Topic
Why don't moonkins have ONE lousy stun? One.
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If Ghostcrawler is serious about bringing the player and not the class, then yes, you're going to have to 'homogenize' a bit more, even tho he worries about that. How the heck do I live in PVP without a pocket healer? Oh, that's right. I don't.
Even then, with one, I'm a great target for switches in arena -- cc my healer, nuke me -- I've got... wait for it... barkskin! Whee! We don't have a way to takes dots off of us... we don't have stuns (any -- not one!)... our self-heals are pathetic and cause us to drop moonkin form which makes damage on us go up by 15%... (yeah it's not worth it most of the time even tho I try and it crushes my mana to boot)... we don't have a 'get out of jail free card'... I could go on and on about what tools we DON'T have. A DK today interrupted me 3 times in a row. I was sunk. Warriors not only can interrupt every 15 secs (seems like more at times), their self-heals (along with rogues, DKs and even hunters at this point) are just ridiculous compared to moonkin offheals. Yes, yes, I know. They try to nerf Resto Druids and hit us. I get it. So give us something farther down in the tree!!! Give us a STUN. I'm begging you. Or make moonkin form a cooldown and let us choose whether it's an offensive or defensive cooldown (ya know, for _balance_). We all hate the moonkin form anyway, let us dps in caster form, go boomkin for the nuke or awesome defensive situations. Or at least take moonkin form off the bloody GCD! Something! And folks, please don't tell me to go bear and bash. It's a GCD, need rage, blah blah blah. It's not something we do fast. I get that we can change forms but I'd actually be ok if they made frenzied regen and other talents like that ACTUAL talents. Changing forms I get (heck, Twin Peaks = swim form for the fast flag run), but take away the advanced stuff -- I bet it would be a ton easier to balance. I'm balance for a reason. I suck at healing and am no good at melee. TL:DR One stun Blizz, pls. Just one. |
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To be honest I would rather up the 2 seconds of cyclone and get a move like Cacoon. An instant cast hold that acts as innactive roots so that we have the time to get away and cast a roots. Without that we have nothing and with that boomkin PvP could be substantial enough to make it to a top 500 arena 3v3.
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Dont turn Moonkin form into a cooldown like Tree of Life. I swear to god....
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just nitpicking really, since it does take a GCD before you can get your stun off, and then two more before you can get back into moonkin form - but even if you can't afford to spec into furor... Enrage means that the rage cost at least of bash shouldn't be a limiting factor. If I had to guess, I'd say the biggest problem you'd be facing is that you CAN bash. Not necessarily that you should. I know roughly jack about PvP, but with the ability to line up things like solar beam, bash, skull bash, maim, cyclone... I imagine you'd probably need to make sure that any additional Moonkin based stun came with a clause that locked you out of one of your less accessible means of 'annoying' people in PvP. |
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I find myself agreeing with Katjia on the fact that I am not even specced into furor and I can hit a bash. Not to say i think boomy pvp is perfect it could defenatly use a breakable deepfreeze for a gap opener but a pounce rake maim (insta clone if you spec straight pvp 'predetory strikes' very helpful) rejuv lifebloom 2 stack roots solar beam and go nuts... It seems like enough time to take down in a 1v1 situation even without the bash.
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Druids had a stun in TBC and in early Wotlk it was called Celestial Focus and when you would hit your target with Starfire it had a 15% chance to stun the target for 3 seconds, it also had this effect with Starfall for a while. If they should add any stun back in it should be Celestial Focus and it should benefit both Starfall and Starfire and it would come with the specialization from going into the Balance Tree. The only thing i would recommend doing is making it so that the effect couldn't happen more than every 6 or 9 seconds since Starfall would benefit from the stun as well.
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Because the game is saturated with cc's. enough said.
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Edited by Subology on 7/3/11 11:48 PM (PDT)
If Ghostcrawler is serious about bringing the player and not the class, then yes, you're going to have to 'homogenize' a bit more, even tho he worries about that. How the heck do I live in PVP without a pocket healer? Oh, that's right. I don't.At least you have the option of ONE stun, try playing Ele shammy. Not to mention at least you have one defensive cooldown, not to mention at least you have a defensive form. Oh and not to mention you at least have some form of instant heals. |
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Edited by Elnia on 7/4/11 2:06 AM (PDT)
Moonkins used to have a stun. Really, they did. Blizzard took it out because all the PvPers complained. That was back in BC when stuns in PvP=bad bad bad. Of course, now that stuns in PvP=good good good did they put it back in. No.
edit: @Phoebelira. Missed your post. You're correct. |
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I've been thinking this lately too. I play feral in PvP and lack defensive abilities are why i wont go boomkin for pvp. Personally I would love a fear.
