i365 Vicious vs i371 Vicious - Comparison

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85 Goblin Hunter
10295
07/06/2011 05:48 PMPosted by Zarhym
We've seen a lot of players ask what the purpose is of having Season 9 items available for purchase with Honor Points for a week, before replacing them with better items. The purpose was for people to spend their excess Honor Points on any leftover items, as once the next season starts players can't keep more than 4,000 HP to spend. Now, the reason why this intent wasn't evident to most players is because we capped HP a week too early, which made spending any Honor Points last week less than ideal. The reality is players would have been better off saving 4,000 HP for the start of Season 10 when ilvl 371 gear was released. But they had no way of knowing that.


But you see, we don't NEED this extra week to purchase extra gear. We are warned well enough in advance of when the season ends, so everyone can ALREADY buy what we need without the extra week. Instead, allow us to buy the new low tier during the inter-season in order to prepare for the new season, the exact same way raiders were already able to get raid gear during the inter-season.
85 Night Elf Druid
8885

Add it all up and you can better understand why a 0.5% top Arena player might be a little upset about the fact the new Honor gear is this much higher in stats over their hard earned and fully enchanted Season 9 gear they expected to start Season 10 in.


Let me get this straight... you are complaining about having to work on gearing up for arena like everyone else? I would think you so called top 0.5% of sandbox pvper would actually welcome the challenge of starting an arena where the tables are even at the start of the arena for all players.

Then again having a high personal rating from prior season doesn't really require you to play more than a couple dozen games to climb back up into the 2200+ ratings. The only challenge that the e-sport offers is the grind to 2200+ if you are new to arena.
90 Undead Rogue
15015
I made this point in one of the capped threads, but only using estimated numbers.

Great post and kudos to you for doing the extra legwork and putting the actual numbers in.

People really need to stop looking at just the number 6.
90 Human Death Knight
14000
Thanks for making a clear-cut thread summarizing why this is a big issue within the PvP community, Tauranewone. To keep communication on this as clear as possible, I'll try and clarify what has happened with the transition between Seasons 9 and 10, as well as give you our take. For everyone reading along, please do not create new threads on this issue. We'll be primarily watching this one and would prefer to keep our forums as easy to read as possible.

Before getting into it, I want you all to know that we've maintained an open dialog with our developers over the past 24 hours regarding the way in which the PvP season transition went down since patch 4.2 (this includes relaying a lot of the feedback we've seen on the forums to them). We agree that the mistakes made were very unfortunate and unfair to a lot of players. We're currently exploring some options to try and alleviate some of the misfortune many of you experienced while purchasing PvP gear in the last week.

First off, to be clear, we made two mistakes which led to the primary cause of frustration for players:

    1) We noted that Conquest Points were going to be converted into Honor Points above the 4,000 cap with the release of patch 4.2, giving players one week to spend these excess points before the start of Season 10, at which point the 4,000 point cap would go into effect. Instead, the Honor Point cap intended to be enforced yesterday was applied at the same time Conquest Points were converted to Honor Points with patch 4.2. This led many players who saved Conquest Points up for the season transition to receive gold for any Honor Points above 4,000, rather than points above that cap. There wasn't a feasible solution for correcting the fact that the calculations had been run a week early.

    2) We didn't notify players that we made a slight change to the way PvP gear is introduced each season. The change simply wasn't communicated among all of the other patch 4.2 changes, which was a big oversight on our part.

These two errors compounded each other. Players were left with no more than 4,000 Honor Points after patch 4.2, which led many players to farm more HP to buy Season 9 gear. Then, when Season 10 hit yesterday, Season 9 (ilvl 365) items were replaced with an HP tier of Season 10 (ilvl 371) items. Since players didn't know this would happen, many of you farmed HP and spent it on the Season 9 items prior to yesterday's maintenance.

Obviously most of you already know what happened and are very frustrated by it, but I just want to clarify the nature of the unrest, as well as the intended way this season transition was to happen. This is the way it should have worked, and how it should work going forward:

    1) During any season, a low tier of current-season items will be available for purchase with Honor Points.
    2) During any season, a high tier of current-season items will be available for purchase with Conquest Points.
    3) At the end of any season, any remaining Conquest Points will be converted into Honor Points above the 4,000 cap.
    4) In between seasons, the previous high tier of items become available for purchase with Honor Points, allowing anyone who could not previously afford them with CP one last chance to buy them using the excess Honor Points.
    5) The new season begins. Honor Points are capped at 4,000 again. The previous season's sets are removed and replaced with current-season HP and CP items.

We've seen a lot of players ask what the purpose is of having Season 9 items available for purchase with Honor Points for a week, before replacing them with better items. The purpose was for people to spend their excess Honor Points on any leftover items, as once the next season starts players can't keep more than 4,000 HP to spend. Now, the reason why this intent wasn't evident to most players is because we capped HP a week too early, which made spending any Honor Points last week less than ideal. The reality is players would have been better off saving 4,000 HP for the start of Season 10 when ilvl 371 gear was released. But they had no way of knowing that.

That is about all of the information I have to share on this subject at the moment, but I want to remind you that the issues with this season transition are well on our radar. We know we messed up in multiple ways. This not only made our intentions very unclear, but led players to make choices to spend their Honor Points they otherwise probably would not have made.

If everything went according to plan, you probably would've spent any HP over the 4,000 cap last week on any remaining Season 9 items you maybe didn't have. You then would have saved 4,000 HP to get started on the low tier Season 10 items. This is the way we're looking at it and will let you know if and when we have more information to share.


