4.2 almost cleared in 2weeks? Expected?

100 Human Priest
8870
im having a blast running the new content
Reply Quote
90 Tauren Druid
1040
Was actually talking to a guildy about this the other day. He directed me to the old Curse forum post of the world first Illidan kill back in '08 (http://www.curse.com/blogs/wow-en-news/archive/2008/09/17/N2059Id.aspx)

For anyone who doesn't trust links, here's the meat of Curse's post:

Just two weeks after the 2.1 patch release, the EU-Magtheridon guild Nihilum has completely cleared the Black Temple, with their kill of Illidan Stormrage this morning.


and here's the first comment from the readers:

Blizzard fails, this instance was supposed to be difficult? Yeah, my ass


A large number of the other comments express the same idea, with varying degrees of eloquence. Someone also points out that Kel'Thuzad was downed within 2 days. Bizarrely enough, it appears that top guilds have always been clearing things quickly. Who'da thunk it?

The more things change, the more they stay the same =)
Edited by Anagke on 7/7/2011 11:35 PM PDT
Reply Quote
85 Tauren Warrior
11105
07/07/2011 11:12 PMPosted by Kermet
(we only raid 25 man)


You're in a very very small minority of players anymore. 25 man raiding is dieing off, this isn't an opinion, every tracking site proves that it is indeed happening.

Players who are still doing 25 man raiding at this point are the few left that enjoy it, AND have computers and internet connections that can handle it. This is a shrinking number, the equalization of gear, and advent of the 10/25 man models in Wrath have proven that players enjoy the more intimate, personal, and independantly social format.


I don't mean to flame, I want to explain the gravity of the situation at hand. Your opinion on this is bias and part of a dieing breed.
Reply Quote
85 Undead Warlock
10120
07/07/2011 01:09 PMPosted by Daxxarri
Anyhow...was 4.2 designed to be quick like this?


I am endlessly intrigued to find players judging the difficulty of the encounters and how long lived the content is by how pro players, some of the most skilled and focused players in the world, engage the content. It's a little like judging the difficulty of juggling eight chainsaws by what the best jugglers in the world can accomplish. Sure, it might be easy for them, but when was the last time you tried it? (Do not attempt to juggle eight chainsaws. Do not attempt to juggle any chainsaws. Unless you are a juggler. A professional chainsaw juggler. A really, really good professional chainsaw juggler who does not fear chainsaw manglings.)

The content wasn't designed to be 'quick'. It was designed to be epic, engaging, challenging and fun. It can accomplish those goals without being punishing.

It is kind of remarkable how fun and engaging the content can be when we start judging content by what we accomplish and experience ourselves, rather than the posts we read on the forums or the headlines of a fansite.


My raid group is currently 6/7 as of today, while I have found some of the fights fun (Beth) the rest of them just seem, well gimmicky. I unfortunately don't get that "epic, engaging, challenging, and fun" feel. They feel only slightly more difficult than the tier 11 regular bosses.

I am myself disappointed that these seven bosses are supposed to last us all throughout the tier. I'm really hoping that we either get a multi raid tier or a longer raid with more dynamic boss fights for tier 13, because this raid to me feels very last minute put together, with lots of gimics to keep you playing it longer than you should (Legendary, Rep, Dailies, whole 9 yards.)

I would also suggest that for future content patches the tier set bonuses on gear were not as similar to other classes bonuses. It seems to me that most casters have the same bonuses, most melee have the same bonuses, tanks, healers etc. Takes the homogenization a little too far imo.
Reply Quote
85 Blood Elf Hunter
6370
Anyhow...was 4.2 designed to be quick like this?


I am endlessly intrigued to find players judging the difficulty of the encounters and how long lived the content is by how pro players, some of the most skilled and focused players in the world, engage the content. It's a little like judging the difficulty of juggling eight chainsaws by what the best jugglers in the world can accomplish. Sure, it might be easy for them, but when was the last time you tried it? (Do not attempt to juggle eight chainsaws. Do not attempt to juggle any chainsaws. Unless you are a juggler. A professional chainsaw juggler. A really, really good professional chainsaw juggler who does not fear chainsaw manglings.)

The content wasn't designed to be 'quick'. It was designed to be epic, engaging, challenging and fun. It can accomplish those goals without being punishing.

It is kind of remarkable how fun and engaging the content can be when we start judging content by what we accomplish and experience ourselves, rather than the posts we read on the forums or the headlines of a fansite.



