4.2 almost cleared in 2weeks? Expected?

95 Draenei Death Knight
6060
07/07/2011 01:51 PMPosted by Seebach
It is kind of remarkable how fun and engaging the content can be when we start judging content by what we accomplish and experience ourselves, rather than the posts we read on the forums or the headlines of a fansite.


Don't tempt people to tell you just how "fun" and "engaging" the content can be when they judge it.

Because I can guarantee 80% of the casuals perusing the forums will be up in arms going "It's too hard".

Also, what do you do for those "Best" and "Focused" raiders who breezed through the content till now. I imagine this contnet will appease them till about the 2-3rd Tarecgosa's Wrath, but after that, what's to stop them from unsubbing till your next content patch.


This is why content can't be balanced for this kind of raider. They would still finish soon and unsub anyway.

Most likely a raider like me is Blizzard's target audience. A raider who raids 5-7 hours a week, finshed tier 11 normal 2 weeks before the tier 12 patch...

And has not let my rolling sub expire in 4 and a half years...

P.S. I LOVED tier 11... I hope tier 13 is designed in a similar fashion. (Multiple raids, more encounters, fun and challenging end bosses).
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95 Draenei Death Knight
6060
07/07/2011 02:16 PMPosted by Cantstandzya
Firelands is ToC 2.0. Most bosses are pretty simple except Heroic Rag that will most likely be a giant cockblock that will make most raider bash their head into a wall trying to kill him, like Heroic Anub was, while the rest of the instance was fairly simple.


And ToC is universally derided as the worst tier or raiding in WoW's history by top raiders.


Not just top raiders, lol...
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90 Tauren Druid
915
07/08/2011 07:00 AMPosted by Angelatore
It was designed to be epic, engaging, challenging and fun.


And it was, when it was called Molten Core.


I think this person - and a lot of others - are confusing novelty with quality.

Compared to what's come since, Molten Core is an utterly crap instance. It was ahead of its time compared to what else was around, but compared to the fights in bc/wotlk/cata? Simplistic garbage.

However the game was still fresh to most players at that point, you were seeing a style of content that was new to you, and you didn't have everything pre-planned out by hundreds of third party sites explaining the "right way" to do prettymuch anything (from herbing classes + flightpaths to gearing & raiding top content).

I've been having fun leveling in Rift in my spare time. It's completely fresh to me, I have no idea what the hell is going on half the time, and so there's plenty of novelty enjoyment in a decent quality game.

But I keep playing and raiding in wow because - when you ignore the novelty element - I regard wow as the superior game, and a game which has consistently (even if not smoothly) improved in quality over the long-haul. Plus I've got dozens of friends playing wow ;)
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85 Human Death Knight
4685
07/07/2011 01:09 PMPosted by Daxxarri
I am endlessly intrigued to find players judging the difficulty of the encounters and how long lived the content is by how pro players, some of the most skilled and focused players in the world, engage the content.


Agreed. One point you might want to remember folks is that heroic progression guilds over gear the normal mode T12 content so yes they are going to smash through it quickly so they can move on to heroic modes which is their focus anyway. Normal mode guilds will spend significantly more time on normal T12.
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85 Blood Elf Priest
5880
Molten Core was epic. They had engaging mechanics, like mashing your decurse key over and over until the dps killed the boss.
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97 Orc Death Knight
6780
The fights are fun, especially Rag. Haven't downed him yet but seen all phases. That's what people should care about. The enjoyability of the content, not the length. If you are angry that top guilds in the world are clearing the content quickly then either join one of those guilds or turn your own guild into a hardcore raiding guild that raids for 10 hours a day and for months on the PTR.
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90 Human Mage
13960
07/07/2011 01:09 PMPosted by Daxxarri
Anyhow...was 4.2 designed to be quick like this?


