In-Game Mail Cap, Searching Solutions

90 Blood Elf Paladin
8040
<Note: This post is part of another conversation concerning the in-game mail cap (can be found here: http://us.battle.net/wow/en/forum/topic/1083318795?page=1#7 ) I am re-posting this post in semi-relevant and relevant threads for greatest possible chance of feedback. At very best, I wish to see some sort of implementation or at very least a reason why it is impossible. Blue responses/input welcome! >

This message is rather lengthy but with the solution I propose, I think it is worth the read:

As a guild leader of several guilds, this is a BIG issue for me! The notes section will only allow a limited amount of space to put MotD, and generally you have to really quirk your wording to get the point across. I do have a guild website and encourage all guild members to check it frequently. But, for whatever reasons, many players don't go to the website, and I can't ban them or twist their arm just because they don't!
I understand and appreciate the concerns about spamming and the control of spam. However, there has to be a comprimise here someplace. When I send notices out, be it officers or the entire guild, it literally takes me hours to complete because of the cool downs! That is unacceptable.
Realistically, you know as well as I do that no matter what security function is put into place, there are always going to be those hackers the will circumvent it. So, is theory, you take away convienance from those of us who abide by the rules, and give greater access to the hackers that circumvent your security. Like botting. To me it's cheating, and I won't deal with it in any of my guilds. But I know that there are those out there that bott, building characters from 1-85 in just a couple of weeks. Spamming - you cap mail so it can't be spammed, yet trade chat is constantly flooded by farmers selling gold! It's kinda like the aold saying "When guns are made illegal, only criminals will own them!".
My suggestion: lock multi-mail from all users except Guild Leaders. This should be an easy enough fix on the programming, as it only allows "unlimited" mailings from players only recognized as guild leader. It would make life so much easier, and give me more time to focus on other aspects of the game as well as taking care of my guilds.
Thx


You are on the right train of thought Mordralis, however I must point out to you that with your idea anyone can buy a guild charter and with little effort get the signatures required to start the guild to obtain "unlimited" in-game mail--this includes spammers. It would also be significantly easier for spammers working in groups to get a guild started and transfer leadership among themselves when particular names and or accounts are targeted by Game Masters for spamming. No, I believe it best to not allow unlimited mailing to just anyone and everyone even for guild masters.

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90 Blood Elf Paladin
8040
Perhaps a better option would be to allow "unlimited" in-game mail when only sending to fellow guild members. This method would allow you and any other member of your guild the ability to send in-game mail to any or all guild mates without restriction. Though I know very little to nothing about scripting I am under the impression that implementing this sort of mechanic to the existing in-game mail system would be as easy as adding <if> and <else> conditions or as hard as rebuilding the entire "Cap" mechanic already in place. My guess is, that implementing this change would be a 30min to 1hour job of adding/editing <if> and <else> conditions (educate me if I am grossly off in my assumptions). However, this does not address the concern for in-game mail “flooding” across the server.

A more convenient, and in my opinion, greater solution (also, possibly the most work intensive to implement) would be to add a small interface inside the existing guild control panel (similar to that of the event creator inside the calendar) where guild members can write to and mass mail guild members on a separate mail system. This would allow the guild leader to: get information out to his/her entire guild or just a few specific members, ranks, etc, in one quick move, edit which ranks have the right to use or edit the settings of this "Guild Mail" system--all the while--leaving the in-game mail cap intact to protect wow players from pesky spam and prevent the existing mail system from being flooded. After all, we don’t all check guild forums or are guaranteed to all be on at the same time to receive important info in chat.

Further into my "Guild Mail" idea; options that guild admin might find in its control panel could be: the ability to choose accessibility of this tool by other members in the guild by rank or level, turn the guild mail system on or off and the option to allow specific rank(s) the power to edit said options. On the Guild Mail screen (or gooey), accessed through the guild tab, members might see "inbox", perhaps "sent" and "create". After clicking "create" the user might see sending options (similar to that of the event calendar)to mass mail by level, rank, class, etc, the ability to add one or more guild members manually, or all members, the area where you would write your message and lastly the "Send" button. Again, I really have no solid knowledge of scripting but seeing some of the impressive Add-ons created by WoW subscribers and novice programmers I believe this solution is well in the grasp of Blizzard programmer's ability.

