Harry Potter, and why its horrible.

85 Blood Elf Paladin
4540
Hola People, let me introduce myself, I'm Djpremier, and an AVID reader. (Thats in all caps for a reason). I've read hundreds of fantasy/sci-fi books, military history, fiction, philosophy, you name it, I've read it. (Aside from romance, that is just straight up boring.)

Now, everyone has heard of Harry Potter. And if you ask anyone about it, anywhere from 7 to 9 out of 10 will say how much they looooooove the books and how much they looooooove the movies. My big problem with it is: The books and movies suck. Lets ignore the movies and focus on the good stuff, the books.

So first off: Generic Plot Line set in our World (Sorta). Theres "The One" who goes around getting ready and having confrontations with "Bad Guy #1". He develops relationships, gets friends, loses friends. Kills Bad Guy #1.

So the plotline is generic as hell, but you know what, not a huge deal. Most books have this plot line, and everyone loves it (though it tends to get old.) The biggest problem, is how bland the books are. There's hardly any background on any of the characters, or on the setting (Hogwarts). There's just the main problem, then it ends. Then the book is done. You could take all the background from everything Rowling describes in the series, and fit it in 3-5 pages.

For instance: Hermoine's parents are dentists. They go to Australia. That is about 90% of the background for one of the three main characters.

Also, character development in the book is awful. I feel like Harry didn't change at all through the entire series. He stayed the same, reacted the same, got a bit more serious about things, a bit less afraid, but that was about it.

Also with characters, Rowling tends to either talk about them, and never ever introduce them, or introduce them with a nice bit, keep them for a chapter, and though they're still alive and still in Hogwarts always around, they aren't mentioned for the rest of the series. (Peeves got like 1 chapter. He was the man.)

There is more I can write about, but I feel like I'm only going to get flamed more :)

Now I'm sure all the Harry Potter fans will bash me, but please just read it through, and read some real good books. Of course this is completely subjective and my opinion, but I'm interested to see if anyone else shares my hatred for Harry Potter.

Good books to read:

Song of Ice and Fire
Wheel of Time
Malazan Book of the Fallen
The Magician's Guild
Warhammer 40k: Horus Heresy
Ender's Game

There are a number more, and I encourage everyone to put away their Harry Potter books (perferably into an active fireplace, but if you dont have one currently, feel free to use the trash can) and try something new!
Reply Quote
85 Human Death Knight
4685
I'm an avid reader. I love Wheel of Time, have read all of the Ender's books, everything Heinlein wrote, loved the Princess of Mars books, Herbert's Dune (the first 2 - everything else was just weird lol) and on and on... and to be honest I enjoyed Harry Potter. Everyone is different, just because you didn't like Harry Potter is no reason to discourage others from reading it and encouraging them to burn those books lol.
Reply Quote
85 Dwarf Shaman
4565
They're childrens books man. Calm down.
Reply Quote
85 Blood Elf Paladin
8375
07/17/2011 08:08 AMPosted by Cyclrin
They're childrens books man. Calm down.


As much as you might think, I don't think a 7 year old would read Deathly Hallows. You see to have a very disturbed view on what a "child" is.


They're children's books only in the sense that they are for the ones that grow up while reading the series. Sticking Deathly Hallows in the hands of a 7-8 year old makes no sense. A 15 year old, though? Of course, because they can handle the later maturity.

No one claims that HP is one of the quintessential cornerstones of human civilization. It's entertainment, and that's what it should be. And I (and others) consider it to have done a smashing job in that regard. So what if the plot is formulaic compared with more "adult" fare? We're not expecting Rowling to be Shakespeare, or even GRRM or RJ. Compared with some of the later books in WoT (I'm looking squarely at you, Crossroads of Twilight), the brevity and directness of HP is a refreshing change. And she was writing it for children. Most children at 10-11 don't have the understanding to sort through complex politics like the webs and interplay between Stark, Lannister, Arryn, Baratheon, Targaryen, Martell, Greyjoy, Bolton, Frey, the Free Cities, Slaver's Bay, the free folk, the Vale's mountain clans, technically neutral organizations like the Kingsguard, the Citadel, the Faith or the Night's Watch, Highgarden, and all the independent mercenary companies, sellswords, hedge knights, lords bannermen of the major houses and even smallfolk that can end up felling kings and realms.

