i365 Vicious vs i371 Vicious - Comparison

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85 Tauren Warrior
3265
For Blizzard Sticky Response from Bashiok, please go here:
http://us.battle.net/wow/en/forum/topic/2794770941

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Since many players have been saying to PvP players: "It is only 6 ilvls, suck it up". I believe many have the misunderstanding that this is just a "Tier Set" of 5 pieces, it is actually an entire gear set of 12 pieces that have been changed (14 if you include Trinkets).

Total honor to replace all 12 pieces: 19,450
Honor to replace two PvP Trinkets: add another 3,300
Honor for PvP Head/Shoulder Enchant: add another 3,000

I will focus on the 12 pieces of primary gear and illustrate the difference. Keep in mind, even the top 0.5% Arena and RBG players at the end of Season 9 were currently in i365 gear as well.

5-Piece Main Warrior PvP Set: Chest, Helm, Legs, Shoulder, Hands.
Increase from i365 to i371 Gear (totals across only 5-pc set and not including off pieces)

+ 250 armor
+ 93 Strength
+ 142 Stamina
+ 62 Resil.
+ 14 Mastery, +14 Crit, +14 Haste, +10 Exp., +10 Hit

Ok if it was just the "Tier" model of 5 pieces that changed... not game breaking but still annoying.

Now lets add up the base stats for the seven other standard PvP off-pieces: Belt, Boots, Bracer, 2 Rings, Neck and Cloak

+ 126 armor
+ 85 Strength
+ 136 Stamina
+ 60 Resil.
And an increase of +8 of another stat for each individual off-piece (Mastery, Hit, Expertise, Crit)

Grand Total of base stats alone for 12 pieces of Warrior gear: 5pc Main set, Belt, Boots, Bracer, 2 Rings, Neck, Cloak:

+ 376 Armor
+ 178 Strength
+ 278 Stamina
+ 122 Resil.

Add it all up and you can better understand why a 0.5% top Arena player might be a little upset about the fact the new Honor gear is this much higher in stats over their hard earned and fully enchanted Season 9 gear they expected to start Season 10 in.

End of Season 9 Blog: http://us.battle.net/wow/en/blog/2880562
Quote: "All Season 9 items will cost Honor Points (equivalent to their previous Conquest Point cost) when the season ends, with the exception of any items with rating requirements attached. These items will no longer be available for purchase."

Except this new Tier of Honor gear is called: "Vicious Gladiator - Season 10" and is not Season 9 Gear like they state above, it is a whole new ilvl and tier of gear. There is no mention of the S10 i371 Honor gear that I have found from a Blizzard posting and the gear was not on the PTR either.

Expect to see lots of BG botters, RBG teams and Arena players in regular Battlegrounds for the next few weeks as people now will re-grind honor to start Season 10 in competitively matched gear. They won't be getting their Conquest gear for a while so this is the only option they have to stay at the top of the ladder and at 2000+ rating... the stat change across a 12-piece set of PvP gear does make a difference.
Edited by Tauranewone on 7/8/2011 6:34 PM PDT
85 Troll Priest
4155
Finally... a post {of the dozens on th is} that makes me understand why you're all so angry... tyvm for the well written arguement.. you've swayed me. I too would be angry had all my conquest gear been replaced by honor gear.
70 Dwarf Warrior
440
07/06/2011 10:59 AMPosted by Redneckmedic
Finally... a post {of the dozens on th is} that makes me understand why you're all so angry... tyvm for the well written arguement.. you've swayed me. I too would be angry had all my conquest gear been replaced by honor gear.

Totally agree. So much rage and not enough clear posting. Well done OP. I would also recommend posting this in the main discussion about this since duplicate posts on topics can sometimes get moderated.
85 Human Rogue
2000
Grand Total of base stats alone for 12 pieces of Warrior gear: 5pc Main set, Belt, Boots, Bracer, 2 Rings, Neck, Cloak:

+ 376 Armor
+ 178 Strength
+ 278 Stamina
+ 122 Resil.