Hate to break it to you, but I started playing in vanilla and I've been paying attention to the difficulty and honestly I raided a lot in BC, wotlk and I completed most of the tier 11 raiding on my holy paladin. I quit hardcore raiding because it was too easy and went by too quickly. The only way these are considered difficult is if you have a "tunnel vision" problem and also if you don't know how to move your fingers and actually move your character to where you're supposed to go to. I know the Fire Lands instances are easy because a few of my friends who are not as good as me in raiding have already downed Ragnaros and a few heroic bosses. Oh yes and one last thing. The "epic" just isn't there anymore.


Edit: I was starting to get tired of raiding in the middle of wotlk and thought cata would restore the fun and "epic" of the game. I was wrong to think it would happen I suppose.
Edited by Vareesa on 7/7/2011 11:55 PM PDT
Reply Quote
85 Tauren Warrior
11105
07/07/2011 11:52 PMPosted by Vareesa
I know the Fire Lands instances are easy because a few of my friends who are not as good as me in raiding have already downed Ragnaros and a few heroic bosses.


So Firelands is easy because you heard it was easy.


That's like me saying that, "getting the fire out on 4th and main that burnt down 3 buildings was easy because the hero firefighter said it was easy."

AND, if hundreds of thousands of players were in the same boat, it would be one thing. But the truth is that your friends are in a small minority.
Edited by Gavan on 7/7/2011 11:58 PM PDT
Reply Quote
85 Gnome Warlock
3445
Oh look, even more people complaining about content they haven't even downed and probably wont for at least a month. How unoriginal.

Move along.
Reply Quote
85 Tauren Paladin
1960
07/07/2011 01:09 PMPosted by Daxxarri
Anyhow...was 4.2 designed to be quick like this?


I am endlessly intrigued to find players judging the difficulty of the encounters and how long lived the content is by how pro players, some of the most skilled and focused players in the world, engage the content. It's a little like judging the difficulty of juggling eight chainsaws by what the best jugglers in the world can accomplish. Sure, it might be easy for them, but when was the last time you tried it? (Do not attempt to juggle eight chainsaws. Do not attempt to juggle any chainsaws. Unless you are a juggler. A professional chainsaw juggler. A really, really good professional chainsaw juggler who does not fear chainsaw manglings.)

The content wasn't designed to be 'quick'. It was designed to be epic, engaging, challenging and fun. It can accomplish those goals without being punishing.

It is kind of remarkable how fun and engaging the content can be when we start judging content by what we accomplish and experience ourselves, rather than the posts we read on the forums or the headlines of a fansite.


The chainsaw warning literally had me lol'ing
Reply Quote
85 Tauren Warrior
11105
07/08/2011 12:01 AMPosted by Vareesa
I stopped raiding after the first tier of this expansion because it was too easy.


This is all I needed to read. You have ZERO frame of reference on the current content, and therefore have ZERO ability to effectively criticize it in any way.

I don't either, I just don't like the /faceroll QQ, because it's why so many of us were miserable for 4+ months.
Reply Quote
85 Blood Elf Hunter
6370
07/08/2011 12:03 AMPosted by Gavan
I stopped raiding after the first tier of this expansion because it was too easy.


This is all I needed to read. You have ZERO frame of reference on the current content, and therefore have ZERO ability to effectively criticize it in any way.

I don't either, I just don't like the /faceroll QQ, because it's why so many of us were miserable for 4+ months.


Not sure if you read the whole "I completed most of the tier 11 raiding on my holy paladin."
Reply Quote
85 Tauren Warrior
11105
07/08/2011 12:05 AMPosted by Vareesa
Not sure if you read the whole "I completed most of the tier 11 raiding on my holy paladin."


Have you done Firelands?

You post says you havn't, therefore you have no direct experience to tell if the raid is easy or not.


Besides www.wowprogress.com

Encounters
Beth'tilac (10): 6499 (77.66%)
Lord Rhyolith (10): 4517 (53.98%)
Alysrazor (10): 2488 (29.73%)
Shannox (10): 7407 (88.52%)
Baleroc (10): 3516 (42.02%)
Majordomo (10): 1982 (23.69%)
Ragnaros (10): 938 (11.21%)
H: Beth'tilac (10): 5 (0.06%)
H: Lord Rhyolith (10): 64 (0.76%)
H: Alysrazor (10): 1 (0.01%)
H: Shannox (10): 392 (4.68%)
H: Baleroc (10): 2 (0.02%)
H: Majordomo (10): 0 (0.00%)
H: Ragnaros (10): 0 (0.00%)


Encounters
Beth'tilac (25): 1545 (82.62%)
Lord Rhyolith (25): 1426 (76.26%)
Alysrazor (25): 843 (45.08%)
Shannox (25): 1742 (93.16%)
Baleroc (25): 1066 (57.01%)
Majordomo (25): 614 (32.83%)
Ragnaros (25): 407 (21.76%)
H: Beth'tilac (25): 36 (1.93%)
H: Lord Rhyolith (25): 92 (4.92%)
H: Alysrazor (25): 21 (1.12%)
H: Shannox (25): 477 (25.51%)
H: Baleroc (25): 4 (0.21%)
H: Majordomo (25): 2 (0.11%)
H: Ragnaros (25): 0 (0.00%)


