i365 Vicious vs i371 Vicious - Comparison

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85 Human Death Knight
7150
07/08/2011 10:34 AMPosted by Esoteryx
I also have no doubt that the beancounters have already calculated the loss of x% subscriptions vs. developement cost of a fix. I suspect, due to where pvp falls in the big picture, that they will be willing to take the loss. So be it.


very sadly.....this ^^^
So be it indeed.
Just give us a vendor that, when you pop in 365 PvP gear, out pops the honor that was spent on it and any gems/enchants that were cast on it. Problem solved for everyone.


Quoting this since it is easily the best solution suggested thus far. Hell make the NPC Father Christmas, I don't care.
84 Undead Priest
2130
For people who don't understand how this stuff works, if it was just a matter of changing a database flag so you can return your gear, they probably would have done that already. To fix this, the problem is so much bigger than that.

How do we refund enchants, gems, etc? Or, do we even refund those? The more changes they make to their databases, the muddier the waters get and the more potential there is to create new bugs.

They may not be telling us but I'd almost guarantee that Blizz has already ran quite a few test scripts with different solutions and are seeing what impact it makes.



sooooooooo what does that mean? Blizz hope you know that if you refuse to do nothing, you will lose subscribers. It might not mean much to you, but thik on this, all those unhappy people are going to pass on their experience to their friends, coworkers and family and you will not only lose current subscribers but future subscribers.


It just means that if we decide we can do something to help, we will. We just aren't in a position currently to tell you anything more at this point in time. This isn't from any lack of desire. Again, it's about finding a way to do something that makes sense in a way that's fair to as many people as possible. If we find that solution, we will let you all know.
85 Human Death Knight
4790
I think the disparity of player opinions on the matter is directly related to how important time is to that person.

There are a bunch of kids on summer vacation siding with Blizzard on this because they literally don't work at all or only work like 20-40 hours a week. So, since you can jerk off all day in BGs and grind your set in 2-3 days, you don't get upset.

Consequently a very large portion of the player-base has essentially almost out-grown WOW in terms of real life obligations that we didn't have 7 years ago when we started playing in college. Kids, Mortgage, Marriage, Careers etc. People who are actually responsible adults really do suffer when they take an AV weekend off from RL to grind a set to get ready for the next season, only to find its inferior gear 3 days later. Some people can only play wow 8-9 hours a week - this means it will be another 3-4 weeks before they can even complete their honor set.

The point is, Wow has a very large dynamic playerbase and the short sighted people in this thread need to realize that. Blizzard really does need to compensate for this garbage move, I don't know a single person who isn't really upset by this. Maybe highschool kids or basement virgin dropouts are okay grinding it, but the average player is not cool with what just happened.

Had Blizzard properly announced this change, the community would not have reacted this way. But there seems to be a disconnect from the Devs, the CMs & the player-base - maybe WOW just isn't important to Blizzard anymore.
85 Human Paladin
7135
This is an MMORPG.

Let me rephrase that. This is A GIGANTIC, EPOCH SPANNING GRINDFEST OF TITANIC PROPORTIONS.

or rather, hey we heard you like to grind so we put some grinds in your grind so you could grind while you grind.

You're welcome.


lol'd and actually I now want to head home and grind... I guess what I'm all wadded up about is a repeat. I don't want to grind again and then have a ninja tier sneak in and ungrind my reground grounds. I know it's a grindfest and I like to play. I just don't want to regrind if they all of a sudden go "Oh, 'snap judgement', we decided to swap the 371's for the 365's after all. I'd like a few JP items as well.
84 Undead Priest
2130
07/08/2011 11:21 AMPosted by Hephâestion
Just give us a vendor that, when you pop in 365 PvP gear, out pops the honor that was spent on it and any gems/enchants that were cast on it. Problem solved for everyone.


Quoting this since it is easily the best solution suggested thus far. Hell make the NPC Father Christmas, I don't care.


Yes, Blizzard please pop this request in to the Code-O-Matic Warcraft NPC Churner. I expect it by tomorrow.