I am endlessly intrigued to find players judging the difficulty of the encounters and how long lived the content is by how pro players, some of the most skilled and focused players in the world, engage the content. It's a little like judging the difficulty of juggling eight chainsaws by what the best jugglers in the world can accomplish. Sure, it might be easy for them, but when was the last time you tried it? (Do not attempt to juggle eight chainsaws. Do not attempt to juggle any chainsaws. Unless you are a juggler. A professional chainsaw juggler. A really, really good professional chainsaw juggler who does not fear chainsaw manglings.)

The content wasn't designed to be 'quick'. It was designed to be epic, engaging, challenging and fun. It can accomplish those goals without being punishing.

It is kind of remarkable how fun and engaging the content can be when we start judging content by what we accomplish and experience ourselves, rather than the posts we read on the forums or the headlines of a fansite.


I usually find blue posts annoying..but this is perfect.
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95 Draenei Death Knight
6060
07/07/2011 06:53 PMPosted by Fairadey
One of my biggest complaints about Firelands actually is the art. I know it's "fire"lands and everything, but does everything really have to be the same colors and fire related? Granted I've only seen up to Baleroc now so I don't know if it gets any better visual wise?


I would have to agree. Depending on what is being burned, fires can be various colors. Everything is red, orange and brown, which gets a bit dull after a while. They could have included blues, greens, whites, possibly purples and other colors without issue. This is a world of magic after all.


Ulduar had several different and entirely unique environments, from the outdoor Storm Peaks, to the icy Hordir room, to Freya's nature setting, to Mimiron's tech room... This is what makes an amazing raid, combined with great, challenging and fun boss mechanics.

ICC had many good ideas, but could have used more of this uniqueness between it's wings, and Tier 11 Raids were amazingly fun. Al'akir and Nefarian are two of my favorite fights, but BoT could have used a little more creativeness in the design to add a little more flavor.
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95 Draenei Death Knight
6060
07/08/2011 11:16 AMPosted by Mescyn
Molten Core was epic. They had engaging mechanics, like mashing your decurse key over and over until the dps killed the boss.


The thing I recall is many people calling this place Molten Bore... I personally find Naxx an amazingly designed raid instance, from the layout to the fun boss fights and interesting mechanics. Rose colored glasses I guess.
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90 Tauren Druid
9105
Dear OP:

I might have had the slightest respect for your opinion if you'd posted on your main.

Dear Blizz:

Screw hardcore raiders. They don't pay your bills. Their QQ ruined Cataclysm for the rest of us (ie: the vast majority of us) and they continue to QQ. They will never be satisfied. Ergo, stop worrying about them and what they care about, and start worrying and caring about the subscribers who butter your bread.
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85 Blood Elf Priest
5880

Screw hardcore raiders. They don't pay your bills. Their QQ ruined Cataclysm for the rest of us (ie: the vast majority of us) and they continue to QQ.


I don't think I ever saw a well progressed player complain about wrath's lack of difficulty in wrath. Not even once. The people complaining were all casuals (or at the very least, had little/no hm progression). I believe paragon said (at the time) that wrath had some of the most challenging encounters done by blizzard (mostly referring to h lk).

So no, hardcore raider qq did not 'ruin' cataclysm for you.
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95 Draenei Death Knight
6060

Screw hardcore raiders. They don't pay your bills. Their QQ ruined Cataclysm for the rest of us (ie: the vast majority of us) and they continue to QQ.


I don't think I ever saw a well progressed player complain about wrath's lack of difficulty in wrath. Not even once. The people complaining were all casuals (or at the very least, had little/no hm progression). I believe paragon said (at the time) that wrath had some of the most challenging encounters done by blizzard (mostly referring to h lk).

So no, hardcore raider qq did not 'ruin' cataclysm for you.


They (Paragon) also said the last tier (11) was one of the most grueling tiers to date... I posted their quote in a thread a while back, not sure where that is now though.

Tier 11 was a blast. I loved Nef and Al'akir. Some very worthy post LK end bosses. Not sure what to make of this tier yet. Many will be distracted due to summer, and hopefully their 13 will follow a similar design to tier 11, which many felt was quite good.
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85 Night Elf Warrior
8225
07/07/2011 01:09 PMPosted by Daxxarri
The content wasn't designed to be 'quick'. It was designed to be epic, engaging, challenging and fun.


