4.2 almost cleared in 2weeks? Expected?

90 Human Paladin
9475
07/08/2011 07:36 AMPosted by Angelatore
You honestly believe that someone had to raid Wrath to call it easy? Are you really going with that stance?


I believe you actually have to try something out before you're qualified to make any kind of judgement, yes. Even Roger Ebert has to sit through at least some portion of awful movies before he can justifiably write any kind of review.

I'll repeat: In order to judge something, you have to have tried it first-hand.

I can do plenty of investigation on MMO champion, watch livestreams, etc. to get a feel for whether an instance is easy and facerollable or truly challening like Sunwell was. Based on my own raiding experiences and what I expect out of content I can judge whether it's worth my time to continue to raid.


That qualifies whether it's worth your own time. You still can't make any real assessment of how hard it is unless you try it, as any evidence you have is hear-say. Now you can point out said reviews to others, you can show me how hard a time Paragon has on a boss, and tell me what they said, but you yourself can't make any judgement. All in all, if I want to know what others say, I'll let them talk for themselves.

Based on what I am used to and what I expect, I can wholeheartedly argue and be confident that the current content isn't even a sliver of what it used to be and is in no way, shape, or form worth my time.


Without first-hand knowledge of the fights, your opinion is meaningless, sorry. Any of the people in this forum who've actually done the fights, those people's opinion is actually worth weight.

If you are happy with the accessible content and what Blizzard is doing that is perfectly fine and I fully support you opinion. But what you expect out of the game is different than what I expect. I, and many others, were not happy and have stepped away from raiding because it's made for more casual players with accessibility as the goal of creating instances. That's not fore me.


That's fine if you don't expect raiding to fulfill you. If you've done your homework and have decided it's not worth your time, that's reasonable.

However, you still can't make an accurate judgement on how hard content is without first-hand experience, at best you can make an educated guess on whether it's worth your own time.

07/08/2011 07:36 AMPosted by Angelatore
Semantics.
I agree it's semantics to call something recycled purely over the boss's name.
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17 Tauren Paladin
30
Pretty sure they learned in sunwell that the best guilds in the world will always steamroll whatever is put in front of them, anything they don't would be ridiculously broken for the general populace.
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1 Human Rogue
0
The stupid thing about this being cleared in 2 weeks is that these guilds are getting heroic tokens for armor they cant even buy yet because they don't have enough valor points to buy the non heroic versions of the armor
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90 Human Paladin
9475
07/08/2011 07:54 AMPosted by Angelatore
Pretty sure they learned in sunwell that the best guilds in the world will always steamroll whatever is put in front of them, anything they don't would be ridiculously broken for the general populace.


Sunwell was not steamrolled. It was released on April 8 and cleared on May 24. If you think M'uru and Kil'jaeden were steamrolled then you did not follow progression at all.


I think you missed his point. Blizzard came to the conclusion that it's better to make content accessibel for thousands instead of a few hundred. I personally would say that's good game design.
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07/07/2011 01:09 PMPosted by Daxxarri
Anyhow...was 4.2 designed to be quick like this?


I am endlessly intrigued to find players judging the difficulty of the encounters and how long lived the content is by how pro players, some of the most skilled and focused players in the world, engage the content. It's a little like judging the difficulty of juggling eight chainsaws by what the best jugglers in the world can accomplish. Sure, it might be easy for them, but when was the last time you tried it? (Do not attempt to juggle eight chainsaws. Do not attempt to juggle any chainsaws. Unless you are a juggler. A professional chainsaw juggler. A really, really good professional chainsaw juggler who does not fear chainsaw manglings.)

The content wasn't designed to be 'quick'. It was designed to be epic, engaging, challenging and fun. It can accomplish those goals without being punishing.

It is kind of remarkable how fun and engaging the content can be when we start judging content by what we accomplish and experience ourselves, rather than the posts we read on the forums or the headlines of a fansite.


I think one thing the Blizz community team needs to understand is that a lot of players were really unhappy with T11. T11 was great for hardcore and semi serious raiding guilds. More laid back raiding guilds have dropped like flies. You need to understand that players are feeling really burned.

Anyway, I'm giving T12 a fair shake!
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90 Human Paladin
9475
07/08/2011 07:58 AMPosted by Angelatore
However, you still can't make an accurate judgement on how hard content is without first-hand experience, at best you can make an educated guess on whether it's worth your own time.


Which is exactly what I did and continue to do.


Uh-uh.


Please don't try to juxtapose juggling eight chainsaws (extraordinarily difficult) with the PvE aspect of World of Warcraft as it currently is (terribly easy, accessible, and unappealing).


That would be an objective judgement, not a subjective one.

I understand your point but disagree. End-game content in a MMORGP should not be what it is like in WoW.