I think the post is less about the actual literary merits and target audience of HP and more concerning the "hype" surrounding the series. The last major fantasy series aimed at children was... what? Chronicles of Narnia? Back in the... '50s? The collective unconscious was ready for another breakout series aimed at children after a long absence, and JKR happened to be in the right place at the right time. And now she's more famous than Obama, and richer than God and the Queen combined.

Taking one point into account, Peeves. You say he's introduced and then forgotten. He's shown as the troublemaker of Hogwarts, and not a true ghost. He's fleshed out that only the professors or the Baron can bully him into submission. He wakes Hogwarts to pin the basilisk on Harry when he's found by one of the victims. Knowing his antagonistic relationship with the faculty, it's an awesome and funny moment when unscrewing a chandelier, McGonagall offers advice that "it unscrews the other way". He gives a military salute to Fred and George when they destroy Umbridge's office and make a triumphant exit from Hogwarts. He chucks water balloons at Death Eaters. He's flat, but that doesn't make him uninteresting. He's supposed to be comic relief, and lives up to that wonderfully.

After all this I can't help but feel this is a troll post. If so, congratulations good sir. I'd tip my top hat to you if I were wearing one. Smashing display of internet prowess.
Reply Quote
85 Blood Elf Paladin
4540
07/17/2011 04:17 AMPosted by Omnideath
I'm an avid reader. I love Wheel of Time, have read all of the Ender's books, everything Heinlein wrote, loved the Princess of Mars books, Herbert's Dune (the first 2 - everything else was just weird lol) and on and on... and to be honest I enjoyed Harry Potter. Everyone is different, just because you didn't like Harry Potter is no reason to discourage others from reading it and encouraging them to burn those books lol.


The burning of the books was complete humor, which is hard to convey through a forum haha, though I just hate hearing about how good the books are, when they're pretty bad. I'm just saying that there is alot of better material out there, and in my opinion Harry Potter is on the bottom of the pile.
Reply Quote
90 Human Paladin
9475
07/17/2011 11:01 AMPosted by Djpremier
I'm an avid reader. I love Wheel of Time, have read all of the Ender's books, everything Heinlein wrote, loved the Princess of Mars books, Herbert's Dune (the first 2 - everything else was just weird lol) and on and on... and to be honest I enjoyed Harry Potter. Everyone is different, just because you didn't like Harry Potter is no reason to discourage others from reading it and encouraging them to burn those books lol.


The burning of the books was complete humor, which is hard to convey through a forum haha, though I just hate hearing about how good the books are, when they're pretty bad. I'm just saying that there is alot of better material out there, and in my opinion Harry Potter is on the bottom of the pile.


That's you opinion. I've read a variety of books, including many of the ones you mentioned, and I personally found HP to be well-written and quite enjoyable. Heck, yesterday I both got my copy of Dance of Dragons signed by George RR Martin and hours later saw The Deathly Hallows Part 2.

Anyway, Stephen King has already gone into great detail explaining why Rowling is actually a great writer: http://www.ew.com/ew/article/0,,20431232_20050689,00.html
Reply Quote
85 Dwarf Shaman
4565
07/17/2011 08:08 AMPosted by Cyclrin
They're childrens books man. Calm down.


As much as you might think, I don't think a 7 year old would read Deathly Hallows. You see to have a very disturbed view on what a "child" is.


They're specifically designed and written to age with the reader.

The first book in the series is targeted at 10-11 year olds, whereas the final book in the series is meant for 17-18 year olds.


Reply Quote
63 Tauren Hunter
0
It's been some time since I read it, and I stopped following the movies about halfway through, but what's so bad about Deathly Hallows?

I'm put in mind of how Neil Gaiman writes for children, in Coraline and The Graveyard Book. Both are rather dark; concerns were brought up for the Coraline movie that it was too scary for children. Grimm's Fairy Tales are also a popular reference point. It's really not that outlandish for children to be introduced to darker themes in stories.

Course, if you weren't referring to the 'darker' theme of the book, then I apologize for the tangent.
Reply Quote
19 Gnome Mage
6555
Let me just pick this apart and laugh at you for a second.



The books suck.

◙ Harry potter has sold about 450 million books.


07/16/2011 10:03 PMPosted by Djpremier
Generic Plot Line set in our World (Sorta). Theres "The One" who goes around getting ready and having confrontations with "Bad Guy #1". He develops relationships, gets friends, loses friends. Kills Bad Guy #1.