I mean cmon warriors get one.... they're a melee class and they have a fear to make you run away from them... why should melee get fears over spellcasters? |
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Edited by Howlingmoon on 7/4/11 3:01 AM (PDT)
I completely agree with Bomchet. Trying to stand still and hardcast Starfire for 2+ seconds on ANYONE that's running in circles around you and interrupting constantly (fear, bash, silences, etc..) means death in pvp....Barkskin is a joke really, 20% reduction in damage doesn't do much in the way of mitigation. Mages, Locks, S Priests, even Disc can all basically stand still and "absorb, absorb, absorb" Boomkin attacks while the Boomkin takes constant damage from dots and direct spell attacks. I've even had priests just stand still and ONLY use "mana burn" on me while I hit them with everything I have without making much of a dent until I'm oom.
The problem is, Blizz is trying to make pve talents "fit into" and be "balanced" in the pvp world. I say, create all new PvP talent trees that can only be used in PvP situations. (Arenas, bg's, rated bg's, wargames). These new talent trees would automatically be enforced upon entering any of the above. This would give Blizz a TRUE opportunity to "balance" things out and stop trying to fit a pve square into a pvp circle. |
Shammies have no defensive CDs? At all? I know their heals are vastly more powerful than ours, and they can now cast while on the move. |
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When they took away the insta roots glyph b/c ferals were owning the planet, i was hoping they'd compensate moonkins with something, but no dice. I play rated bgs and arena, and tbh my best defense is finding somewhere that I can typhoon melee off me -- I have no other way of getting them off me. Nature's grasp does root them, but I'm almost always stunned, so they get rooted in melee range.
It's demoralizing to hope for Blade's Edge Arena just so I have some shot at typhooning them off me or my heals. Howling's reference is another issue -- we have to hard cast a lot -- and even trying to get off a cyclone with its long cast time is freakin insanely hard. I'm glad they made cleanses more expensive, but one cleanse takes BOTH dots of my target -- we have no dot protection. The insta-roots glyph was huge for us in pvp, especially with using solar beam well. If enemies are mobile, it's rough to count on a parter to stun them so they stop moving to drop the beam on them. Again, trying to get off a roots hard cast with melee on you can be tough. I'm going to have to agree -- split the pvp and pve talent trees already! They've started doing this with some warrior talents -- keep going! |
Shamans seem harder to kill than Moonkins, they have a root for anyone nearby their Earthbind Totem when dropped, they have a greater Knockback than druids that is a area effect and that actually works when clicked the first time, they have Hex, Grounding Totem, Ghost Wolf, actual good slows, Stoneclaw Totem provides a shield if glyph-ed (absorbing around 18-20k dmg?), and Spirit Walkers Grace providing you to run around and cast any spell while moving for 15 seconds, along with you being able to run around and cast Lighting Bolt when glyph-ed... Anyways back to the point of this thread i would still recommend adding something in the specialization from specing into the balance tree like Celestial Focus that gave you a chance to stun. They also could add that depending on which Eclipse your in that would make your main nuke during that Eclipse cast-able while moving until you reach the other Eclipse. |
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Phoebelira, I'd prefer a stun that's not based on RNG... control is something we totally lack, and having it proc randomly couldn't be counted on. Control and survivability are things we lack.
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Hunters self heals? oh sorry i forgot my 10k heal tops from chimera shot on a 7 second cd, glyphed, is so much. lets say we even go bm and get that mend from spirit pets, its still just a few k every couple seconds, so you dont know what your talking about. |
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Bm is probably the high survivability tree for hunters because of their constant heal. If you are able to get range and keep that heal up, your good.
I dont play a boomkin because i dont like the play style, but both specs are almost worthless in PvP, boomkin moreso than feral i will admit. When they took out shapeshifting for Feral, it really hit us hard, while Boomkins could still do it. They took away the 1 major control that Boomkins have because ferals would use it. Honestly, give Boomkins their insta-roots back like us Ferals have with cyclone, but in a different form because a Boomkin doesn't build up combo points -_-. And PLEASE MAKE THE TREE SEPARATE ALREADY! |
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I would prefer a RNG stun because my opponent would never be able to guess when they would be stunned which could benefit me because 3s could give me enough time to Cyclone and Heal, or i could get quite a few casts in.
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Heheh, hadn't considered that Phoebelira. :)
Smeaglum, that's how bad this has gotten -- boomkin offheals are just that bad -- I'm getting beaten by hunters lol !! (Yes I know healing their pets count on the board, but still...) Anywho. We need a stun, insta-roots, moonkin form off the GCD and a pony. |