Thank you for the post Zarhym.

I read through the next 6 pages so let me see what I can recall:

This situation is definitely tricky and is seemingly a no-win situation. No matter what happens, outside of, as someone mentioned, conjuring 1.21 Gigawatts to send us back in time which is completely unreasonable in itself, most solutions mentioned will still leave a portion of the playerbase put off.

In the end, the one aspect that will keep popping its head up is gold invested. Rare quality gems + enchants, some of which cost upwards of 1,000g if not more, will be lost. Irreplaceable. The only way to alleviate the loss in gold would be to just remove the new items. That hurts those who already purchased the newer items. Reducing the newer items iLvl causes the same problem because it would have been "I just replaced my old gear with the newer gear which is, in reality, now the same gear I just replaced."

Not to mention there are many many technical requirements which may or may not be possible at this point in time, due to the nature of the incident, that many players have no understanding of. (Unless they themselves design and code games.) I, myself, do not design games but I can imagine some of the difficulties.

I feel like this topic has pretty much already covered everything that needs to be said or should be said by this point. The only thing left is updated status on the issue, as those updates become available, and trying to keep the players in the light. For the playerbase and forum-goers, I think patience is a must at this point in time. Rome wasn't built in a day. It is unreasonable to assume that someone can snap their fingers and everything is better again. It would be best to, instead of asking the same question a million times or exacerbating the issue at hand with complaining, to try and discuss the best potential, reasonable fixes and what to do in the future season transitions.

Some have already explained what they would like to see. Either tradable items and honor compensation.

I personally feel like there should be no compensation because what happened happened and everyone is at the same disadvantage. Looking at it negatively, we all wasted time. Looking at it positively, we now have nice shiney gear that we can farm in. As a side note, it is also possible for those of us who did farm a full set of vicious gear to be competitive in arenas and rated BG's now instead of being in our socketless blue crafted gear or pve gear or superior quality bloodthirsty gear. Taking this perspective, we can cap our conquest points this week and farm 371 gear in spare time. The season just started! We have months to go still!

Also, a point to take into consideration, what about the crafted gear? Same thing happened. New crafted gear became available from the old recipies requiring the SAME materials. 6 ilvls difference for the same price. What if I just leveled and bought all the old gear off the AH? Now I have to buy it again at jacked up prices because it was all replaced by the newer stuff. Some people, even with the patch notes, were clueless to that change. Some people in this thread probably don't even realize that happened. But it did. No compensation to those who crafted their set two weeks ago right? Anyways, I digress

Sure we were all wronged. It is not the end of the world. We who farmed full vicious are now able to compete in arenas better than we could have at the end of last season now regardless.

We also grinded this honor for something we would have saved for anyways at the end of last season. So we are asking for a free upgrade from what we WOULD have had if everything happened according to plan. I think this is a big point that was posted while I was typing this.

During the interseason, I just don't think there should be this new "low tier" of gear. I think it should just be the old conquest gear available for honor. It should be similar to how the Justice Point system is. That is working fine. If we must have this lower tier to keep things more balanced, than as mentioned prior, we should be able to purchase this new set immediately, during the intersession, than at the start of the new season. 1 week of down time is 168 hours of farm time!

Edited by Skeith on 7/7/2011 6:09 AM PDT
90 Human Paladin
7705
meh if you can grind an entire set in one week and complain I suggest blizzard nerfs honor gains by 200%


I grinded every pieice of PVP gear I'm wearing in a few days I dont care that the change has occured I will just buy the pieices ive yet to purchase and will be stronger for it..


I dont get why you guys are complaining so much its annoying but hardly worthy if some of the QQ in these threads/
So what happened to not having to "grind" every season.

I cant seem to find the blue post stating this anymore but I know someone said it.

I would like to know why the "old" conquest gear is worse than the new honor gear?
I don't understand it.
85 Blood Elf Priest
10645
Glad to see the response, though I'm more into action than talk. We're just asking for a refund of all S9 purchased since 4.2 went live, nothing less, nothing more.

Here's hoping by next weeks maintenance, we'll see the change.
85 Dwarf Shaman
1390
YAY! hopefully we get our compensation sooner than later!
90 Undead Priest
16585
I like the idea of just replacing the new 371 with the season 9 at the vendor and refunding all new purchases of s10 with a soft honor cap in place. Since the gear has only been out a few days, refunding the new purchases would be less destructive to player moral than making last weeks buys obsolete. Going forward I have to question why we need, or would want, to gather two seperate sets of gear gear each season....
90 Human Paladin
7705
Glad to see the response, though I'm more into action than talk. We're just asking for a refund of all S9 purchased since 4.2 went live, nothing less, nothing more.

Here's hoping by next weeks maintenance, we'll see the change.


if all you plan to do is get the honor gear doesnt it matter if you get it later?

just give the people who complain 4k in the mailbox and take away all their PVP gear eanred during this week
85 Undead Rogue
4600
step one convert any s10 vicious to honor

step two remove s10 vicious. / restore any vendored s9 vicious(infact not even necessary)

there.. everyone is where they should be and you lost less enchants since 11pm tues. then you would have grinding all last week.

minimum collateral damage!
Edited by Squaresoft on 7/6/2011 7:35 PM PDT
85 Human Priest
13685
There is absolutely no reason for two different sets of gear that can be purchased with honor. Why would anyone want to refarm honor after farming conquest after farming honor. That is like having to go back to clear the previous tier of raiding content (after clearing it already) before you can raid the new content.
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