4.2 almost cleared in 2weeks? Expected?

85 Worgen Druid
1435
He took a bit longer on my server. ;)


Oh no doubt. The point is that this has always been the case. The best guilds in the world have always and will continue to clear the content very quickly. But unless you're in one of those best guilds, why does it matter?

It's easy to look back at something and say "Someone else did it quickly, so it must be easy". But you haven't done it. So why does it matter so much to you how quickly Paragon (who was testing it during the closed beta, and was able to do it enough times to try out all sorts of class combinations, including a raid of 10 paladins) clears it?
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90 Undead Mage
10360
Seriously... don't let a group of no-lifers make you upset at Blizzard. The content is fine.
Edited by Naphula on 7/8/2011 9:02 AM PDT
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Personally, I don't judge the content based on what "top" groups are doing. I was in a "top" raiding guild for a while, had to watch guild made videos, study content, LITTERALLY take tests on content before I could participate in certain raids, my spec and gems and enchants were not mine to decide on, I performed as ordered, was kept under a microscope with graphs and charts kept on everything I did down to emotes during raids, idle times and AFKs were kept track of and I was penalized for them. If I put a toe wrong I could loose all privilages in the guild including the ability to join 5-mans or even help others leveling alts (lest I touch them with my inferiority). The toon I had in that guild I grew to hate to the point I deleted it when I finally left the guild. I'll never even play that class again, I still am nauseated even looking at it. I wish I could get those days, weeks, countless hours back. "Neat" as it was to be in a prestigious "Top" raiding guild, for me, it was NOT worth it.

Knowing all that, what top players do anymore is only remotely interesting to me, I know what they go through, I'd rather ENJOY the game instead of work that hard on it thanks. They can juggle their high revving chainsaws with sharpened poisoned chains running on NOX, I am completely happy juggling my de-chained, not running, plastic replica chainsaws purchased at Toys 'R' Us while engaging in Nerf gun wars with guildies and taking forays down the barbie isle to anihilate the Alliance that hang out there. I'll see the content when we get there, and stand before the first set of trash mobs laughing with guildies as I pluck nerf darts from my hair and try to come up with a way to creatively cause the death of the buddy who last caused me to die in the last raid we went into with his mass pull then vanish routine, oh yeah, payback will come my friend, I may wipe the raid, but we'll all laugh our butts off, repair, and wonder who's gonna kill who next while we move through the content. It's all about the FUN.
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07/07/2011 12:21 PMPosted by Koica
I'm speaking on behalf of a hardcore raider, not some " casual " or whatever you wanna call it normal mode guild


And who among hardcore raiders asked you to speak on their behalf?


Id personally rather hear from the "casual" or whatever you wanna call it normal mode guild people. They are the ones that matter ultimately.

The top percent self proclaimed hard core raiders are insignificant much like the bottom percent 5hour a weeker.

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90 Troll Shaman
13795
Any real PvE'er from the good ol' days will tell you that it's not about the mechanics of a boss, it's about the boss himself (or herself).


I..... what?

The boss IS the mechanics. Give Ragnaros the model of Al'akir and he's still Ragnaros. If he has different mechanics it's a different fight.

And yes, I killed the original Ragnaros during classic. No one appointed you to speak for people from the "good old days", so I would suggest you stop doing so.
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85 Gnome Priest
3705
Remember that the top guilds cleared normal in the PTR. They know the mechanics, which did not change much and they are really overgeared with T11 Heroic gear. Lets see how they do with T12 Heroic before we start complaining.

If you do not believe me go to tankspot.com and look at the PTR and Weekly Marmont videos. Maybe you will believe Lore.





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07/07/2011 10:51 AMPosted by Moohots
Anyhow...atleast T11 Heroics stood a chance, we didin't see HM Nef/Ala'kirs for atleast 3+weeks. Given that the xpac launched and what not, still the time difference is there.


OP post ^^

I'm sorry but you're not really making any sense...you just stated outright that Rag and Majordomo have NOT been killed on HM yet, and it's been about 2 and a half weeks (indicating they'll be down around 3 weeks mark) And you claim that t11 HM's were better because they made it 3 weeks or a little longer? THEY'VE BOTH NEARLY MADE IT THE SAME AMOUNT OF TIME.

You're just contradicting yourself.

I'm sick and tired of people posting on alts, because they THEMSELVES have done NONE of the content, YET, they @@##ing complain about how THE BEST PLAYERS IN THE ENTIRE WORLD are downing the HM content fast. It's not like they're experiencing this content for the first time on the live realms. Some of these guilds were doing this on the PTR for an EXTENDED amount of time. In addition to that! two 25 man raid groups consist of what? .00000000001% of the playerbase? You need chillax and go do the content yourself.

Just because others have cleared the content, DOES NOT, NOR WILL IT EVER, mean you have cleared it.
Edited by Lilhealz on 7/8/2011 9:54 AM PDT
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85 Draenei Priest
1980
Blizzard, why don't you just man up and make an impossible boss that will kill all raids :D.

Teach the hardcore raiders a lesson lol.

Now that is epic.
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90 Human Paladin
9475
Blizzard, why don't you just man up and make an impossible boss that will kill all raids :D.

Teach the hardcore raiders a lesson lol.

Now that is epic.


You mean like that did with C'thun, where initially he was impossible? I did find it funny that as soon as he was fixed, he was killed within hours.
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85 Troll Hunter
3940
It's a little like judging the difficulty of juggling eight chainsaws by what the best jugglers in the world can accomplish. Sure, it might be easy for them, but when was the last time you tried it?


I tried it - didn't work out so well http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=unEFw12jBf0
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85 Blood Elf Paladin
3510
This is to be expected. The alternative is gating, not having raid bosses on the PTR, or designing bosses purely for best of the best raiders.