The game can be whatever the designers think is good game design, and not get hung up over the semantics of what MMORPG means. Having a game with millions of subscribers and designing content for the entertainment of but a handful seems extremely bad game design, and the label of MMO can't justify that.
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62 Night Elf Hunter
940
The op must be new, do you honestly think the top raid guilds in the world wouldnt race to clear and get the recognition of being first?

This is nothing new in any game, it has always been like this, joe blow over there in guild anonymous wont be seeing the end of the raid for a while. God you people are trying to compare your petty raiding to the worlds top progression guilds, call me when joe blows anonymous guild clears it in a week.

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90 Human Death Knight
12455
07/08/2011 07:54 AMPosted by Angelatore
Pretty sure they learned in sunwell that the best guilds in the world will always steamroll whatever is put in front of them, anything they don't would be ridiculously broken for the general populace.


Sunwell was not steamrolled. It was released on April 8 and cleared on May 24. If you think M'uru and Kil'jaeden were steamrolled then you did not follow progression at all.

Bad trolling. The only reason Sunwell lasted that "long" was because of gating.

Kil'Jaeden was not available until May 20th and he died four days later, during the very first week he was released. Four days.

Mu'ru was not available until April 29th. He also died four days later, during the very first week he was released. Also four days.

It happens every time, and everyone always acts like it's something new.
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100 Troll Druid
17630
If Blizzard wanted firelands to last longer they would have had normal modes drop 391 loot and tuned heroic mode to 391 gear. Heroics were tuned to 378 (barely higher than the 372 everyone was sitting at) so it was obviously going to be clearable in the first week.

I personally got tired of super-hardcore raiding years ago when it was gradually turning into a 12hr/day affair so I won't really care unless I've cleared 7/7 Heroic and have to wait months for the next tier again. If I were still into the progression race then I personally would have preferred heroics tuned to 391 so they wouldn't be cleared the first week and guilds could distinguish themselves based on how few weeks of upgrades it took them to beat the content.

If the people currently doing the progression race like the current setup then I guess it was successful, if not then maybe it wasn't. I have no doubt that whichever guild clears everything first will state their opinion then, and guilds afterwards might state theirs as well. I also have no doubt their opinions will differ, some will love it and say all the encounters were brilliant and original and others will say they were tired re-hashes that weren't tuned properly and the tier overall was a complete failure.
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85 Human Mage
7180
07/08/2011 06:29 AMPosted by Strauss
Guilds spend all their time on the PTR so they breeze through Live.


This is a good point.
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85 Human Mage
7180
07/08/2011 08:05 AMPosted by Waste
It happens every time, and everyone always acts like it's something new.


How long after Arthas was available did he get killed?
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85 Dwarf Paladin
6515
Two world class guilds = general raid population.

It'll take at least 7 weeks for the top progression guilds (world class excluded) to get 7/7 heroic and even then it wont be on farm. It'll take 3-4 months for most guilds to get what takes paragon a week.

in 25 man heroic baleroc the minimum dps requirement is 32k PER DPS. Can you do 32k dps? lol can the other 18-20 players?
Edited by Linketh on 7/8/2011 8:19 AM PDT
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85 Dwarf Priest
2485
Sunwell was not steamrolled. It was released on April 8 and cleared on May 24. If you think M'uru and Kil'jaeden were steamrolled then you did not follow progression at all.


It was gated, too, if I am not mistaken.

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85 Worgen Druid
1435
07/08/2011 08:05 AMPosted by Waste
It happens every time, and everyone always acts like it's something new.


Thank you. Thank you for saving me the time to find citations about the timeline of progression. And for being a voice of reason.

I understand your point but disagree. End-game content in a MMORGP should not be what it is like in WoW.


You mean it should not be accessible by most people who don't have 20 hours a week to spend on a game? Sorry, if you're looking for raiding like that, you're going to have to go back in time. 3 years ago, it was the MMO standard (set by WoW). Now, it isn't.

Find me an MMO that does serious, difficult, painful, progression raiding nowadays, and let me know. Seriously, I'm actually curious if there are any that do anymore. Most raids in most other games are pretty much tank and spank...

07/08/2011 08:14 AMPosted by Cindyanne
How long after Arthas was available did he get killed?


According to Wowpedia, he was killed by Blood Legion the day he was released, Feb 3rd.
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85 Human Mage
7180
07/08/2011 08:23 AMPosted by Brototype
According to Wowpedia, he was killed by Blood Legion the day he was released, Feb 3rd.


He took a bit longer on my server. ;)
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90 Human Paladin
10245
any content can be "Raced" thu...you get your best geared ppl that are hard core and you go into the instance... and becides RL breaks they dont come out untill it is cleared. Bliz can make content that is so insanely hard Yet I know there are guilds and ppl out there that will clear it in less then 1 day! its a matter of propective how you enjoy the content. if you enjoy clearing stuff fast then ok go for it..But if u enjoy the story the challange then thats what you will find in any patch! just my 2 cents for whats its worth....
BRENDA
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