i365 Vicious vs i371 Vicious - Comparison

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85 Gnome Rogue
3100
07/06/2011 05:26 PMPosted by Tauranewone
Odds are no one is going to sit and read Part 1 through Part 5 (over 3000 posts now) except Blizzard who is monitoring that discussion.


Not to argue with you, but aren't they the only people who matter?

Just to add: I appreciate the work that went into your post, regardless of my opinion. Well done, sir.
Edited by Stalkyou on 7/6/2011 5:39 PM PDT
Community Manager
Thanks for making a clear-cut thread summarizing why this is a big issue within the PvP community, Tauranewone. To keep communication on this as clear as possible, I'll try and clarify what has happened with the transition between Seasons 9 and 10, as well as give you our take. For everyone reading along, please do not create new threads on this issue. We'll be primarily watching this one and would prefer to keep our forums as easy to read as possible.

Before getting into it, I want you all to know that we've maintained an open dialog with our developers over the past 24 hours regarding the way in which the PvP season transition went down since patch 4.2 (this includes relaying a lot of the feedback we've seen on the forums to them). We agree that the mistakes made were very unfortunate and unfair to a lot of players. We're currently exploring some options to try and alleviate some of the misfortune many of you experienced while purchasing PvP gear in the last week.

First off, to be clear, we made two mistakes which led to the primary cause of frustration for players:

    1) We noted that Conquest Points were going to be converted into Honor Points above the 4,000 cap with the release of patch 4.2, giving players one week to spend these excess points before the start of Season 10, at which point the 4,000 point cap would go into effect. Instead, the Honor Point cap intended to be enforced yesterday was applied at the same time Conquest Points were converted to Honor Points with patch 4.2. This led many players who saved Conquest Points up for the season transition to receive gold for any Honor Points above 4,000, rather than points above that cap. There wasn't a feasible solution for correcting the fact that the calculations had been run a week early.

    2) We didn't notify players that we made a slight change to the way PvP gear is introduced each season. The change simply wasn't communicated among all of the other patch 4.2 changes, which was a big oversight on our part.

These two errors compounded each other. Players were left with no more than 4,000 Honor Points after patch 4.2, which led many players to farm more HP to buy Season 9 gear. Then, when Season 10 hit yesterday, Season 9 (ilvl 365) items were replaced with an HP tier of Season 10 (ilvl 371) items. Since players didn't know this would happen, many of you farmed HP and spent it on the Season 9 items prior to yesterday's maintenance.

Obviously most of you already know what happened and are very frustrated by it, but I just want to clarify the nature of the unrest, as well as the intended way this season transition was to happen. This is the way it should have worked, and how it should work going forward:

    1) During any season, a low tier of current-season items will be available for purchase with Honor Points.
    2) During any season, a high tier of current-season items will be available for purchase with Conquest Points.
    3) At the end of any season, any remaining Conquest Points will be converted into Honor Points above the 4,000 cap.
    4) In between seasons, the previous high tier of items become available for purchase with Honor Points, allowing anyone who could not previously afford them with CP one last chance to buy them using the excess Honor Points.
    5) The new season begins. Honor Points are capped at 4,000 again. The previous season's sets are removed and replaced with current-season HP and CP items.

We've seen a lot of players ask what the purpose is of having Season 9 items available for purchase with Honor Points for a week, before replacing them with better items. The purpose was for people to spend their excess Honor Points on any leftover items, as once the next season starts players can't keep more than 4,000 HP to spend. Now, the reason why this intent wasn't evident to most players is because we capped HP a week too early, which made spending any Honor Points last week less than ideal. The reality is players would have been better off saving 4,000 HP for the start of Season 10 when ilvl 371 gear was released. But they had no way of knowing that.

That is about all of the information I have to share on this subject at the moment, but I want to remind you that the issues with this season transition are well on our radar. We know we messed up in multiple ways. This not only made our intentions very unclear, but led players to make choices to spend their Honor Points they otherwise probably would not have made.

If everything went according to plan, you probably would've spent any HP over the 4,000 cap last week on any remaining Season 9 items you maybe didn't have. You then would have saved 4,000 HP to get started on the low tier Season 10 items. This is the way we're looking at it and will let you know if and when we have more information to share.
Edited by Zarhym on 7/6/2011 6:13 PM PDT
85 Tauren Warrior
3265

Not to argue with you, but aren't they the only people who matter?

Just to add: I appreciate the work that went into your post, regardless of my opinion. Well done, sir.


True and I have already put my comments in that thread for them to see. And thanks, it took me some time to dig up the appropriate value changes to try and be relatively thorough in providing a gear comparison.

Any discussions about how the change happened, etc should still stay in that thread. It is unfortunate that a majority of the more recent postings I have seen there are not constructive in any way.

70 Human Mage
480
Thanks for making a clear-cut thread summarizing why this is a big issue within the PvP community, Tauranewone. To keep communication on this as clear as possible, I'll try and clarify what has happened with the transition between Season 9 and 10, as well as give you our take. For everyone reading along, please do not create new threads on this issue. We'll be primarily watching this one and would prefer to keep our forums as easy to read as possible.

Before getting into it, I want you all to know that we've maintained an open dialog with our developers over the past 24 hours regarding the way in which the PvP season transition went down since patch 4.2 (this includes relaying a lot of the feedback we've seen on the forums to them). We agree that the mistakes made were very unfortunate and unfair to a lot of players. We're currently exploring some options to try and alleviate some of the misfortune many of you experienced while purchasing PvP gear in the last week.

