind of just a temporary solution for me until I found something better :)
85 Blood Elf Paladin
6470
Mastery with 4.2 is great but it also depends on your role. If you are allowed to just directly heal the tank, yes mastery is better. All other roles it loses out some and 10 mans it's not really viable.

It's also a personal choice. If you can make it work for yourself, then go for it. I personally like haste because of faster cast times. I'm also liking crit more now. Remember, it's a game, play it how you like.
85 Human Paladin
8805
Stacking mastery as a holy paladin is just plain old silly. That'd be like trying to do heroic LK 25 in wrath with a FoL spec. You reduce your usefulness to the raid by a very large amount. If you want to play with bubbles re-roll a priest and stop making the other raid healers do the healing for you.
Edited by Cruisecho on 7/5/2011 10:54 AM PDT
85 Human Paladin
12220
07/05/2011 10:52 AMPosted by Cruisecho
Stacking mastery as a holy paladin is just plain old silly. That'd be like trying to do heroic LK 25 in wrath with a FoL spec. You reduce your usefulness to the raid by a very large amount. If you want to play with bubbles re-roll a priest and stop making the other raid healers do the healing for you.


Not to mention you'd get more effectiveness from your mastery by stacking Crit or Haste. The only reason to go Mastery is because you're lazy and you don't want to deal with the mana problems that Haste brings to the table.

Single target healing is a thing of the past, there are dozens of tools and utilities from our class that you are not utilizing by doing what Zaroua is doing, and Zaroua is not even specced correctly for what he's trying to accomplish to top it all off.

Zaroua has always been a joke among Holy Paladins, he always takes some alternative route than the rest of us and tries to justify it with his silly logic, and the saddest part is that people actually try to imitate him because of the guild he is in.
Edited by Ggx on 7/5/2011 11:04 AM PDT
85 Dwarf Paladin
11575
Because of the efficiency gains from Mastery, do you feel you need as much spirit or are you working out the kinks of the playstyle and are currently sticking with spirit? How is your mana on fights? Have you considered integrating crit into this build where feasible for larger shields?


I still think spirit is extremely important due to the 20s cooldown on Holy Radiance which simply eats up your mana. As far as crit goes, there's no reason to get it over haste unless it gets buffed significantly.


Also, all of our logs are private for various reasons.

I made this thread on the WoW forums because the ensuing discussion would be better suited here than on the EJ forums. Though I'll probably go into depth about mastery in the coming weeks on the EJ forums.
10 Human Rogue
0
07/05/2011 11:27 AMPosted by Zaroua
Because of the efficiency gains from Mastery, do you feel you need as much spirit or are you working out the kinks of the playstyle and are currently sticking with spirit? How is your mana on fights? Have you considered integrating crit into this build where feasible for larger shields?


I still think spirit is extremely important due to the 20s cooldown on Holy Radiance which simply eats up your mana. As far as crit goes, there's no reason to get it over haste unless it gets buffed significantly.


Also, all of our logs are private for various reasons.

I made this thread on the WoW forums because the ensuing discussion would be better suited here than on the EJ forums. Though I'll probably go into depth about mastery in the coming weeks on the EJ forums.


Thank you for the clarification. I'd love to see your logs but I guess there's no way around that.

Love it when people start calling other people names.
85 Blood Elf Paladin
11145
You can discuss stuff like that in EJ.
I wasn't banned for my qualitative analysis on WoG v LoD. Probably fishing for insight!
Looks good though, heard that there are some one tank fights so ToR + LoD with more mastery might provide a buffer on AOE damage.

Of course, Never ignore spirit must be the biggest rule with healers!

The main thing is Zaroua.
You stated that you use HR, Would the extra ticks of HR help you out in Majordomo? Or have the other classes got it covered and you dropping the extra hr ticks would be more beneficial?
Edited by Josémourinho on 7/5/2011 12:08 PM PDT
85 Human Paladin
7715
07/05/2011 11:27 AMPosted by Zaroua
Because of the efficiency gains from Mastery, do you feel you need as much spirit or are you working out the kinks of the playstyle and are currently sticking with spirit? How is your mana on fights? Have you considered integrating crit into this build where feasible for larger shields?


I still think spirit is extremely important due to the 20s cooldown on Holy Radiance which simply eats up your mana. As far as crit goes, there's no reason to get it over haste unless it gets buffed significantly.


Also, all of our logs are private for various reasons.

I made this thread on the WoW forums because the ensuing discussion would be better suited here than on the EJ forums. Though I'll probably go into depth about mastery in the coming weeks on the EJ forums.


I will not argue against stacking mastery if you were intending to do the vast majority of your healing on a single tank.

The main issue I have with stacking mastery is that it severely hurts our dual tank healing, which outside of AM/BoS has been our bread and butter this expansion. It's been the singular place we excel over every other healer. My experience from normal mode firelands has been that half the fights do not have two tanks taking damage at the same time. If this doesn't change going into hardmodes today then I will consider playing around with this.

The only other issue I see is that even stacking mastery it seems like our single target healing is quite a bit weaker than a resto shaman. We made up for this HPS loss through beacon, but once you remove the majority of our beacon heals the disparity is fairly large.

It's understandable to argue that a paladin has tools a resto shaman doesn't to deal both pro-actively and re-actively to spikes, but they're able to do that now playing their haste stacking half tank/dual tank/raid healer role.
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