You people have to realize that things like this require hours and hours of developers and hours and hours of testing. And, by testing, I don't mean the PTR panty wastes. I mean really testing by qualified BA's.
85 Human Death Knight
4685
07/08/2011 11:21 AMPosted by Hephâestion
Just give us a vendor that, when you pop in 365 PvP gear, out pops the honor that was spent on it and any gems/enchants that were cast on it. Problem solved for everyone.


Quoting this since it is easily the best solution suggested thus far. Hell make the NPC Father Christmas, I don't care.


The amount of development time to create that would be staggering. As of now a vendor can only determine two things about a saleable item. Is it saleable and what currency to refund. Your asking for a vendor to be able to identify the socketed gems and enchant and then put those things in your bags as it refunds the currency. To be honest I doubt its even possible with the game engine and even if it was the amount of time they would spend on it wouldn't be worth it.

The gear change was present on the PTR for 4.2. I think next time you all will learn to actually check out the PTR to determine what changes effect you.

07/08/2011 11:21 AMPosted by Ishmail
I also have no doubt that the beancounters have already calculated the loss of x% subscriptions vs. developement cost of a fix. I suspect, due to where pvp falls in the big picture, that they will be willing to take the loss. So be it.


very sadly.....this ^^^
So be it indeed.


Why should they cut into content development time to try and satisfy you? Trust me they cut into PvE development time and the subscriber loss from bored raiders is far larger than PvP'ers who simply don't want to grind out a weeks worth of honor again lol.
85 Blood Elf Rogue
4565

sooooooooo what does that mean? Blizz hope you know that if you refuse to do nothing, you will lose subscribers. It might not mean much to you, but thik on this, all those unhappy people are going to pass on their experience to their friends, coworkers and family and you will not only lose current subscribers but future subscribers.


It just means that if we decide we can do something to help, we will. We just aren't in a position currently to tell you anything more at this point in time. This isn't from any lack of desire. Again, it's about finding a way to do something that makes sense in a way that's fair to as many people as possible. If we find that solution, we will let you all know.


I'm really, really disappointed that they don't just say "if you bought 365 viscous between date x and date y it is now the 371 item". I'm a database professional (working with very, very large databases) and this should be doable. Yes, some people might not be pleased with the aesthetics (on my pally, instead of having gold pieces, I'd have silver, oh well), but it seems like the best approach. I bought so many of the 365 pieces across 3 toons, it isn't funny. I, like other people, would have spent my time (and accumulated honor) differently if anyone had communicated this.
85 Gnome Priest
6240
I think the disparity of player opinions on the matter is directly related to how important time is to that person.

There are a bunch of kids on summer vacation siding with Blizzard on this because they literally don't work at all or only work like 20-40 hours a week. So, since you can jerk off all day in BGs and grind your set in 2-3 days, you don't get upset.

Consequently a very large portion of the player-base has essentially almost out-grown WOW in terms of real life obligations that we didn't have 7 years ago when we started playing in college. Kids, Mortgage, Marriage, Careers etc. People who are actually responsible adults really do suffer when they take an AV weekend off from RL to grind a set to get ready for the next season, only to find its inferior gear 3 days later. Some people can only play wow 8-9 hours a week - this means it will be another 3-4 weeks before they can even complete their honor set.

The point is, Wow has a very large dynamic playerbase and the short sighted people in this thread need to realize that. Blizzard really does need to compensate for this garbage move, I don't know a single person who isn't really upset by this. Maybe highschool kids or basement virgin dropouts are okay grinding it, but the average player is not cool with what just happened.

Had Blizzard properly announced this change, the community would not have reacted this way. But there seems to be a disconnect from the Devs, the CMs & the player-base - maybe WOW just isn't important to Blizzard anymore.


I'm grown and have a full-time job where I work 7am-6pm tues thru Sat. I also side with Blizzard on this so you are wrong.

