4.2 almost cleared in 2weeks? Expected?

7 Undead Priest
0
Oh no, people that aren't you are clearing content.

How about you worry about playing the game for yourself rather then how fast other people are doing it.


Sounds fine in theory. Until those people then turn to chat the next week and demand linking of achievements and exp to bring new people into a group. It's either run with epic progression guild or wait for nerf-age it seems. The middle ground is tiny and barely existent. This creates huge disparity and lots of QQ's on the forums.

Edited for nerfidge
Edited by Bendler on 7/8/2011 4:03 PM PDT
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54 Human Priest
7215
07/07/2011 01:09 PMPosted by Daxxarri
Anyhow...was 4.2 designed to be quick like this?


I am endlessly intrigued to find players judging the difficulty of the encounters and how long lived the content is by how pro players, some of the most skilled and focused players in the world, engage the content. It's a little like judging the difficulty of juggling eight chainsaws by what the best jugglers in the world can accomplish. Sure, it might be easy for them, but when was the last time you tried it? (Do not attempt to juggle eight chainsaws. Do not attempt to juggle any chainsaws. Unless you are a juggler. A professional chainsaw juggler. A really, really good professional chainsaw juggler who does not fear chainsaw manglings.)

The content wasn't designed to be 'quick'. It was designed to be epic, engaging, challenging and fun. It can accomplish those goals without being punishing.

It is kind of remarkable how fun and engaging the content can be when we start judging content by what we accomplish and experience ourselves, rather than the posts we read on the forums or the headlines of a fansite.


LOL! this might be the best blue post I've ever read. Alas.. I only have one chainsaw.. so I can't try for this epic acheivement of 8 chainsaws.
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85 Night Elf Rogue
RAR
2835


To the heroic-mode haters, for the love of God, this.


The first time you actually see a difficult boss drop over dead is by far the most enjoyable aspect of raiding. Nothing in the PvE side of this game beats this feeling.

Yes, it is more fun to wipe on Normals multiple times before kill simply because it makes the final first-kill that much more rewarding. Seeing the same boss fall over dead later, but with higher numbers attached to his nameplate, is by no means as much fun.

Heroics are a grind of content that you have already cleared. Normals are progressing through unexplored territory and being rewarded visually in a novel fashion after each successive boss falls.



Perfectly explains why Heroic content is NOT actual content, but just extra fluff for people who want a bit of extra challenge.

This is why I thought Sinestra was a brilliant concept. Something unique to work for and aspire for, that is only accessible if you really work hard and are exceptional at the game. That is something that is needed for everyone; not just top-tier raiders. Even if I only get 7/7 Normal, I want to know that there is something to work for that is UNIQUE, special, content that progresses the story and the content itself that has to be achieved.

H-mode is just fluff; extra. The last boss or two of a raiding tier should take a lot of work to down, or even see if it is a large tier. Otherwise, all there is to work for is content that has already been done; wiping ten times without killing a boss is one thing. Doing it again after killing the boss, but with bigger numbers and an extra phase of ability is just that: "extra."
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90 Blood Elf Paladin
6485
07/08/2011 12:40 PMPosted by Kurnea
With music you can be fully qualified in what you think sounds good, even make statements based on your experience with listening to a range of music.


So, by this statement, because I have raided before I can make opinions on raids through my own observations as they relate to my past experience?

Wow, thank you for clarifying. If I didn't read your post, I'd still think I was entirely wrong.

Also Edit: It seems odd that people are saying this patch is FINE because Casuals won't clear it in a day.. but isn't it half (if not all) the complainers... are casuals? I don't see and 13/13 7/7H people !#!*%ing here.
Edited by Ridoeth on 7/8/2011 5:19 PM PDT
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86 Human Death Knight
6135
Yes i find it interesting that people wanna get through these encounters so quickly. my small group of raid friends have yet to watch a video on how to kill the bosses and are solely reliying on the dungeon guides to figure out how to beat the boss. it seems like a waste to watch a video on how to repeat what someone just did especially when we wont be first or second or third. not that it isnt fun to kill bosses quickly but sometimes it is just fun to figure it out on your own. it will take us much longer then normal to do it however but thats not a problem
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52 Human Warlock
540
so ... have ppl check how many time they wipe in there?

seriously, all you see is they clear everything but you dont see the effort they put into it.

not to mention they have participate on ptr, you should also factor those wipes into the effort they have put into the fight.

and ya, people complain this is too fast are mostly without raiding achi
and ..weird thing is people complain fireland is too hard omg can not be pugged are mostly the type of people that has no achi

so .. which one does people want?

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90 Blood Elf Priest
17975


The bottom line is that the normal mode Firelands bosses are pushovers. They are easy to kill and don't take more than a couple of attempts to learn, with the exception of Rag and Alysrazor.

No one in my guild went on the PTR. Hell, most of us hadn't even watched kill videos. If we didn't have absences during the first week, we would have had Rag down on Sunday, allowing us to work on hardmodes this week.

I'm pretty sure there are tons of guilds who are better than us and did not play on the PTR.


I...kind of figured that was what they were shooting for. It was definitely something people complained enough about prior to the patch, that even normal mode raids weren't exactly accessible to much of the player base. Having easy normal modes while keeping heroic modes difficult means that there's something for everyone.

