Where are the RAID PUG's?

90 Blood Elf Priest
0
I read something in the patch notes somewhere that said something about how they wanted to bring back the PUG aspect of raiding as an option for players.

IMO, get rid of the 10-25 man shared lockout. The whole not wanting someone to get lucky and get one piece of heroic loot by downing the first boss and going back to Regular is just silly - if your group is good enough to complete more than one Heroic boss in any raid, they should be good enough to down those same bosses and go further on regular and thus the potential 1-2 person getting one piece of sweet loots is not really going to tip the scales. Unless of course they do this every week and slowly get some gear distributed off that first Heroic boss... But if they want to do that for 10+ weeks, more power to them.
85 Dwarf Mage
1280
A few things:

1) Increased difficulty until the recent nerfs. So people are not used to pugging even if the nerf made the content puggable

2) Shared lockouts. I used to pug 25's on my main healer and saved 10 man lockouts for my guild. I don't have that option any more, so I don't pug.

3) Since experienced raiders are now saving their raid lockouts, the pugs that you will eventually find are alts, noobs, and other people who aren't practiced in raiding ... which makes me less inclined to pug anything at all, even when my guild doesn't need me that week.

4) Gear progression. Was a really steep climb before the troll heroics .. and has just now started to clear up since T-11 is on justice points.


As the first reply said ... Cata is not a pug friendly expansion.
Community Manager
We specifically intend for the 4.0 raids to be puggable now that Firelands is out. Grabbing some tier 11 by way of Justice, quest rewards, plus across the board difficulty nerfs should really be enough to get them going.

The patch has only been out a day or so though. I think it'll probably take a little bit before people really get it into their heads that they should be pugging the previous tier because it's not too hard to be successful. It's just getting people used to the various encounters and mechanics.

Maybe people are waiting for the holiday weekend? If nothing else, leading one yourself is always an option. I think we'd agree that we need some better ways to get pug raids together considering we intend to follow the "New Raid is Hard, old Tier is Puggable" format from here on.
90 Night Elf Druid
8250
06/30/2011 01:25 PMPosted by Bashiok
We specifically intend for the 4.0 raids to be puggable now that Firelands is out. Grabbing some tier 11 by way of Justice, quest rewards, plus across the board difficulty nerfs should really be enough to get them going.

Still wondering what is puggable. I did a heroic halfus in a PuG. I have seen PuGs from launch. What is puggable?

Also did attempts on that hunter boss in firelands. Was fun. Seems quite puggable from for 10 mans. Just more of an issue of dps being able to out put the kind of numbers they should be at their level.
Edited by Noctemtenchi on 6/30/2011 1:36 PM PDT
People have been pugging 4.0 raids on my server for months. The last couple months a lot of them have been going for 4/4 in BoT or 5/6 in BWD.
80 Night Elf Priest
640
06/30/2011 01:25 PMPosted by Bashiok
I think we'd agree that we need some better ways to get pug raids together considering we intend to follow the "New Raid is Hard, old Tier is Puggable" format from here on.


So pretty much what you are implying is if you play in smaller time chunks, you should never expect to kill anything in current tier or current content. Not twisting words or anything but man you guys are really presenting this as an insult by overly generalizing here.

And yes, we did H Halfus in our alt runs...

Edit: If you didn't notice, difficulty is only 'part' of the problem for pugging.
Edited by Keylogger on 6/30/2011 1:34 PM PDT
87 Blood Elf Rogue
6775
We specifically intend for the 4.0 raids to be puggable now that Firelands is out. Grabbing some tier 11 by way of Justice, quest rewards, plus across the board difficulty nerfs should really be enough to get them going.

The patch has only been out a day or so though. I think it'll probably take a little bit before people really get it into their heads that they should be pugging the previous tier because it's not too hard to be successful. It's just getting people used to the various encounters and mechanics.

Maybe people are waiting for the holiday weekend? If nothing else, leading one yourself is always an option. I think we'd agree that we need some better ways to get pug raids together considering we intend to follow the "New Raid is Hard, old Tier is Puggable" format from here on.


May I suggest, as a possible solution, adding the living ember drop to the bosses from tier 11, or at least the end bosses? In the same way that progression raiders will farm heroics for chaos orbs if needed, we may be willing to farm tier 11 nerfed raids for living embers to facilitate the crafting of gear for our raiders, especially if that gear is worthwhile.

It is feasible that some raids will simply farm the embers with their core group, rather than PuG. However, take my guild as an example of another possibility - we raid 3 nights a week for four hours a night, plus an optional fourth night. We simply don't have enough of our core in game on the other nights to put together a tier 11 farming group. The players who are on, however, would be tempted to pick up some PuG players to farm living embers, in my opinion.
90 Night Elf Druid
15850
06/30/2011 01:32 PMPosted by Keylogger
So pretty much what you are implying is if you play in smaller time chunks, you should never expect to kill anything in current tier or current content. Not twisting words or anything but man you guys are really presenting this as an insult by overly generalizing here.