◙ A generic plot in a book for youths /clap



07/16/2011 10:03 PMPosted by Djpremier
The biggest problem, is how bland the books are. There's hardly any background on any of the characters, or on the setting (Hogwarts). There's just the main problem, then it ends. Then the book is done. You could take all the background from everything Rowling describes in the series, and fit it in 3-5 pages.

◙ That is an overstatement, albeit a small one, yet these books are still written for 10- late teens.



07/16/2011 10:03 PMPosted by Djpremier
Hermoine's parents are dentists. They go to Australia. That is about 90% of the background for one of the three main characters.

◙ I must assume retarded or trolling.




07/16/2011 10:03 PMPosted by Djpremier
Also, character development in the book is awful. I feel like Harry didn't change at all through the entire series. He stayed the same, reacted the same, got a bit more serious about things, a bit less afraid, but that was about it.

◙ A character matured over 7 years and his characteristics stayed the same, are you Sherlock Holmes? This is a series for youths.


07/16/2011 10:03 PMPosted by Djpremier
Also with characters, Rowling tends to either talk about them, and never ever introduce them, or introduce them with a nice bit, keep them for a chapter, and though they're still alive and still in Hogwarts always around, they aren't mentioned for the rest of the series. (Peeves got like 1 chapter. He was the man.)

◙ You mean there was little information about supporting characters? Who would have thought that would happen in a youth's series.
◙ A lot of them are mentioned more then once.



07/16/2011 10:03 PMPosted by Djpremier
There is more I can write about, but I feel like I'm only going to get flamed more :)

◙ Lets see it.


In closing, Harry Potter does well what it intends to do. It entertains the young. It has a fairytale ending and this is all stereotypical for a series for youths. If you want to read a maturer series with complicated backgrounds and plots, read that.
Reply Quote
85 Dwarf Shaman
4565
It's been some time since I read it, and I stopped following the movies about halfway through, but what's so bad about Deathly Hallows?

I'm put in mind of how Neil Gaiman writes for children, in Coraline and The Graveyard Book. Both are rather dark; concerns were brought up for the Coraline movie that it was too scary for children. Grimm's Fairy Tales are also a popular reference point. It's really not that outlandish for children to be introduced to darker themes in stories.

Course, if you weren't referring to the 'darker' theme of the book, then I apologize for the tangent.


I think one of the issues is that prior to the last book, the Deathly Hallows were never mentioned before. Harry's cloak is around, but it's never said prior to the last book that it's a Hallow or that it's so unique.

I just found that at least to be somewhat sloppy. Never heard of these super powerful things before but now they just show up at the end of the series and are incredibly important.
Reply Quote
90 Human Paladin
9475
I think one of the issues is that prior to the last book, the Deathly Hallows were never mentioned before. Harry's cloak is around, but it's never said prior to the last book that it's a Hallow or that it's so unique.

I just found that at least to be somewhat sloppy. Never heard of these super powerful things before but now they just show up at the end of the series and are incredibly important.


Obviously, she didn't think of the deathly hallows until the final book. Over the course of the books Rowling's system of magic continuously evolved. You'd get port-keys brought up in Goblet of Fire as a major plot device, but I don't believe they were ever mentioned prior to that book. You got Polly-Juice as a plot device in Chamber of Secrets, but it was never mentioned in The Philosopher's Stone. Brian Sanderson brought up some very good points concerning Rowling's books, in that over the course of the entire series her magic is 'soft', as each book can add magic spells,potions, or other plot devices that were never mentioned previously. However, once those concepts have been established usually early on in the book, that magic remains 'hard' throughout the entirety of the book

Take the port-keys in Goblet of Fire. In one of the early chapters they all run to touch the port-key and teleport to safety. From that moment onwards nothing in the behavior of port-keys change, and it doesn't become an important plot-device until near the end of the book.

From http://www.brandonsanderson.com/article/40/Sandersons-First-Law:

Most writers are somewhere in the middle between these two extremes. A good example of what I consider to be near the center point would be Rowling's Harry Potter books. Each of these books outlines various rules, laws, and ideas for the magic of the world. And, in that given book, those laws are rarely violated, and often they are important to the workings of the book's climax. However, if you look at the setting as a whole, you don't really ever understand the capabilities of magic. She adds new rules as she adds books, expanding the system, sometimes running into contradictions and conveniently forgetting abilities the characters had in previous novels. These lapses aren't important to the story, and each single book is generally cohesive.

