Where are the RAID PUG's?

90 Night Elf Druid
8200
06/30/2011 02:13 PMPosted by Fayul
Already seeing this nonsense.

Yup happend with WotLK for even ToC when ICC was out. Shows that even for raids like ToC that mentality was there.

KJ used to be one of the top, the server has lost many of the raider population in WotLK. We still do well due to being a high population server and fairly even faction split.
06/30/2011 02:17 PMPosted by Overture
So casuals will constantly be a tier behind for the rest of the life of this game?

Seriously people, stop using the word casual like a crutch. Casuals have been raiding current content. Now firelands is still to early to see, yet so far casuals are raiding.
06/30/2011 02:17 PMPosted by Overture
You also did not address the absolute failure that is shared lockouts.

How is that a failure, many raiders got their weekends back which made the game more casual.
06/30/2011 02:17 PMPosted by Overture
Glad to know that casuals will be in a constant state of waiting around for something to do for six months at a time for the rest of the life of this game.

What? That would have meant that you did t11 while it was current to be waiting around six months.
Edited by Noctemtenchi on 6/30/2011 2:27 PM PDT
90 Gnome Warlock
1785
So casuals will constantly be a tier behind for the rest of the life of this game? If that is what is actually coming out of your mouth I'll save myself the time and unsub now.


I don't know about you, my metal clad gnomish bretheren, but this casual is raiding current content.
96 Draenei Death Knight
6965
We specifically intend for the 4.0 raids to be puggable now that Firelands is out. Grabbing some tier 11 by way of Justice, quest rewards, plus across the board difficulty nerfs should really be enough to get them going.

The patch has only been out a day or so though. I think it'll probably take a little bit before people really get it into their heads that they should be pugging the previous tier because it's not too hard to be successful. It's just getting people used to the various encounters and mechanics.

Maybe people are waiting for the holiday weekend? If nothing else, leading one yourself is always an option. I think we'd agree that we need some better ways to get pug raids together considering we intend to follow the "New Raid is Hard, old Tier is Puggable" format from here on.


I think once people realize the level of nerf-age, the PuGs will happen.

*edited for naughty word contained within an unnaughty word*
Edited by Sleinne on 6/30/2011 2:25 PM PDT
85 Dwarf Shaman
5025
06/30/2011 02:15 PMPosted by Alyzaria
I suspect the issue isn't "current" content, its "current" gear. Why are dedicated raiders who have more time to play than me getting better gear than I am? Throwing me a bone by making Tier 11 gear easy to get - I don't want tier 11 gear, I want tier 12 gear. If that is the real issue at hand, say so. Don't camouflage your gripe with Blizzard by talking about content.


Ah Ha, nowhere in my posts will you see me wanting "free epix" or "welfare purplez". Gear is exactly that, gear. I honestly could care if it's green, blue, purple, or hey, lets make a nice hot pink set. Doesn't matter to me. The ones who are intent on the gear are running t12 already.

Am I one of the few people who actually plays this game with the intentions of finding new people to run with? Thats how my old guild got started, an ICC 25 pug. It went horribly, but we had fun running with eachother, and bam, guild was formed. I had a blast wiping with those guys for hours in that place.

With the current mentality of the devs being carried over into game, it's get leet or gtfo, thats what I have an issue with. I really don't feel like my demographic actually matters this xpac.
84 Night Elf Druid
5770
06/30/2011 01:32 PMPosted by Keylogger
I think we'd agree that we need some better ways to get pug raids together considering we intend to follow the "New Raid is Hard, old Tier is Puggable" format from here on.


So pretty much what you are implying is if you play in smaller time chunks, you should never expect to kill anything in current tier or current content. Not twisting words or anything but man you guys are really presenting this as an insult by overly generalizing here.

And yes, we did H Halfus in our alt runs...

Edit: If you didn't notice, difficulty is only 'part' of the problem for pugging.


He's not implying time wise, more skill wise. You can kill current content on a short play time. you can't if you're bad. If you're bad, you'll have to wait a bit. worse players see content, good players see it faster. Everyone wins.
87 Blood Elf Rogue
6775
06/30/2011 02:27 PMPosted by Fayul
I suspect the issue isn't "current" content, its "current" gear. Why are dedicated raiders who have more time to play than me getting better gear than I am? Throwing me a bone by making Tier 11 gear easy to get - I don't want tier 11 gear, I want tier 12 gear. If that is the real issue at hand, say so. Don't camouflage your gripe with Blizzard by talking about content.


