Tier 11 Valor Point Hotfix
07/20/2011 09:50 AMPosted by SophyliaI honestly don't see why players raiding firelands weekly and killing some bosses would actually complain about it. They'll get geared at a much faster pace since they'll be rewarded by loot dropped by FL bosses, which players not running them won't get and remain at the weekly VP cap.
because now 'valor points' are 'badges of justice'.
07/18/2011 08:35 PMPosted by ArothandI like this change, but I think you went a bit too far in the opposite direction; it's now going to be just a little bit TOO easy to get VP.
Except its not any easier than before to get capped. Just slightly less tedious and mind-numbingly boring. Hell, now I might actually go on my guilds alt BWD/BOT runs, if it'll save me from having to run a couple of those god forsaken troll heroics.
People like you are what's making this game die.
Newsflash, people like you aren't the majority. the majority are actual proper casuals like me who don't whine for easier content, and don't complain until Blizzard gives you more and more and more ways to earn entitlement badges. You will never be satisfied and Blizzard will keep making consession after consession because Activision believes you are the majority because you label yourself a casual, and Kotick wants to maximise profits, which is dumb. FFXI still has a VERY healthy community despite being smaller and more tight-knit than WoW. and FFXI has been around for 7 years and counting. did the players of FFXI ever complain that Dynamis was too hard, or it was hard to get their Emperyan Weapons and AF3 done in Abyssea? No, because FFXI is the opposite of this game, where the playerbase is engineered to tough it out and get better at their class and to work together in a team.
Being "casual" has nothing to do with how good you are at this game. Me? I maybe log on for a few hours at best. Look at my Raid Progression, I've only killed Argoloth and I'm still trying to get into some kind of raid. ANd Guess what, I am embarassed I have any Firelord's gear at all! I think I don't deserve it because I just facerolled 5-mans and got it with entitlement badges! I wanted to be presented with some kind of test or really hard boss to get my gloves or leggings, but I did not. Do I want to raid? Sure. Am I looking forward to doing nerfed content that's insulting to my intelligence? No. Do I look forward to beating fights because of overgearing? No. Why do people like you want to ruin the game for people who want challenge and for gear rewards to mean something?
First, I'm gonna point out that I don't know jack about Final Fantasy. I've only ever played two or three of their games, and haven't beaten any, and while I liked them, I don't know much about them, and besides, Final Fantasy is irrelevant to a WoW issue.
If you'd care to take a look at MY raid progression, you'll see I haven't cleared any of the Cata raids yet either. Also, do I have any t12? No, I don't. I have a hard time getting into raids as well, and I do enjoy a challenge. I don't possibly understand how you can take up the position you're taking when all the justification you used would actually be better suited to MY position. You don't raid. I don't much either, only with my guild on a few occasions.
Listen, I have no bone to pick with you personally. But for you to say that somehow, some way, 4.0 raids don't deserve any VPs unless it's heroic at this point, when 5man heroics and ZA/ZG do, and you don't have a problem with that (so far as I've seen, haven't read the whole thread, and don't really plan to) makes absolutely no sense to me whatsoever. How can 5man randoms be worth more than 10 or 25 man raids? I don't see any problem with BWD or BoT awarding VPs to some extent still, especially since the 5mans do (and they offer MORE, which baffles me somewhat).
If there IS one thing I'd agree with, it's that, to be honest, VPs should come from Firelands raiding, and nothing else, or a much more limited amount from other raids, and preferably not 5mans. I see Blizzard's purpose in giving us extra options, however, because trying to gear up a rogue with raiding as well as a healer with raiding at a somewhat equal rate requires a bit more freedom. If I want, I can heal 5mans with fast queues and raid with my rogue and get both geared pretty well. However, I'm sick of gearing up, and haven't bothered much, as you can see, you can armory my druid, Ixtyriz, and see just how little I've done this patch.
Also, how do gear rewards not still mean something, with this change? If anything, they mean less because of the LFD VP option, not the raiding option, which is the entire purpose of this thread.
I still don't agree with you on most things, although I do advocate for Attunements. It would make more sense. I'm levelling a priest right now, and it'd make no real sense for me to just go from heroics to a Deathwing kill (if it takes me that long to level) especially if it were my first max toon. Although I think that, to an extent, those attunements could be made account-wide, so that for the insane people who have more than 5-6 max toons don't have to spend hours and hours just attuning each character when they're already experienced enough.