Yes, they made a mistake but refunding or trading in gear is simply out of the question. The mechanics of the code dont work that way, it also not fair to the people that already had s9 when the season ended, and also not fair to the people that arent here QQing but actually went and earned the new gear.

The problem is all these instant gratification people saw a cheap way to gear up quick and now are mad that they might actually have to put some more effort into having BiS gear.

For some reason, people are only complaining about how many hours they had to grind to get the set, when:

1. Its better than what you had by a LONG margin evfen if it isnt s10 hp gear;

2. Grinding 26k honor is a lot easier than actually playing an entire arena season and actually having to win games to get the set with a limited amount of earnable CP per week its laughable in comparison;

3. This is an MMO complaining about grinding in an MMO is like complaining about water being wet. They arent forcing you to grind everything in one sitting, maybe you should take your own advice and pace yourself. Like I said earlier, because I DO work on a normal day I log in do firleands dailies, a ZG run and run a random BG before I have to goto bed. Doing *ONE* random BG a day since Tuesday so far I have earned enough honor to buy the S10 honor chest already. Thats 20min a day without even trying. So, its very feasible to actually get the entire set in a week with minimal time investment. One week with 365 instead of 371 gear isnt going to make or break you.


4. The entire reason you got the set was to pvp. PvP is supposed to be FUN. I know its the main reason i even still play WoW and I have fun doing it. If you are actually having fun, the honor just piles up and you dont even notice it.

5. Honor is not hard to get. By the end of last season because i actually pvped on a regular basis, I was basically dumping honor every other day on mounts and essences just to get rid of it. otherwsie it would cap and be wasted.

I personally defend Blizzard because it pisses me off that I did take the time to actually try and get the s9 set last season. I actually did do a bunch of BGs in bloodthirsty last season. I made due with what i had. But now all these people are getting a free handout and are on the forums complaining because the free cabernet isnt 1975 its 1982.

And the bulk of these same people are terrible ANYWAY, making my BG experience bad by causing me to play 3x as many games because we lose more than we win.

So ya, thats why I defend Blizzard. I do work, and I dont believe in handouts. Get it right homie.
85 Blood Elf Hunter
9400
This is an MMORPG.

Let me rephrase that. This is A GIGANTIC, EPOCH SPANNING GRINDFEST OF TITANIC PROPORTIONS.

or rather, hey we heard you like to grind so we put some grinds in your grind so you could grind while you grind.

You're welcome.


lol'd and actually I now want to head home and grind... I guess what I'm all wadded up about is a repeat. I don't want to grind again and then have a ninja tier sneak in and ungrind my reground grounds. I know it's a grindfest and I like to play. I just don't want to regrind if they all of a sudden go "Oh, 'snap judgement', we decided to swap the 371's for the 365's after all. I'd like a few JP items as well.


I feel you bro. I actually bought this 365 cape on a whim patch day. I should have waited. Seems like a total bonehead move on the part of those who implemented the change in the manner they did, but I tend to look at the bright side. At least I can get some killer gear for rolling nabs in unrated bgs and roll into arena for season 10 looking all fly.
85 Human Death Knight
4685


It just means that if we decide we can do something to help, we will. We just aren't in a position currently to tell you anything more at this point in time. This isn't from any lack of desire. Again, it's about finding a way to do something that makes sense in a way that's fair to as many people as possible. If we find that solution, we will let you all know.


I'm really, really disappointed that they don't just say "if you bought 365 viscous between date x and date y it is now the 371 item". I'm a database professional (working with very, very large databases) and this should be doable. Yes, some people might not be pleased with the aesthetics (on my pally, instead of having gold pieces, I'd have silver, oh well), but it seems like the best approach. I bought so many of the 365 pieces across 3 toons, it isn't funny. I, like other people, would have spent my time (and accumulated honor) differently if anyone had communicated this.