For demonstration purposes a quick scenario of the GuildMail tool:
I have new information that I have to pass out in detail to all raiding ranked members of my guild. I hit “J”. At the bottom of the guild interface I find the “GuildMail” tab and click it. The guild interface now displays “Inbox (0)” and “Create New”. I click on “Create New”. A window pops up with a large empty space and a side bar displaying a few options: Under “MassMail” I find and click “Rank” which opens a drop down menu displaying our guild ranks. I find and click on “Raider”. The “To:”block auto fills with “Raider” (this message will now be sent to all guild members at the rank of Raider.) In the large blank space I type my detailed message about the upcoming changes to weekly raids that will be implemented immediately with an emphasis on coming prepared--written in a rude and less than flattering way. After writing my message I decide that members above the rank of Raider needs to receive this message as well as an upcoming raider not yet at Raider rank. I return to the “To:” bar and manually type in “Officer” and “Sistersiphon” so that the “To:” bar now reads: “ To: Raider, Officer, Sistersiphon” and hit send. All my raider and officer ranked members as well as Sistersiphon now has a new message in their “GuildMail” Inbox. A few moments pass and I notice a green mail icon flashing around my mini map, I click it. A pop-up window opens a new message. It is from one of the Officer ranked members in my guild. They have sent a mass message to “All” members of my guild with the notice that the “GuildMail” Tab will now only be accessible to officer and above ranked members because of the rude message I had just sent.

(This example is a little wordy and exaggerated to make sure a clear understanding of this tool is met)

The implication of such a tool would greatly improve the ease of communication between guild members and lead to a more organized and better informed team. Ultimately, this kind of tool would bring about a greater and more fulfilling guild experience while strengthening guild relationships and more importantly relieve some of the stresses that come along with being in a leadership role.

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90 Tauren Druid
11570
Although I know nothing about how hard it would be to impliment this programming into the game while at the same time having security, I am a firm supporter of some type of "guild mass mail". Aside from having meetings on vent which would be impossible to get all guildies on at once, there is no option to get effective messages to multiple guildies or even all of them.

Hopefully just showing my support for your efforts will help get some type of system implimented.

=)
Edited by Nommo on 7/5/2011 9:28 AM PDT
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90 Worgen Druid
4300
I totally agree. 10 points and a cupcake to you :)
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90 Blood Elf Paladin
8040
07/05/2011 09:27 AMPosted by Nommo
Hopefully just showing my support for your efforts will help get some type of system implimented.

07/05/2011 09:30 AMPosted by Sictransit
I totally agree. 10 points and a cupcake to you :)


Thank you, I do appreciate it. Both of you.

I don't even expect to see any affirmative action any time soon. Mostly, honestly, I would like to see what one or two Blizzard Admins think about the idea. I would like to know if beating our chests about this is ever really going to do any good at all, and why or why not. I wanna know what may or may not work with any of these ideas...and why!

I know these guys and girls moderating these forums palm their faces, rub their temples in frustration, bang their head on the desk MANY TIMES A DAY--I would! A large portion of topics I read, especially, a lot of blue responded treads make even me want to reach through the internet and strangle somebody and I read a fraction of what they have to read and respond to. I've audibly sworn to create the "E-Stab", a program that acts like an email and when opened..STAB STAB STAB STAB..so I know these guys are loaded with work and probably very stressed out.

I don't pretend to understand the inner workings of Blizzard as a game or a business. I know there are things you can or can not say or help with, "because it is not your department" or because of red tape......or because you just dont know!

All we ask is to be leveled with and hear earnest thoughts or criticism. Could this work? If one wanted to press the matter into developmental discussion..what channels would one might take to get there?

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Hey,

I have been doing some research on this topic, and I see that it has been discussed a lot that Blizz should include this feature, though they seem content with the MOTD and the guild calendar to do the work.

Well, in all honesty it's limited, and because many people don't even notice the Message of the Day when they login lol... often cause of the addon spam that fills the chat box before they can ever read it. This is a sorely needed feature for guild leaders and it is embarrassingly lacking from the game for far too long. We used to use addons until patch 4.0 removed the ability to mass mail.

Well, basically with the new limit on mailing... not sure exactly what it is, but you can only mail 15 -20 letters before being locked out for like 30 min + or something. It's pretty annoying when in a large guild. Anyway, it's obvious Blizz did this to get rid of the mail spam, but it had a very negative effect on guild mass communication.

SOLUTION #1 (The easiest solution):

Get rid of restrictions on mailing to your own guildies. In other words, sure, limit it to outside of your guild, but don't restrict it to your own guildies. This can't be all that hard to implement would it be?

SOLUTION #2 (The BEST solution that prob won't happen): Blizz introduces their own guild messaging system for the leaders to be able to send mass mail to the guildies.