I think she balances this rather well, actually. In specifics, her magic is hard. In the big picture, her magic is soft. That allows her to use magic as points of conflict resolution, yet maintain a strong sense of wonder in the novels.
Reply Quote
19 Gnome Mage
6555
I think one of the issues is that prior to the last book, the Deathly Hallows were never mentioned before. Harry's cloak is around, but it's never said prior to the last book that it's a Hallow or that it's so unique.

I just found that at least to be somewhat sloppy. Never heard of these super powerful things before but now they just show up at the end of the series and are incredibly important.


Read the fifth book.
It'll contradict that for you.
Reply Quote
85 Human Warlock
4450
For me the story is about Snape, and some of the other side stories MORE than Harry vs Voldemort.
Reply Quote
90 Human Rogue
9165
If you think Harry Potter sucks so badly, I suggest you go and try reading twilight.
Reply Quote
71 Blood Elf Paladin
2680
They are easy to read, and the general populace cannot stand to read anything above a 5th grade reading level. Should just be happy someone is reading in the first place. Although OP, your list you made are not good books, except wheel of time, but i guess that is all in opinion. 3 on that list took ages to read and then i want to /wrist after due to how i had just subjected myself to that torture, although i do agree that the HP series isnt that great, but i still believe they are good books, due to the fact they are getting people to read.
Reply Quote
20 Troll Warrior
120
Your opinion is of no concern to me, good day.
Reply Quote
85 Dwarf Shaman
8590
Loved Wheel of Time. Loved the Dark Tower. Loved everything with Tolkien's name on it. Loved the Chronicles. Just started reading Song of Ice and Fire series.

Loved Harry Potter. Suck it.
Reply Quote
90 Orc Death Knight
13240
Hola People, let me introduce myself, I'm Djpremier, and an AVID reader. (Thats in all caps for a reason). I've read hundreds of fantasy/sci-fi books, military history, fiction, philosophy, you name it, I've read it. (Aside from romance, that is just straight up boring.)

Now, everyone has heard of Harry Potter. And if you ask anyone about it, anywhere from 7 to 9 out of 10 will say how much they looooooove the books and how much they looooooove the movies. My big problem with it is: The books and movies suck. Lets ignore the movies and focus on the good stuff, the books.

So first off: Generic Plot Line set in our World (Sorta). Theres "The One" who goes around getting ready and having confrontations with "Bad Guy #1". He develops relationships, gets friends, loses friends. Kills Bad Guy #1.

So the plotline is generic as hell, but you know what, not a huge deal. Most books have this plot line, and everyone loves it (though it tends to get old.) The biggest problem, is how bland the books are. There's hardly any background on any of the characters, or on the setting (Hogwarts). There's just the main problem, then it ends. Then the book is done. You could take all the background from everything Rowling describes in the series, and fit it in 3-5 pages.

For instance: Hermoine's parents are dentists. They go to Australia. That is about 90% of the background for one of the three main characters.

Also, character development in the book is awful. I feel like Harry didn't change at all through the entire series. He stayed the same, reacted the same, got a bit more serious about things, a bit less afraid, but that was about it.

Also with characters, Rowling tends to either talk about them, and never ever introduce them, or introduce them with a nice bit, keep them for a chapter, and though they're still alive and still in Hogwarts always around, they aren't mentioned for the rest of the series. (Peeves got like 1 chapter. He was the man.)

There is more I can write about, but I feel like I'm only going to get flamed more :)

Now I'm sure all the Harry Potter fans will bash me, but please just read it through, and read some real good books. Of course this is completely subjective and my opinion, but I'm interested to see if anyone else shares my hatred for Harry Potter.

Good books to read:

Song of Ice and Fire
Wheel of Time
Malazan Book of the Fallen
The Magician's Guild
Warhammer 40k: Horus Heresy
Ender's Game

There are a number more, and I encourage everyone to put away their Harry Potter books (perferably into an active fireplace, but if you dont have one currently, feel free to use the trash can) and try something new!


k
Reply Quote
6 Worgen Druid
0
it's light, child-friendly reading and hardly worth critiquing

what philosophy have you read?
Reply Quote

Please report any Code of Conduct violations, including:

Threats of violence. We take these seriously and will alert the proper authorities.

Posts containing personal information about other players. This includes physical addresses, e-mail addresses, phone numbers, and inappropriate photos and/or videos.

Harassing or discriminatory language. This will not be tolerated.

Forums Code of Conduct

Report Post # written by

Reason
Explain (256 characters max)
Submit Cancel

Reported!

[Close]