It more than likely is doable but the time to go through every character on every server in order to replace only 365 pieces purchased in the last week is staggering. You are assuming that the purchase history of each toon is stored in the same DB as character data which is a large assumption given that pre-wrath I needed an item restored on my main and they were unable to verify that I had ever purchased it with Badges of Justice. More than likely this is a more recent development tied into the RSS character feed in the armory just that GMs can see all the way back rather than just the last couple of days which means your solution can't be implemented with a simple search and replace DB query. It has to be hand done character by character.
85 Human Hunter
1270
Yes, Blizzard please pop this request in to the Code-O-Matic Warcraft NPC Churner. I expect it by tomorrow.

You people have to realize that things like this require hours and hours of developers and hours and hours of testing. And, by testing, I don't mean the PTR panty wastes. I mean really testing by qualified BA's.


So the hours and hours spent by thousands of subscribers, directly due to Blizzard's lack of communication, does not justify developer and testing time?

Honestly, I'm not terribly upset that my gear was outdated after a weekend grind, due to this flub. Stuff happens. However, the lack of effort to correct the mistake is disrespectful towards us consumers.

Make a decision with some sense of urgency, difficult or not. Gear isn't the issue, how you address correcting a mistake that cost people valuable time is the issue.
84 Undead Priest
2130
OMG Look.....OVER THERE!!! Someone is making sense!!!



I'm really, really disappointed that they don't just say "if you bought 365 viscous between date x and date y it is now the 371 item". I'm a database professional (working with very, very large databases) and this should be doable. Yes, some people might not be pleased with the aesthetics (on my pally, instead of having gold pieces, I'd have silver, oh well), but it seems like the best approach. I bought so many of the 365 pieces across 3 toons, it isn't funny. I, like other people, would have spent my time (and accumulated honor) differently if anyone had communicated this.


It more than likely is doable but the time to go through every character on every server in order to replace only 365 pieces purchased in the last week is staggering. You are assuming that the purchase history of each toon is stored in the same DB as character data which is a large assumption given that pre-wrath I needed an item restored on my main and they were unable to verify that I had ever purchased it with Badges of Justice. More than likely this is a more recent development tied into the RSS character feed in the armory just that GMs can see all the way back rather than just the last couple of days which means your solution can't be implemented with a simple search and replace DB query. It has to be hand done character by character.
70 Orc Warrior
2760
07/08/2011 11:21 AMPosted by Hephâestion
Just give us a vendor that, when you pop in 365 PvP gear, out pops the honor that was spent on it and any gems/enchants that were cast on it. Problem solved for everyone.


Quoting this since it is easily the best solution suggested thus far. Hell make the NPC Father Christmas, I don't care.

So, basically this will give free upgrades to EVERYONE with the ilvl 365 gear, not just the people who mistakenly spent last week grinding it.

The big problem with compensating people is knowing who needs upgrades because they were duped.
90 Tauren Death Knight
11855
There is a silver lining in this dark cloud:

Now every PVPer has an excuse (as happens EVERY season) as to why they personally didn't top out the rating leader boards.
70 Tauren Druid
3840


so i would like to know what Z meant by



seems one part of Blizz doesnt talk to another. <em/> <em/>


This simply means we are looking into ways in which we could alleviate the current issue that makes sense and is still fair to as many people as this has affected. Currently, support is unable to provide any recompense. Should this change or further action be possible on our end, we will let you all know. We don't want to promise something we can't deliver on and exacerbate the current situation.

We haven't done any of this intentionally nor is our intent to cause any further issues.


Well i just dont understand how you can so blatently screw over so many people with this so called "minor" issue yet do nothing to fix it. This is taking far to long all you guys are doing is waiting it out then its going to be to far gone for anything to be done in the first place. What the hell is wrong with blizzard lately. Im not one to go against a blue post and get ticked off over what is said, but these ridiculous run-around answers are getting very tiresome and out of control. You have a hu8ge playerbase that plays this game strickly for pvp you have also screwed that huge playerbase over in a pretty bad way. This game takes enough time out of peoples lives who try and be the best and what they do. You cant buy time. So fix the time that you have literally stolen from our lives with this stupid mess up.
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