SOLUTION #3 (This is if Blizz continues to ignore this problem and we have to work around it with addons):
Basically, all mass guild mailing addons have stopped being used and are inactive now. But, there is a solution if you are a good coder, of which I myself am not... wish I was or I would've made this. You take the guild mass mailing option, and you need to write it with some type of buffer. In other words, when you submit a letter to be mailed, it sends it until you reach your limit. Then, it saves the rest of the addresses as well as the letter. Then, the next time you go to the mailbox, if the Mail CD has gone away, it will prompt you to mail the rest. Now, this may take a while, but at least it will be automated and will keep track of the job for you.

Anyway, just some friendly ideas for a glaring problem in Guild Communication. Honestly, if Blizz just did my Solution #1 and took the easy way out by just not restricting it to guildies it would bring back all of the mailing addons.

I hope this is thoughtfully and speedily considered.
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90 Blood Elf Paladin
8040
Arkaan, many thanks go out to you for contributing regardless of how aggressively agreeable you are with my ideas. Quite honestly I am still trying to decide if your response was nearly synonymous with my original post for defusing reasons or if I really hit this one on the head this time.

You will have to forgive me, I tend to inspire negative reprisal and I am not conditioned well for coincided or supporting rebuttals with out some challenge to one or more portions of my argument.

I have been giving some thought into an add-on I once used, I believe it was coined "WoW Texas Holdem". This add-on would allow 8 or 9 people with the client (add-on) to join and participate in a game of Holdem. It seems to me that the same script that allowed multiple people to connect and share data in the form of key clicks with the Texas Holdem add-on should be very similar if not basically the same then that of an add-on that could share and send data in the form of text. Though, if no one was connected using the client, say..offline, how does this text get saved or stored until one connects to the client? You also had to connect to a players Holdem client after they told the add-on to accept incoming join requests by becoming a dealer.

Does WoW allow cloud storage within the system while in-game? Can an add-on be written to store data and continually attempt to send stored data to accepting clients?

...I wish I new more about programming =[
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Arkaan, many thanks go out to you for contributing regardless of how aggressively agreeable you are with my ideas. Quite honestly I am still trying to decide if your response was nearly synonymous with my original post for defusing reasons or if I really hit this one on the head this time.

You will have to forgive me, I tend to inspire negative reprisal and I am not conditioned well for coincided or supporting rebuttals with out some challenge to one or more portions of my argument.

I have been giving some thought into an add-on I once used, I believe it was coined "WoW Texas Holdem". This add-on would allow 8 or 9 people with the client (add-on) to join and participate in a game of Holdem. It seems to me that the same script that allowed multiple people to connect and share data in the form of key clicks with the Texas Holdem add-on should be very similar if not basically the same then that of an add-on that could share and send data in the form of text. Though, if no one was connected using the client, say..offline, how does this text get saved or stored until one connects to the client? You also had to connect to a players Holdem client after they told the add-on to accept incoming join requests by becoming a dealer.

Does WoW allow cloud storage within the system while in-game? Can an add-on be written to store data and continually attempt to send stored data to accepting clients?

...I wish I new more about programming =[


I would say that I am not criticizing you at all! I agree with the changes that need to be made here lol

As for the programming aspects I believe you are over-complicating it by turning this into a cloud computing issue. Really doesn't need to work like that and the addons don't need to communicate. With texas hold-em, it is interactive with other players so yes, it DOES need to communicate, and that information is actually probably stored on ALL people's computers in a memory buffer, set to release the info in the right conditions.

This is my least favorite solution, but it is still practical, if someone had the coding skills. All you need to do is create the mailing addon with a buffer to store the remaining addresses and the note with a CD timer set to mail the next batch whenever mailing cap is reached
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85 Dwarf Paladin
6780
07/05/2011 09:02 AMPosted by Sistersiphon
have new information that I have to pass out in detail to all raiding ranked members of my guild. I hit “J”. At the bottom of the guild interface I find the “GuildMail” tab and click it. The guild interface now displays “Inbox (0)” and “Create New”. I click on “Create New”. A window pops up with a large empty space and a side bar displaying a few options: Under “MassMail” I find and click “Rank” which opens a drop down menu displaying our guild ranks. I find and click on “Raider”. The “To:”block auto fills with “Raider” (this message will now be sent to all guild members at the rank of Raider.) In the large blank space I type my detailed message about the upcoming changes to weekly raids that will be implemented immediately with an emphasis on coming prepared--written in a rude and less than flattering way. After writing my message I decide that members above the rank of Raider needs to receive this message as well as an upcoming raider not yet at Raider rank. I return to the “To:” bar and manually type in “Officer” and “Sistersiphon” so that the “To:” bar now reads: “ To: Raider, Officer, Sistersiphon” and hit send. All my raider and officer ranked members as well as Sistersiphon now has a new message in their “GuildMail” Inbox. A few moments pass and I notice a green mail icon flashing around my mini map, I click it. A pop-up window opens a new message. It is from one of the Officer ranked members in my guild. They have sent a mass message to “All” members of my guild with the notice that the “GuildMail” Tab will now only be accessible to officer and above ranked members because of the rude message I had just sent.