I know that's not totally correct, but even if you DOUBLE those numbers, that's still a fraction of who killed even Magmaw in tier 11 before 4.2. Yes, it was out for 6 months, but that number of about 50-60k on the 10 man side didn't really go up much after the second week in Jan.
Edited by Gavan on 7/8/2011 12:16 AM PDT
Reply Quote
85 Blood Elf Hunter
6370
07/08/2011 12:09 AMPosted by Gavan
Not sure if you read the whole "I completed most of the tier 11 raiding on my holy paladin."


Have you done Firelands?

You post says you havn't, therefore you have no direct experience to tell if the raid is easy or not.


Besides www.wowprogress.com

Encounters
Beth'tilac (10): 6499 (77.66%)
Lord Rhyolith (10): 4517 (53.98%)
Alysrazor (10): 2488 (29.73%)
Shannox (10): 7407 (88.52%)
Baleroc (10): 3516 (42.02%)
Majordomo (10): 1982 (23.69%)
Ragnaros (10): 938 (11.21%)
H: Beth'tilac (10): 5 (0.06%)
H: Lord Rhyolith (10): 64 (0.76%)
H: Alysrazor (10): 1 (0.01%)
H: Shannox (10): 392 (4.68%)
H: Baleroc (10): 2 (0.02%)
H: Majordomo (10): 0 (0.00%)
H: Ragnaros (10): 0 (0.00%)


Encounters
Beth'tilac (25): 1545 (82.62%)
Lord Rhyolith (25): 1426 (76.26%)
Alysrazor (25): 843 (45.08%)
Shannox (25): 1742 (93.16%)
Baleroc (25): 1066 (57.01%)
Majordomo (25): 614 (32.83%)
Ragnaros (25): 407 (21.76%)
H: Beth'tilac (25): 36 (1.93%)
H: Lord Rhyolith (25): 92 (4.92%)
H: Alysrazor (25): 21 (1.12%)
H: Shannox (25): 477 (25.51%)
H: Baleroc (25): 4 (0.21%)
H: Majordomo (25): 2 (0.11%)
H: Ragnaros (25): 0 (0.00%)


I know that's not totally correct, but even if you DOUBLE those numbers, that's still a fraction of who killed even Magmaw in tier 11 before 4.2.


Don't need your statistics when I have friends who I am better than that I happen to know in real life and I have sat in on them actually doing Fire Lands, so don't tell me what I can or can't do thank you very much :)
Reply Quote
85 Tauren Warrior
11105
07/08/2011 12:16 AMPosted by Vareesa
Don't need your statistics when I have friends who I am better than that I happen to know in real life and I have sat in on them actually doing Fire Lands, so don't tell me what I can or can't do thank you very much :)



So let me get this straight. Blizzard, the multi-million dollar company that created this great game and the statistical proof I provided are wrong, but your friends who represent the TOP 1-2% of players in the WORLD are right?

/facedesk.
Reply Quote
85 Blood Elf Hunter
6370
Don't need your statistics when I have friends who I am better than that I happen to know in real life and I have sat in on them actually doing Fire Lands, so don't tell me what I can or can't do thank you very much :)



So let me get this straight. Blizzard, the multi-million dollar company that created this great game and the statistical proof I provided are wrong, but your friends who represent the TOP 1-2% of players in the WORLD are right?

/facedesk.


Nope, but the fact that this game is really going down and fast, due to the fact that all of the original Blizz team left WoW to go work on the new mmo Titan, should tell you a lot. This game does not take skill and a major amount of people who were skilled have without a doubt quit the game and were replaced by a mass majority of new, casual and bad players.

Edit: excuse me, not all the blizz team left for Titan, but a lot did
Edited by Vareesa on 7/8/2011 12:23 AM PDT
Reply Quote
85 Tauren Warrior
11105
07/08/2011 12:23 AMPosted by Vareesa
This game does not take skill and a major amount of people who were skilled have without a doubt quit the game and were replaced by a mass majority of new, casual and bad players.


Source?

I agree with the other part, no matter what my personal opinion on the guy is Tigole is a darn good developer and he is missed. Molten Front is fun though.