I don't think anyone liked raids being gated by attunement or whatever. Sure, it took a lot longer for bosses to be downed, but it was artificial. It wasn't taking long simply because the boss was hard, it was taking long because raiders had to jump through hoops to get to the boss. In terms of total time spend on a particular boss, it was probably about even with today.

Not having bosses on the PTR is an option, although it increases the possibility that a boss will be bugged. No one wants to log into a boss that is impossible to defeat. Conversely, no one wants to find out that there's a bug that let's the boss die super easily, negating the challenge of the content.

Blizzard could of course design bosses so punishingly hard that only the very top most guilds would be capable of attempting it, let alone completing it. But this is stupid. Top end raiding guilds are the exception, not the rule. Designing content purely for the top 1% that will still probably burn through it in a month or less is insanity. Maybe one day when procedural generation has really taken off that kind of diversified difficulty will be possible, but today it would be a tremendous waste of resources.

We are talking about a game that has been around for years. A game where you can now get detailed breakdowns on everything. A game with a subscriber base in the millions. The idea that raid content should last months is a legacy of games like Everquest.
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90 Night Elf Druid
0
I'll never understand why people have a need to compare themselves to other people or determine that someone else's accomplishments are their own.

I mean I play on Illidan-US. I have Blood Legion on my server along with a very strong grouping of guilds to contend with. I don't see an issue so far with content being cleared fast. I have one boss down on heroic and working on the last touches for a 2nd.

My guild isn't going to do sleep/raid cycles to ensure we have constant up time in FL so that we can the bosses faster. We are raiding at our own pace, hell we're not even putting in extra hours on bosses like most guilds do during early progression. We will clear content when we clear it. Maybe we'll have deemed it easier than expected when we're done or maybe we'll be quite happy and realize that its not a push over and it will take us some time. That's life and that's raiding.

You guys need to learn to play the game at your own pace and enjoy what you do. Some other guild killing a boss should have no impact on your opinion of a fight or raid or affect YOUR ability to enjoy the game.


Very well said.
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90 Night Elf Hunter
8175
07/07/2011 01:09 PMPosted by Daxxarri
Anyhow...was 4.2 designed to be quick like this?


I am endlessly intrigued to find players judging the difficulty of the encounters and how long lived the content is by how pro players, some of the most skilled and focused players in the world, engage the content. It's a little like judging the difficulty of juggling eight chainsaws by what the best jugglers in the world can accomplish. Sure, it might be easy for them, but when was the last time you tried it? (Do not attempt to juggle eight chainsaws. Do not attempt to juggle any chainsaws. Unless you are a juggler. A professional chainsaw juggler. A really, really good professional chainsaw juggler who does not fear chainsaw manglings.)

The content wasn't designed to be 'quick'. It was designed to be epic, engaging, challenging and fun. It can accomplish those goals without being punishing.

It is kind of remarkable how fun and engaging the content can be when we start judging content by what we accomplish and experience ourselves, rather than the posts we read on the forums or the headlines of a fansite.


Very well said.

Players did exactly the kind of thing you warned against RELENTLESSLY in Wrath. The forums were filled with topics about how Ulduar was easy, ICC was easy, etc. But how many people do you see with Mimiron's head? How many people defeated Algalon?? I'm sure a simple parse of achievements would reveal that. How many people didn't down LK until after the massive buffs got to around 30%?? I'm sure Blizzard has internal data that could answer such questions.
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90 Night Elf Hunter
7990
Why is it when one or two guilds in the WORLD beat a Raid, suddenly EVERYONE claims that the Raid is now beaten and on farm status for everyone?




YOU haven't beaten Firelands Heroic.


Therefore, YOU haven't accomplished ANYTHING.
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68 Undead Priest
680
LOL

Cataclysm is too hard....

Cataclysm is too easy....


Make up your minds
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90 Human Paladin
9475
LOL

Cataclysm is too hard....

Cataclysm is too easy....


Make up your minds


You can't please everyone, you really can't. I think the developers are starting to learn which people are the whiners and have all but given up on making them happy, since it might be an impossible task in the first place.
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90 Draenei Death Knight
5975
My raid team has not one heroic tier 11 boss kill (We never attempted heroics), which means we went into Firelands with mostly 359 epics, a few odd 346 blues (Head, Shoulders, Bracers etc, that are tougher to get) and the new Elemental Bonds questing cape...

Our first run was a trash run. This week we got Shannox to 3% before our 3 hours raid night came to an end.

Honestly with only 7 bosses for how many ever months, I'm glad I'm not in the Paragon guild. I want to have fun with this for a bit. I enjoy raiding.
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90 Draenei Death Knight
5975
07/07/2011 01:51 PMPosted by Seebach
It is kind of remarkable how fun and engaging the content can be when we start judging content by what we accomplish and experience ourselves, rather than the posts we read on the forums or the headlines of a fansite.


Don't tempt people to tell you just how "fun" and "engaging" the content can be when they judge it.

Because I can guarantee 80% of the casuals perusing the forums will be up in arms going "It's too hard".

Also, what do you do for those "Best" and "Focused" raiders who breezed through the content till now. I imagine this contnet will appease them till about the 2-3rd Tarecgosa's Wrath, but after that, what's to stop them from unsubbing till your next content patch.


This is why content can't be balanced for this kind of raider. They would still finish soon and unsub anyway.

Most likely a raider like me is Blizzard's target audience. A raider who raids 5-7 hours a week, finshed tier 11 normal 2 weeks before the tier 12 patch...

And has not let my rolling sub expire in 4 and a half years...

P.S. I LOVED tier 11... I hope tier 13 is designed in a similar fashion. (Multiple raids, more encounters, fun and challenging end bosses).
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