Smaller time chunks doesn't imply that you have to pug raids. There are guilds that raid 1 or 2 nights a week and clear current content.

What i got from that statement is that if you want hard normal mode content you should be doing current content. And everything in the game is set up to support that model right now.
85 Dwarf Shaman
5025
We specifically intend for the 4.0 raids to be puggable now that Firelands is out. Grabbing some tier 11 by way of Justice, quest rewards, plus across the board difficulty nerfs should really be enough to get them going.

The patch has only been out a day or so though. I think it'll probably take a little bit before people really get it into their heads that they should be pugging the previous tier because it's not too hard to be successful. It's just getting people used to the various encounters and mechanics.

Maybe people are waiting for the holiday weekend? If nothing else, leading one yourself is always an option. I think we'd agree that we need some better ways to get pug raids together considering we intend to follow the "New Raid is Hard, old Tier is Puggable" format from here on.


Good to know. So what you are saying is get a raid guild or be a tier behind this whole xpac?
80 Night Elf Priest
640
Good to know. So what you are saying is get a raid guild or be a tier behind this whole xpac?


Yes that is their current philosophy. Raid or die.
85 Orc Shaman
3210
06/30/2011 06:31 AMPosted by Distopia
Cata killed those, didn't you get the memo?
85 Human Priest
4545
06/30/2011 01:41 PMPosted by Keylogger
Good to know. So what you are saying is get a raid guild or be a tier behind this whole xpac?


Yes that is their current philosophy. Raid or die.


Working as intended. I don't log on if it isn't for raid nights. Well, that's a lie, I've logged on 2 days in a row because of Firelands...
75 Troll Druid
670
I see tons of pugs on Tichondrious. I mean end of Wrath 30% buff numbers of pugs.
85 Dwarf Shaman
5025


06/30/2011 01:41 PMPosted by Keylogger
Good to know. So what you are saying is get a raid guild or be a tier behind this whole xpac?


Yes that is their current philosophy. Raid or die.


I know that many seem to love this kind of format, but honestly I can't see myself sticking around much longer. The whole idea of old outdated content counting as actual "content" for those with a life or a less then optimal schedule just really doesn't sit well with me.


I can only speak for myself, but I'm sure there are others out there who feel the same way.
Seriously, another 6-7 months of dailies and running outdated raids for outdated gear?


C'mon guys, you are better then this. You have set the standard for years now. Don't blow it on the homestretch
87 Blood Elf Rogue
6775
We specifically intend for the 4.0 raids to be puggable now that Firelands is out. Grabbing some tier 11 by way of Justice, quest rewards, plus across the board difficulty nerfs should really be enough to get them going.

The patch has only been out a day or so though. I think it'll probably take a little bit before people really get it into their heads that they should be pugging the previous tier because it's not too hard to be successful. It's just getting people used to the various encounters and mechanics.

Maybe people are waiting for the holiday weekend? If nothing else, leading one yourself is always an option. I think we'd agree that we need some better ways to get pug raids together considering we intend to follow the "New Raid is Hard, old Tier is Puggable" format from here on.


Good to know. So what you are saying is get a raid guild or be a tier behind this whole xpac?


The way I read it is that Blizzard is trying hard to balance design philosophy between the needs of the different types of players.

Whether or not content is current is relative to your place in content. If you haven't cleared tier 11, then tier 11 is current content for you. By nerfing that content, Blizzard has made the transition from dungeons to tier 11 more accessible, and by virtue of that progression to Firelands will be a smoother, and frankly easier, thing to accomplish.

With tier 11 content as easy as it is now, you can see the content, clear the content, and get the needed experience and iLVL for Firelands fairly easily. If after that you don't have the time and/or inclination to put in the effort to work on Firelands, you have the option of waiting until it is nerfed as well.

What exactly is it you want from the developers? That new raids be immediately puggable as well?
22 Tauren Warrior
150
I've seen a lot of pugs going on Zul'Jin, but then again it's an overcrowded carebear server.

And of course, it's "iLvl 360 PvE equipped, link achievement, go at SW bank for inspection etc etc."

But somewhat pug none the less.


While it may literally fit the definition, I don't think a 10man group of people from the top 3-5 guilds on the server is what most folks think of when they think PuG.
Edited by Agememnon on 6/30/2011 1:55 PM PDT
85 Tauren Druid
3265

Good to know. So what you are saying is get a raid guild or be a tier behind this whole xpac?


This mentality baffles me. I mean what else can they do for you? Do they need to start scewing encounters so someone can make an addon for you that does everything in the encounter for you. Good lord......
Edited by Fauxpoo on 6/30/2011 1:57 PM PDT
85 Human Priest
4545
To those crying that they can't raid and that t11 is "old" content, how can it be old to you if you've never ran it? the fact that you are now given a chance to raid and see this content that has been available for months should be something to be happy about. If they didn't nerf it, you wouldn't be able to see it. This is nonsense, stop QQing and go see some raid content, that is what this patch was meant for anyway.
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