Ah Ha, nowhere in my posts will you see me wanting "free epix" or "welfare purplez". Gear is exactly that, gear. I honestly could care if it's green, blue, purple, or hey, lets make a nice hot pink set. Doesn't matter to me. The ones who are intent on the gear are running t12 already.

Am I one of the few people who actually plays this game with the intentions of finding new people to run with? Thats how my old guild got started, an ICC 25 pug. It went horribly, but we had fun running with eachother, and bam, guild was formed. I had a blast wiping with those guys for hours in that place.

With the current mentality of the devs being carried over into game, it's get leet or gtfo, thats what I have an issue with. I really don't feel like my demographic actually matters this xpac.


So then the issue really is basically the difficulty level of Firelands, the fact that the newest content isn't puggable?
80 Night Elf Priest
640
06/30/2011 02:29 PMPosted by Tyrazsun
He's not implying time wise, more skill wise. You can kill current content on a short play time. you can't if you're bad. If you're bad, you'll have to wait a bit. worse players see content, good players see it faster. Everyone wins.


In your eyes players who don't have static schedules are bad? Ok.
85 Dwarf Shaman
5025
06/30/2011 02:30 PMPosted by Alyzaria
So then the issue really is basically the difficulty level of Firelands, the fact that the newest content isn't puggable?


Again, I wasn't lucky enough to start cata in guild that blew through content. Blame it on me if you must, maybe I am a BAD. But without the previous tiers experience and the current tuning of t12 what chance do I, or many like me have at running firelands while its current? I guess I'm supposed to be happy that i can supposedly pug t11 and just shut up about it? Because thats the vibe I'm getting here
85 Orc Death Knight
5410
What are people complaining about now? If you wanted to do the current tier, you could have done it before the patch. It was too hard you say? Well, that's the point. If the current tier was easily puggable before it got any nerfs and before it was easy to outgear it, then it would only last a couple of months and people would say they are bored of it. Most servers don't have much of the new raid down.. and a lot of guilds are still running the previous tier, so its not as old as the complainers are claiming.

It just amazes me that before the nerf, some non-raiders complain about it being too hard to pug, and post-nerf, they complain that its old and they want to be able to do the current content instead.
85 Goblin Shaman
12230
I see more interest in running ZA/ZG for valor points than running T11 raids from most of the people that would pug raids. A lot of casuals (who would be pug raiding) can use up all their time each week reaching their valor point cap.

Why pug BWD, BoT, or TofW when you can run ZA/ZG for better gear through valor points?

Once people have their valor gear, I see trying to attempt Firelands as more popular than going back to BWD/BoT/TFW to fill in the missing pieces.

I think they messed up big time allowing you to get so many valor points without raiding and with how time consuming hitting your valor point cap through ZA/ZG is, it likely doesn't leave most casuals with time to pug.

I do see some PUGs happening now that people realize the level of ner%*@e just to see the content, but once people have seen the content I don't see the old gear being incentive with so much new shiny gear available to casuals.
Edited by Trelis on 6/30/2011 2:39 PM PDT
80 Night Elf Priest
640
Also people who wanted to see t11, saw that tier before 4.2. So pretty much t11 is only going to be alt runs.

And yes, VP gains via ZG/ZA need to be nerfed. Big time.
90 Blood Elf Warlock
9530
I see the opposite T11 has been pugged for the last few weeks even got a bot clear with a full pug and a za/zg geared alt. As to not having enough time in 3 hours a week I've had no problems seeing everything.
85 Dwarf Shaman
5025
Almost every guild I know recruited out the whazoo before cata. So, I guess you didn't think it prudent to look for a raiding guild at that time. Second, you can apply to a raiding guild now. Your current gear is going to be of less importance than your achievement history. If you've cleared a lot of content in prior patches when it was current, you should fare well in the finding a guild.


Check my armoury, I was 10/12 Icc pugging, ntb in my books, and that opened the doors for alot more pugs for me. Does that mean I'm better then the next guy or that i know the fights?

Absolutely not, i got that far once. But that meaningless lil achievement in progress got me into groups that passed over much better players who hadn't gotten lucky enough to get that far.

And yes I was in a raiding guild precata, guess what? It imploded. Theres been alot of that going around lately. And quite frankly i don't get much enjoyment planning my life around a game and the needs of 9 or 24 other virtual people.
100 Troll Shaman
15315
There's nothing stopping you from forming your own pug raid at any time.

we intend to follow the "New Raid is Hard, old Tier is Puggable" format from here on.


And it is a good format that should make everyone fairly happy, though of course that will never happen.
Edited by Koica on 6/30/2011 2:46 PM PDT
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