You can make an argument that current tier shouldn't be available for purchase with Valor at all, that's a valid opinion to state. But that's a different topic.
What you're saying is that by us adding additional but less accessible ways (raids) to obtain VP that it somehow makes the rewards less meaningful than they were when people could 'only use Dungeon Finder' to get them. Sorry but that just doesn't make any sense.
As strange as it is for me to say, I have to agree with the Devs on this. I've had issues with alot of things they've done in WoW, but this was a good change on their part.
They could make an argument for current tier ONLY being available in current tier. But regardless of how someone feels, that's an outdated mode of thinking. That changed at the end of BC when the badge merchant that sold T5/6 quality stuff was available for T4 badges. And current tier for doing random 5 mans was used as a template through *all* of Wrath. Getting a few pieces of current tier without doing current tier is just not a new concept. I don't know why people are acting like it is.
The biggest impact this will has is raid longevity. How many people ran Ulduar when ToC was introduced and you could buy Ulduar gear from running heroics (and ToC gear from the once a day random heroic reward)? How many people ran ToC when Icc was open? Why would anyone run old content when you can buy the same gear or better from doing heroics?
Now people at least have a reason to run the old raids. In wrath you went from lvl 80 to heroics to icc with maybe a splash in ToC cause it was fast. I mean you can look at this characters progression and you see that.
So really, people could argue that valor shouldn't be accessible without current tier. But as long as you can get valor from 5 mans, this change will only have a positive impact.
And you can look at this char gear and see how fast it is to gear for ZA/ZG. ZA was my second heroic, and I had the GS for it within 2 days of hitting 85(and only cause I was a slacker and didn't run to rep merchants). Yet I'm still a bit over 6% away from RAID hit cap. So I'd have to put in more effort to gear for raids to "farm valor" then I would for ZA/ZG. Where, right now I can do 5 mans with zero extra effort. Not like my valor cap changes, I just have to put in more effort to raid then do a 5 man...this change doesn't make it easier in any stretch to get valor...It just lets people have another option. And one that's LESS easy then previous options. But i'm ok with it being slightly harder since I enjoy raiding more then running the same 5 instance for 2 years. It also means I won't HATE these heroics in a year like I did in wrath.
07/20/2011 12:36 PMPosted by OdaAgreed. The overall VP cap should be raised but the cap for VP earned from 5 man dungeons and T11 raids should remain capped at 980.
I can agree with the need for a sector of VP to be FL only. maybe a third or a quarter? first 3 bosses are puggable so...360-ish?
07/20/2011 11:53 AMPosted by Feandelgreat now u guys need to raise the valor cap back to 1250
From current raids? Yes. From anywhere else? No.
It's not a source of more VP, it's just another source for the same VP.
I 100% support this idea. It's slightly off topic as it doesn't have much to do with this patch change or more to do with the cap change.
In wrath, when this whole idea really took shape, you could buy (insert current tier gear here) from running heroics. But it was at a slower pace then people who were actually running (insert current tier raid here). And I always thought that functioned pretty well. It let the people actually running said raids to get the gear, slightly faster. Since they are the ones most in need of it (for progression). The people running heroics were still getting previous tier gear fairly quickly so they could get into current tier.
I think it'd be completely reasonable to give them that slight edge over people not in (insert current tier). That to me sounds completely fair (and I thought the same through all of wrath). I do hope the devs give this idea some real though *nod*.
I completely agree with this change. If you are giving VP for ZA/ZG, then 4.0 raid bosses should be able to give VP as well.
However, I do think that running ZA/ZG + 4.0 raid bosses alone should not be able to max out your VP.
I think the Firelands bosses VP should be seperate like it was back in 4.0; current content raiders deserve more for the hard work (and I'm not a current content raider).
And current content raiders already GET more. They get access to gear that cannot be purchased from the vendor. They get access to hard modes, which give them yet ANOTHER gear set not available from vendors. Raid instances ARE a larger portion of this game, maybe not the entire focus of it, but still a large portion of it. But the number of people raiding current tier content is disproportional to the amount of content that is offered, meaning there are a lot less raiders than non raiders.
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