So the difference amounts to... less than one item's worth of stats? That's almost depressing, really.
Wow. A whole 3k HP, 400 AP, and 122 resil.

Yeah, that's definately game changing.
90 Gnome Warlock
12430
This post perfectly illustrates the arguement. I also believe that this arguement is 100% valid, if you are in the top, let's say, 10% of arena players. I think the outrage from the other 90% is stupid because they are literally whining to whine and not because of the math you provided. At 1500 Arena rating, 2 teams face each other. At 1500, it will probably not be the gear that wins the fight because one team could secretly be amazing and the other a legitimate 1500 team. At 2500, 2 teams face each other. They are a lot closer in skill by the nature of the rating system. At that point, one peice of gear, providing that increase in stats you provided, will/may be the difference in a win/loss.

However, let's look at the stats another way. You say

Grand Total of base stats alone for 12 pieces of Warrior gear: 5pc Main set, Belt, Boots, Bracer, 2 Rings, Neck, Cloak:

+ 376 Armor
+ 178 Strength
+ 278 Stamina
+ 122 Resil.


Now, for a warrior, assuming 359 weapon 3.6 speed.

This is +0.25% mitigation to physical damage from armor.
+ Approximately 400 AP which is +28.5 weapon DPS which with weapon mentioned above, 102.6 damage added to lowend and highend damage on the weapon.
+2.0% (Approximately, varies on enchants, assuming 130,000 hp in 365 ilvl gear) Health.
+1% damage reduction from resilience.

It appears, from a different perspective, that this is all negligable in the grand scheme of things. Will half of 1 hit make the difference? Can a 20k obliterate not kill you if you are in a position to die? Will 3k health make your healer (assuming you have one) able to keep you alive? Will it save you from a stun lock? Will it save you from RNG? Will your increase in 100 weapon damage and 28 DPS make the same differences on someone else?

Like I mentioned before, at 2500+ it might. In fact, it more than likely could. At 2800+, the percentage it will have an impact increases.
But for a majority of the population at 1500, it means nothing. At half of the people who are complaining for the sake of complaining, who may or may have not even set foot in an arena, it will mean even less.
In Battlegrounds, when you are being attacked by 20 people at once or when you are attacking someone being healed by 3 druids a priest and a paladin, it means 0.



Regarding my stance: I do agree that Blizzard made a mistake and I am not defending them. I do, however, think the community may be overreacting as a whole and needs to calm down a bit and look at the situation's impact on WoW.

I did grind all of the honor with the exception of helmet, chest, and shoulders last weekend and I have competed 2200+ brackets and similar since S3 on various toons. So I do understand personally where people are coming from.
Edited by Murlock on 7/6/2011 11:32 AM PDT
85 Tauren Warrior
3265
07/06/2011 11:04 AMPosted by Raktajino
Totally agree. So much rage and not enough clear posting. Well done OP. I would also recommend posting this in the main discussion about this since duplicate posts on topics can sometimes get moderated.


I did put a posting similar to this in the main discussion thread but it has moved so fast and capped several times now that the details are lost in the hundreds of postings.

Hopefully this brings a better understanding of why there are so many threads on this topic and the impact the late addition of i371 gear has had on the PvP community. I really feel bad for the Season 9 top ranked players who will now grind 20,000 honor to replace their hard earned Season 9 gear with honor gear so they can stay on top.

Oh and don't forget a whole new set of Gems and Enchants for your Helm, Chest, Shoulder, Legs, Bracer, Belt, Boots, Gloves and Cloak.
85 Gnome Priest
6240
The top .5% of pvpers you are referring to can beat 50% of the rest of the players with no gear and a weapon. So this minor stat difference isnt major especially at the start of the season before people have super high ratings.