If the heroic mode bosses are pushovers as well, then I'll worry.
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85 Night Elf Death Knight
2665

Actually over 20 guilds have cleared ragular and heroic modes

They just dont get put on the list because they use questionable tactics.


ok now u got me curious O.O

I wanna know wat these "tactics" are and do they involve PAIN!!
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This game really isn't "hard" if you have a group of highly skilled experienced players working together to accomplish a goal.

but out of what 11 or 12 million players were talking about a very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very small portion they are not the norm they are the anomaly in the stats.

Players who actually have lives, familys, jobs and cannot devote themselves 24/7/365 to a video game will not clear in 2 weeks and the vast majority will never clear at all. That is the shame not that it was cleared in 2 weeks but that still the majority of players will never clear at all.

For those that have cleared the raids grats good job tho.
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85 Worgen Hunter
6790
07/07/2011 01:09 PMPosted by Daxxarri
Anyhow...was 4.2 designed to be quick like this?


I am endlessly intrigued to find players judging the difficulty of the encounters and how long lived the content is by how pro players, some of the most skilled and focused players in the world, engage the content. It's a little like judging the difficulty of juggling eight chainsaws by what the best jugglers in the world can accomplish. Sure, it might be easy for them, but when was the last time you tried it? (Do not attempt to juggle eight chainsaws. Do not attempt to juggle any chainsaws. Unless you are a juggler. A professional chainsaw juggler. A really, really good professional chainsaw juggler who does not fear chainsaw manglings.)

The content wasn't designed to be 'quick'. It was designed to be epic, engaging, challenging and fun. It can accomplish those goals without being punishing.

It is kind of remarkable how fun and engaging the content can be when we start judging content by what we accomplish and experience ourselves, rather than the posts we read on the forums or the headlines of a fansite.
Guilds that took almost 2 months to clear BWD and BOT cleared the new "harder" normal encounters in less then 10 days. Do the math ><
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90 Blood Elf Paladin
10215
While I do laugh at those who judge the content by how fast the top guilds clear it, the OP does have something of a point. The top guilds aren't just clearing the normal modes which should be epic, engaging, challenging and fun without being punishing. But they're clearing the heroic modes as well and those should probably be a bit punishing even for the top guilds in the world.

Only Ragnaros hasn't been downed in Heroic mode and I'd expect that to happen within days. That *is* pretty quick compared to much of the past non-entry level raid content. In Vanilla's Naxx 40, the world first kill of Faerlina was in June but the first kill of KT wasn't until September. In TBC Void Reaver was killed in March but Kael wasn't downed until May. In WotLK where the first Uld bosses went down in April but Algalon didn't go down until June. With only a few exceptions (and several of those exceptions were due to things that gets guilds banned these days) the final boss of new raid content took at least 2 months before it was first downed by anyone. That Heroic Rag is likely to be downed within a few weeks of release and regular Rag has already been downed by over 1600 guilds does seem to indicate it might have been a bit undertuned.

"Uh oh! Ragnaros is back! Last time it took Azeroth's greatest Heroes 3 months to invade his lair and defeat him and this time, he's at home and at full power!!!"
"Meh. Quit being a drama queen. We'll just send Enigma out there. They'll wipe him out in a few weeks. No biggie."

It does kind of take the "epicness" out of it all.
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70 Human Hunter
630
Those two guilds probably spend five to six times as much time into learning strats for fights than the average raider. It makes sense that they would defeat the bosses fast. Plus, they've been fighting on the test server. I'd rather not have raid content tuned to where it takes a top 3 world guild 2 months to clear it. That would make it ungodly difficult for the average raider. I'm fine with them clearing it as fast as they are.
Edited by Dridan on 7/9/2011 9:06 PM PDT
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85 Night Elf Warrior
7985
While I do laugh at those who judge the content by how fast the top guilds clear it, the OP does have something of a point. The top guilds aren't just clearing the normal modes which should be epic, engaging, challenging and fun without being punishing. But they're clearing the heroic modes as well and those should probably be a bit punishing even for the top guilds in the world.

Only Ragnaros hasn't been downed in Heroic mode and I'd expect that to happen within days. That *is* pretty quick compared to much of the past non-entry level raid content. In Vanilla's Naxx 40, the world first kill of Faerlina was in June but the first kill of KT wasn't until September. In TBC Void Reaver was killed in March but Kael wasn't downed until May. In WotLK where the first Uld bosses went down in April but Algalon didn't go down until June. With only a few exceptions (and several of those exceptions were due to things that gets guilds banned these days) the final boss of new raid content took at least 2 months before it was first downed by anyone. That Heroic Rag is likely to be downed within a few weeks of release and regular Rag has already been downed by over 1600 guilds does seem to indicate it might have been a bit undertuned.

"Uh oh! Ragnaros is back! Last time it took Azeroth's greatest Heroes 3 months to invade his lair and defeat him and this time, he's at home and at full power!!!"
"Meh. Quit being a drama queen. We'll just send Enigma out there. They'll wipe him out in a few weeks. No biggie."

It does kind of take the "epicness" out of it all.


Can't really make an comparison when you are using 3 of the hardest raids ever made in this game.

The only one that would be ranked as high as the 3 you mentioned is Sunwell.....and MAYBE Black Temple.

I'm sure Firelands wasn't developed to be anywhere near as difficult as your 3 examples.
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Ok that chainsaw rant seriously made me laugh for about 5 straight mins, ty sir ; )

critics never appreciate good humor = )
Edited by Xalenth on 7/9/2011 10:40 PM PDT
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