The issue at hand is though, due to the mechanical limitations of the game, if you have the base skill set, everything comes down to learning curve and reaction time. It took me about an hour to finish the last installment of Castlevania that launched. I hard core console games on brutal/nightmare/evil/god what-have-you, but I play this one to socialize and have fun. The mechanical consistancies in WoW just have more limitations, one key component of which is your play group. That right there is something that people seem to forget when they claim all-knowing power over the descriptor of a game's difficulty. If you play with the super world's best, it's easy. If you play with family and friends that you've known for 2 decades, if varies.
Reply Quote
85 Blood Elf Hunter
6370
07/08/2011 12:30 AMPosted by Gavan
This game does not take skill and a major amount of people who were skilled have without a doubt quit the game and were replaced by a mass majority of new, casual and bad players.


Source?

I agree with the other part, no matter what my personal opinion on the guy is Tigole is a darn good developer and he is missed. Molten Front is fun though.

The issue at hand is though, due to the mechanical limitations of the game, if you have the base skill set, everything comes down to learning curve and reaction time. It took me about an hour to finish the last installment of Castlevania that launched. I hard core console games on brutal/nightmare/evil/god what-have-you, but I play this one to socialize and have fun. The mechanical consistancies in WoW just have more limitations, one key component of which is your play group. That right there is something that people seem to forget when they claim all-knowing power over the descriptor of a game's difficulty. If you play with the super world's best, it's easy. If you play with family and friends that you've known for 2 decades, if varies.


Look I will be honest with you. Blizzard has made me become sick and tired of WoW and now I refer to it as "World of Welfare" because that is all it really is now to me. And not just that but it now doesn't feel fun and it feels a lot more like a chore and just like a big 'ol Christmas tree with Santa under it saying: "FREE PURPLES FOR EVERYONE!" The turn that WoW has taken which started in wotlk was not a very good one and I feel that the addiction of playing this game won't last much longer. I don't necessarily hope that WoW crashes because it did something that no one else could ever have dreamed of doing. Its lived its time in my opinion and its near time for me to move on. I really hope that people enjoy it and find it difficult rather than just a "give me! give me!" game the veterans have seen it become. The last thing I will say in this topic is this. When it comes to the social standards in WoW, the Dungeon Finder has definitely ruined the game for that aspect. Its your choice to agree or not.
Reply Quote
85 Gnome Rogue
13910
So how much content have you cleared Mr. Moohots? Because when you can clear it in two weeks then you might have a valid point. But when its only two top tier guilds doing it I really don't think Blizzard has made any design flaws. Content will always be downed quickly by guilds of that caliber. I'm personally enjoying it and find challenges in the content, which is why I play.
Reply Quote
90 Blood Elf Paladin
7245
Realistically it's not that this content (Firelands) is too easy - the raids have always been easily accomplished by hardcore/skilled/focused players. The fact remains however, that this is an entire raiding tier - AN ENTIRE TIER - of just 7 bosses. No other dungeons - not even five mans. Cataclysm was supposed to be 'more content faster'... this hardly seems like more content. Hell - the most half assed content to date, ToC, at least came with a five man.

I haven't done the Fireland's content, but even if I never touched the raid - at all - I would still be disappointed in the lack of what was added to the game. One 7-boss raid.

I'll admit, Heroic Modes were an OK concept for adding more, and more challenging, content for the more dedicated raider.. but it seems like it's just become an excuse for rehashing content all at once.. instead of waiting until the next expansion to bring it back randomly.

Edit: and ZG/ZA don't count. They were out a good while before Firelands hit, old news.
Edited by Ridoeth on 7/8/2011 12:47 AM PDT
Reply Quote
85 Tauren Warrior
11105
07/08/2011 12:46 AMPosted by Ridoeth
Edit: and ZG/ZA don't count. They were out a good while before Firelands hit, old news.


Meh, they're still fun, so is the Molten Front area.

I have a theory on ZG/ZA though, but I don't want to derail this thread with it. I think they were an experiment of sorts. It would explain why one was simply re-tuned for level and group size and the other was a re-loaded exsisting instance. I think it's to see if they can make reasonably difficult content in the 5 man format, have an epic feel of a raid, and be functional in the RDF. They succeeded in that aspect. Opinions on the subject will of course differ, but those two dungeons came into exsistance very quickly for what they are.

In the future I'm expecting to see more of the Molten Front type areas and more 5 man tiers like ZG/ZA. If raiding was truely still the popular thing to do in WoW, and as easy as many in this thread have claimed, there would be 50k 10 man guilds with Beth/Shan kills by now.
Reply Quote

Please report any Code of Conduct violations, including:

Threats of violence. We take these seriously and will alert the proper authorities.

Posts containing personal information about other players. This includes physical addresses, e-mail addresses, phone numbers, and inappropriate photos and/or videos.

Harassing or discriminatory language. This will not be tolerated.

Forums Code of Conduct

Report Post # written by

Reason
Explain (256 characters max)

Reported!

[Close]