It also doesnt take that long to get 26k honor. Sure its a grind if you do it all at once, but over the course of say 7 days thats 4k honor a day which is not hard to do at all. If your winning is 3 hours a day tops.

You also have to factor in that you will be gaining CP from week to week and you have to spend it since it caps before you get to the total you need to buy the new weapon, so you wont need to buy the entire set since some of the pieces will be upgraded with CP to ruthless so you wont have buy these with honor.

If you already had full S9 before the end of the season, sure it kinda sucks to have to grind out another honor set.

But the bulk of the ppl crying bloody murder in all the QQ rants hardly even pvp at all and didnt have any pvp gear which is why they felt the need to grind out the entire set in a week to begin with. A good chunk of them didnt even had the blue set, which shows they didnt really pvp much they just wanted to do it because they saw a chance to get free lolepics.

Now they are mad they spent 20 hrs afk farming honor in AV this weekend for multiple characters, when 20 hrs of pvping overall isnt really a lot if you like pvp. Back in the day to get HWL people were grinding 20 hrs a day for months to get that title. I only got to rank 9, but I do respect that HWL grind for thhe ppl that did it. Thh\ey had a legit complaint. People that ground 20 hrs for a full set of epics is not.

Sure, its a lot to do it one block, THATs why normally you accumulate the full set over the course of a season not in one day.
90 Human Death Knight
13525
[quote="27864485199"]Hopefully this brings a better understanding of why there are so many threads on this topic and the impact the late addition of i371 gear has had on the PvP community. I really feel bad for the Season 9 top ranked players who will now grind 20,000 honor to replace their hard earned Season 9 gear with honor gear so they can stay on top.

Oh and don't forget a whole new set of Gems and Enchants for your Helm, Chest, Shoulder, Legs, Bracer, Belt, Boots, Gloves and Cloak.


These two points. (Again this is Murlock, switched toons. I don't want people to feel I'm increasing support one way or the other. This toon is mor relevant because it grinded the honor)

The "Season 9 top ranked players". They are impacted greatly where, as you go down the ladder, the impact is felt less and less.

Also, the gold that went in to enchanting and gemming all the grinded gear is essentially wasted, again, for the top ranked players. Those lesser, where they did grind and enchant and gem their gear, it will not make as much of a difference, on those peices, if they were 6 ilvls higher and while it sucks, the gear will be replaced by future endeavors in arena and conquest point gear regardless.
85 Tauren Warrior
3265
Murlock: Yes I totally agree, for the majority the stat differential isn't all that game breaking except for the top rated players. The main and valid complaint is the way the honor gear changes were handled.

Added "bonus" and annoyance to players... the new i371 honor gear looks exactly the same as the old i352 gear...

Warrior Gear
Blue: i352 Bloodthirsty Gladiator Honor Gear (Patch 4.0.3 - Nov 2010)
Green: i365 Vicious Gladiator Season 9
Brown: i365 Vicious Gladiator Season 9 Elite (High ranked players)
Blue: i371 Vicious Gladiator Season 10 Honor Gear (Same look as Bloodthirsty)

If I saw a dude in Brown gear... I knew that guy is going to be tough. Now if they are in blue... hmmmm. They could have at least added a new color to the gear set to differentiate it (make it Grey, Purple, whatever).
90 Human Death Knight
13525
This thread was about comparison so I strayed away from the main complaint about the gear switch/addition/removal. But like I stated at the end of my intial post. I do think Blizzard made a large mistake. Between this and the early honor/conquest removal, things have spiraled out of control in the community.

However, perhaps this oversight is because of the bug and the early conquest -> honor conversion? It is my understanding that the gear from the previous season should not have been changed until this week either. I could be wrong on when the gear was supposed to be switched over but that could be the cause for the last minute oversight and completely crucifying Blizzard as the community has done is wrong instead of being as constructive as this post has been.

One main reason I've decided to post here is, in fact, because its constructive and not filled with ramblings about wanting compensation and "I quit" QQ's etc...