It's not any of those things if top guilds are already 6/7 heroic, maybe 7/7 heroic after you read this, Blizzard, make 3 tiers of content, please, easy, normal, and REALLY HARD for the HARDCORE players that have already breezed through your content.
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90 Human Priest
11430
07/07/2011 01:09 PMPosted by Daxxarri
Anyhow...was 4.2 designed to be quick like this?


I am endlessly intrigued to find players judging the difficulty of the encounters and how long lived the content is by how pro players, some of the most skilled and focused players in the world, engage the content. It's a little like judging the difficulty of juggling eight chainsaws by what the best jugglers in the world can accomplish. Sure, it might be easy for them, but when was the last time you tried it? (Do not attempt to juggle eight chainsaws. Do not attempt to juggle any chainsaws. Unless you are a juggler. A professional chainsaw juggler. A really, really good professional chainsaw juggler who does not fear chainsaw manglings.)

The content wasn't designed to be 'quick'. It was designed to be epic, engaging, challenging and fun. It can accomplish those goals without being punishing.

It is kind of remarkable how fun and engaging the content can be when we start judging content by what we accomplish and experience ourselves, rather than the posts we read on the forums or the headlines of a fansite.


Jeebus! Sick burn by blue. Daxx - you are definately one of my favorite blue posters ever!
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85 Human Mage
7180
07/07/2011 02:01 PMPosted by Cantstandzya
If it were just the top 10 or even 50 guilds progressing so fast, I don't think anyone would be worried.


Who's worried, really? And about what?

I really don't understand why people get so upset about this. I'm trying to find an analogy in real life and I can't do that either.

It's like...

No, it's like...

Hmm

Eh, I give up. Sorry, but I can't be overly concerned about how easy something is when what amounts to professionals are doing it. I'm sure heart surgery (or juggling chainsaws lol) is easy for some folks, too... heck, my father in law's triple bypass took only six hours you guys... damn if it would have been me doing that surgery, it would have taken WEEKS.

Thank goodness there are some people out there good at what they do, right? Stop comparing everyone to them. They're not the norm, nor should they be the standard by which everyone is judged.

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97 Orc Death Knight
6780
07/08/2011 11:47 AMPosted by Michaels
The content wasn't designed to be 'quick'. It was designed to be epic, engaging, challenging and fun.


It's not any of those things if top guilds are already 6/7 heroic, maybe 7/7 heroic after you read this, Blizzard, make 3 tiers of content, please, easy, normal, and REALLY HARD for the HARDCORE players that have already breezed through your content.


Yeah so then people could complain about how hard the "really hard" mode is. Why do you care what the top guilds have done? YOU are not 6/7 HM. MOST people are not 6/7 HM. Why does anybody care about anyone's progression besides their own?
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100 Troll Shaman
16085
07/08/2011 09:38 AMPosted by Aelnistae
If someone wants to talk about the casual raider go for it because it will not hurt my feelings. I will probably agree with them. If I do not agree with them I will say so but I will not be anal and tell them to stop talking for me. Why? Because they have that right on these forums.


People have the right to speak for you on the forums? Really?

Okay, I think you agree with me. Conversation over. Thanks.
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85 Goblin Death Knight
0
You cannot say that this expansion is a fail or too fast etc, when you most likely haven't even touched Firelands. Don't say something is quick until you do it, not how fast other people do it.

07/08/2011 11:47 AMPosted by Michaels
The content wasn't designed to be 'quick'. It was designed to be epic, engaging, challenging and fun.


It's not any of those things if top guilds are already 6/7 heroic, maybe 7/7 heroic after you read this, Blizzard, make 3 tiers of content, please, easy, normal, and REALLY HARD for the HARDCORE players that have already breezed through your content.


Have you though? No. Who cares what other people do, you haven't even finished BOT and your saying this is too fast? Buahaha.
Edited by Ombysal on 7/8/2011 12:25 PM PDT
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