Really don't need mass e-mail for this if instead they updated the message of the day to include more space and add an in game notification when it is updated and people click on that notice in the game interface to read it. What your talking about is getting to the point of a full mailing system with groups, and the first thing that happens is people want to send a reply back with ideas and information to all of the folks on that group. It quickly sky rockets up. I say this based on experience working in a real life organization where this happened. Everyone wants their message and these huge threads form, it is just natural that they do so.
Think about it, why make dozens or hundreds of copies of the same message (mass e-mail) instead of just putting the message in one spot and having an alert that people can click to read that one spot.
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Really don't need mass e-mail for this if instead they updated the message of the day to include more space and add an in game notification when it is updated and people click on that notice in the game interface to read it. What your talking about is getting to the point of a full mailing system with groups, and the first thing that happens is people want to send a reply back with ideas and information to all of the folks on that group. It quickly sky rockets up. I say this based on experience working in a real life organization where this happened. Everyone wants their message and these huge threads form, it is just natural that they do so.
Think about it, why make dozens or hundreds of copies of the same message (mass e-mail) instead of just putting the message in one spot and having an alert that people can click to read that one spot.


This is a very valid point.,.. Honestly you are semi-right, as this would completely solve issues with communicating with the guild on events and stuff if they just made the MOTD have more space and it popped uip on screen whenever someone logged in.

I say semi-right because it doesn't really fix the problem with let's say you as a leader want to mail a group of people in the guild that are a specific rank or class, or a specific rank and greater type of thing. Addons have allowed us to have this type of flexibility for a while until Blizz nerf'd it. So, while your solution is a good one, I still think it's just more of a little effort bandaid solution to the real issue.

I mean seriously, it's just txt in the in-game email system. How hard is it to really manage it all? Email is the least bandwidth taking, and most utilized features of the internetz... why gimp the simple PM system in WOW? lol Again, good idea though... I personally think YOUR idea AND the mailing cap removal to guildie-guildie should be removed.

HGow about this... guild lvl 26, guildies are not limited to mailing cap limit to their own guild.
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85 Dwarf Paladin
6780
I mean seriously, it's just txt in the in-game email system. How hard is it to really manage it all? Email is the least bandwidth taking, and most utilized features of the internetz... why gimp the simple PM system in WOW? lol Again, good idea though... I personally think YOUR idea AND the mailing cap removal to guildie-guildie should be removed.


I'm with ya on wanting an effective way for a guild message to get to guild members in a way they don't miss it (unless they simply want to miss it on purpose).
It's just that as an example with Internet mail, spam accounts for about 90% of all Internet e-mail. The reason is people see a tool to send a message to lots of people directly to their mail box and do it. Many guild leaders being human and wanting to communicate more with their guild, and likewise want others in the guild to mass communicate back. I'm sure it would be a LOT less in game than , but human nature is what it is and many a guild would consider bumping their guild members up to a rank to be able to mass mail, and it is not the size of a text message (it's almost nothing) it is simply the number of messages that start getting out there.
So the larger size available for: where are all of the guild messages
would be the safer (IMO) way.

Understand wanting to have one certain people at some ranks be able to see messages.

All that said, I don't know why Blizzard put a cap on in game the number of messages or what they think on this topic.
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90 Human Mage
8395
One of the reasons I'd prefer a mass gmail over MotD is because the message of the day might need to be changed frequently. In our MotD, we've had to put a note requesting that certain players be put on /ignore by the entire guild (harassment issues). But then I need to change it to let members know they need to check the calendar for a certain event. Or to let them know the website is down, or .... any number of reasons. So the people who were not online at the time have missed the important stuff. (Not everyone logs in every day). With gmail, they won't miss anything (as long as they check their mail).

The cap was put on because of the spammers. If something is made that only could go to guild members, and only handled by the gm or those the gm appoints, it wouldn't be an issue. But the GM needs to make sure not to give that access to low ranks, or the spammers will just join guilds to spam them
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86 Draenei Hunter
7050
I completely agree, allow guild masters to have a "Mail to all" option for their guilds at the very least, if not adding in an option to allow or disallow the tier below to do so also, like many other guild options.

Mail from your guildmaster isn't spam (or shouldn't be... if your GM spams you, then you need to consider your future membership in the guild.)
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Bumping an old thread because it is still needed. Trying to send out mail to members is nearly impossible in a large guild due to the cap. Please remove the cap for sending to guild mates or for GMs sending to members.
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