Also, the change in color you mentioned does kind of suck. I never really thought about that because I usually look at health/mana/shoulders and determine if I can go toe-to-toe with someone. Being a Death Knight, I usually can regardless.
85 Tauren Warrior
3265
Thanks Skeith. Like I said, the main point of this post was to illustrate the effect the gear differential has on stats (actual numbers people can see). A full PvP set will span 14 slots if you include trinkets and that is a significant number of pieces to replace.

To be fair, I looked up the stats for some other classes:

i365 to i371 Stat change for 12 pieces of PvP gear: 5pc Main set, Belt, Boots, Bracer, 2 Rings, Neck, Cloak


Mage
+ 275 Armor
+ 178 Int.
+ 278 Stamina
+ 122 Resil.

Rogue
+ 294 Armor
+ 178 Agility
+ 279 Stamina
+ 122 Resil.

As you can see there is a pattern here in regards to the base stat increases from i365 to i371. The above numbers do not take into account the increase in a secondary stat like Crit, Hit, Haste, Expertise or Mastery on each piece depending on gear choice (although those are only +8 to +14 each depending on piece).

Game changing numbers, no. Enough of a stat differential for players to grind honor to get the extra stats because they want to have the best gear, yes.
70 Human Mage
480
Making another thread about the same topic is spam. I understand you want people to read your post, but they have a very long thread for this very reason.
85 Dwarf Hunter
3650
The top .5% of pvpers you are referring to can beat 50% of the rest of the players with no gear and a weapon.


They could beat you, because you couldn't hit a lvl 84. The point is people put in time and money for items that they "thought" they would be able to use.

Fix it blizz
85 Dwarf Hunter
3650
07/06/2011 04:51 PMPosted by Robertzep
Making another thread about the same topic is spam. I understand you want people to read your post, but they have a very long thread for this very reason.


Did you hear blizz is creating a new ilvl 189 lvl 70 PVP gear? For new accounts. And most of the other threads are either full or deleted.

Thanks
85 Blood Elf Paladin
5200
threads like ppl said are being deleted and so are posts. The only option now is to create multiple threads obviously.

So /bump
85 Gnome Rogue
3100
threads like ppl said are being deleted and so are posts. The only option now is to create multiple threads obviously.

So /bump


It's the multiple threads that are being deleted. The one long one that is on it's, I think, 5th thread now is going strong. Blizzard generally likes to keep all commenting in one thread where they can easily moderate it.

This thread is sort of different, so I wouldn't necessarily say it is a violation, but in general, it probably could have been posted there.
70 Human Mage
480
07/06/2011 05:04 PMPosted by Caoilte
Making another thread about the same topic is spam. I understand you want people to read your post, but they have a very long thread for this very reason.


Did you hear blizz is creating a new ilvl 189 lvl 70 PVP gear? For new accounts. And most of the other threads are either full or deleted.

Thanks


I have level 85 characters, and that's irrelevant.



threads like ppl said are being deleted and so are posts. The only option now is to create multiple threads obviously.

So /bump


They are being deleted because they are spam.
Must be nice to be able to gear up in a week.

Sucks they didn't tell you but would have asked my self why the gear for the next session came out a week before the last session ended they have never released it early before and they even withheld the new BH boss for a week.
85 Tauren Warrior
3265
The initial 5-piece gear warrior stats difference I showed at the top was posted in Part 3 of that massive thread here:
http://us.battle.net/wow/en/forum/topic/2786568846?page=6#104

Odds are no one is going to sit and read Part 1 through Part 5 (over 3000 posts now) except Blizzard who is monitoring that discussion. I hoped by creating this side thread, I could illustrate the impact the gear change actually has on the base stats compared to the Season 9 Gear.

(Edit: Corrected link to go direct to posting #)
Edited by Tauranewone on 7/6/2011 5:29 PM PDT
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