First off, to be clear, we made two mistakes which led to the primary cause of frustration for players:

    1) We noted that Conquest Points were going to be converted into Honor Points above the 4,000 cap with the release of patch 4.2, giving players one week to spend these excess points before the start of Season 10, at which point the 4,000 point cap would go into effect. Instead, the Honor Point cap intended to be enforced yesterday was applied at the same time Conquest Points were converted to Honor Points with patch 4.2. This led many players who saved Conquest Points up for the season transition to receive gold for any Honor Points above 4,000, rather than points above that cap. There wasn't a feasible solution for correcting the fact that the calculations had been run a week early.

    2) We didn't notify players that we made a slight change to the way PvP gear is introduced each season. The change simply wasn't communicated among all of the other patch 4.2 changes, which was a big oversight on our part.

These two errors compacted each other. Players were left with no more than 4,000 Honor Points after patch 4.2, which led many players to farm more HP to buy Season 9 gear. Then, when Season 10 hit yesterday, Season 9 (ilvl 365) items were replaced with an HP tier of Season 10 (ilvl 371) items. Since players didn't know this would happen, many of you farmed HP and spent it on the Season 9 items prior to yesterday's maintenance.

Obviously most of you already know what happened and are very frustrated by it, but I just want to clarify the nature of the unrest, as well as the intended way this season transition was to happen. This is the way it should have worked, and how it should work going forward:

    1) During any season, a low tier of current-season items will be available for purchase with Honor Points.
    2) During any season, a high tier of current-season items will be available for purchase with Conquest Points.
    3) At the end of any season, any remaining Conquest Points will be converted into Honor Points above the 4,000 cap.
    4) In between seasons, the previous high tier of items becomes available for purchase with Honor Points, allowing anyone who could not previously afford them with CP one last chance to buy them using the excess Honor Points.
    5) The new season begins. Honor Points are capped at 4,000 again. The previous season's sets are removed and replaced with current-season HP and CP items.

We've seen a lot of players ask what the purpose is of having Season 9 items available for purchase with Honor Points for a week, before replacing them with better items. The purpose was for people to spend their excess Honor Points on any leftover items, as once the next season starts players can't keep more than 4,000 HP to spend. Now, the reason why this intent wasn't evident to most players is because we capped HP a week too early, which made spending any Honor Points last week less than ideal. The reality is players would have been better off saving 4,000 HP for the start of Season 10 when ilvl 371 gear was released. But they had no way of knowing that.

That is about all of the information I have to share on this subject at the moment, but I want to remind you that the issues with this season transition are well on our radar. We know we messed up in multiple ways. This not only made our intentions very unclear, but led players to make choices to spend their Honor Points they otherwise probably would not have made.

If everything went according to plan, you probably would've spent any HP over the 4,000 cap last week on any remaining Season 9 items you maybe didn't have. You then would have saved 4,000 HP to get started on the low tier Season 10 items. This is the way we're looking at it and will let you know if and when we have more information to share.


An official and well-said response! Thank you!
85 Tauren Warrior
3265
Thank you Zarhym and I appreciate you taking the time to explain it in more detail.
85 Gnome Rogue
3100

Not to argue with you, but aren't they the only people who matter?

Just to add: I appreciate the work that went into your post, regardless of my opinion. Well done, sir.


True and I have already put my comments in that thread for them to see. And thanks, it took me some time to dig up the appropriate value changes to try and be relatively thorough in providing a gear comparison.

Any discussions about how the change happened, etc should still stay in that thread. It is unfortunate that a majority of the more recent postings I have seen there are not constructive in any way.


Awesome, you even got Z to reply. Good luck.
46 Goblin Rogue
480
07/06/2011 05:48 PMPosted by Zarhym
Now, the reason why this intent wasn't evident to most players is because we capped HP a week too early, which made spending any Honor Points last week less than ideal.


Actually, the reason why it wasn't evident to players is because no one from Blizzard actually told the players it was going to happen.

If you blues are going to address an issue, could it hurt to acknowledge that you guys SHOULD have told the community what was going to happen, given that what was going to happen has never happened in the past?

And perhaps, just perhaps, you could have communicated with the developers (or the developers communicated with you, or US) prior to the past 24 hours?

Your post is implying that the lack of communication on a pretty substantial change in PvP gears for the new season was just an unfortunate accident.

Have you guys not learned in the 6 or 7 years that uncommunicated changes (especially relatively large ones that make people feel they 100% completely wasted anything they did for 1 full week) are bad? I would like to think the answer to that is "yes", but clearly someone on the community team or on the development team hasn't.
53 Human Rogue
600
It was specifically stated in the past that we would not have to grind unrated BGs for honor in between seasons anymore.

Have you now changed your mind about that, apparently?

Besides making people do the honor grind yet again, what purpose does it serve to introduce a slightly higher tier of gear for honor every season, instead of having the previous season's gear be the next season's honor gear?
Edited by Taterrsalad on 7/6/2011 5:55 PM PDT
90 Blood Elf Rogue
10770
Thank you Zarhym, for responding to our concerns and letting us know that someone is listening to us. It's much appreciated.
90 Blood Elf Warrior
11320
Thank you for finally responding.
90 Human Paladin
7705
I very rarely PVPed i spent all week doing it and got myself an epic set.


I was initially a little annoyed that i spent all that time and the gear was made redundant a week later but to be honest, having all this PVP gear now will make the grind up easier and I can only imagine it will only take another week before I'm fully set up again.
85 Goblin Mage
1450
Thanks for the explanation Zahrym, but those who farmed the s9 s365 set last week still expect some sort of compensation or option to exchange for the newer 371 gear...
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