Tier 11 Valor Point Hotfix

(Locked)

42 Undead Rogue
220
07/24/2011 09:26 PMPosted by Astralrage
This. This is what blizzard needs to understand. Complainers are the loudest. They are in no way, shape or form, the majority. People that are happy don't run to the forums and say "Hey blizz! Good job current raids having a higher cap than running heroics everyday!" and then have 50 pages of posts with people stopping what they're doing to congratulate blizz.


If you honestly think Blizzard is making game changes based on feedback on the forum, I really don't know what to tell you.

And no, the raiders that is progressing is easily the minority here. They are, in no way, shape, or form, the majority. The number of servers where there is minimal if no PvE progression far outweight those that has an excellent PvE setting.
Where did I say anything about raiders, casuals, etc? I said complainers are the loudest. And they are in no way, shape or form the majority. Because they aren't. And you need to understand that there aren't HARDCORE RAIDERS and then CASUALS. I play only to raid. I don't have alot of time to play, so I only log on to raid. I raid 3 nights a week for 3 hours each time. 9 hours a week. There are players that have never stepped foot in a raid that play 9 hours a day. Playtime means nothing.

People got what they wanted. They got nerfed T11 content. They got vp's for old content. My complaint is having raid valor cap lowered. Don't get so upset. I'm not a "OMFG ELITIST-NOLIFEHAVINGBASEMENTDWELLINGDBAG" I don't go around bashing people, and I don't go around calling people bad. But there is nothing wrong with having raiders cap 150 higher a week.
42 Undead Rogue
220
07/25/2011 12:23 AMPosted by Policia


If you honestly think Blizzard is making game changes based on feedback on the forum, I really don't know what to tell you.

And no, the raiders that is progressing is easily the minority here. They are, in no way, shape, or form, the majority. The number of servers where there is minimal if no PvE progression far outweight those that has an excellent PvE setting.
Where did I say anything about raiders, casuals, etc? I said complainers are the loudest. And they are in no way, shape or form the majority. Because they aren't. And you need to understand that there aren't HARDCORE RAIDERS and then CASUALS. I play only to raid. I don't have alot of time to play, so I only log on to raid. I raid 3 nights a week for 3 hours each time. 9 hours a week. There are players that have never stepped foot in a raid that play 9 hours a day. Playtime means nothing.

People got what they wanted. They got nerfed T11 content. They got vp's for old content. My complaint is having raid valor cap lowered. Don't get so upset. I'm not a "OMFG ELITIST-NOLIFEHAVINGBASEMENTDWELLINGDBAG" I don't go around bashing people, and I don't go around calling people bad. But there is nothing wrong with having raiders cap 150 higher a week.


And read Draxx's post on the front page:

"Due to some recent player feedback we’ve made the decision to implement a hotfix that will put Valor Points back on the bosses in Blackwing Descent, Bastion of Twilight, and Throne of the Four Winds (except Argoloth)."

Where are they getting this feedback? Forums.
87 Blood Elf Hunter
8615
seems fair thx
80 Night Elf Priest
640
That doesn't make a majority. God forbid there's a system that gives you more the more you put in. I play to raid. I raid 3 times a week for 3 hours. That's 9 hours a week. There are below average players that barely raid that play that in a day. It doesn't require time. It requires understanding. And some people don't even want to do that. Everybody got what they wanted here. Almost. People got nerfed T11 content. Great. People got T11 bosses dropping VP. Okay. But lowering the cap through current content raiding just makes no sense. May as well get rid of JP's. There's more that you get VP from than JP.


Poor poor man. Work in a video game.. LOL
85 Night Elf Warrior
7985
And read Draxx's post on the front page:

"Due to some recent player feedback we’ve made the decision to implement a hotfix that will put Valor Points back on the bosses in Blackwing Descent, Bastion of Twilight, and Throne of the Four Winds (except Argoloth)."

Where are they getting this feedback? Forums.


Forums isn't the only place to get feedback from.

Sorry.
85 Night Elf Warrior
7985



If you honestly think Blizzard is making game changes based on feedback on the forum, I really don't know what to tell you.

And no, the raiders that is progressing is easily the minority here. They are, in no way, shape, or form, the majority. The number of servers where there is minimal if no PvE progression far outweight those that has an excellent PvE setting.


Where did I say anything about raiders, casuals, etc? I said complainers are the loudest. And they are in no way, shape or form the majority. Because they aren't. And you need to understand that there aren't HARDCORE RAIDERS and then CASUALS. I play only to raid. I don't have alot of time to play, so I only log on to raid. I raid 3 nights a week for 3 hours each time. 9 hours a week. There are players that have never stepped foot in a raid that play 9 hours a day. Playtime means nothing.

People got what they wanted. They got nerfed T11 content. They got vp's for old content. My complaint is having raid valor cap lowered. Don't get so upset. I'm not a "OMFG ELITIST-NOLIFEHAVINGBASEMENTDWELLINGDBAG" I don't go around bashing people, and I don't go around calling people bad. But there is nothing wrong with having raiders cap 150 higher a week.


And Blizzard don't take the word of the complainers any more than anyone else. A lot of people, insane and sane, was asking for this because it didn't make sense. You get no VP for nerfed T11, which is still harder for anyone who wasn't farming T11 pre-4.2, and yet you get 140 VP for a 5-man ZA/ZG clear that been out for at least 2 months and done by a good portion of the playerbase (more than anyone who cleared T11, that's for sure).

I lost the logic on that one. It is still harder to put together a 10-man for T11, it's still harder to down these T11 encounters, and yet you are rewarded much less when you do.

No, this change makes sense and I, for once, agree with the so-called "complainers".

As for the VP boost, I really don't see the point. You would say, "Well, raiders raid. They should get more for doing the hardest content." and I would say, "They ARE getting more......with 378 gear no one else can get and a reputation tab with more free gear available at their beck and call."

I'm not against the VP increase for raiders. But I'm sure it does nothing of value for them. It certainly doesn't make them feel "rewarded" when all they are getting is offspec gear at that point.

Why increase Valor cap when it isn't the "carrot on the stick" to begin with? In 2-3 more weeks, raiders will just use it to boost their gold amounts because they got all of their main spec gear off of it.
Edited by Astralrage on 7/25/2011 6:14 AM PDT
85 Blood Elf Paladin
4370
I would personally like to see a Conquest to Valor vendor, I like pvp, but my guild needs healers and I have grown very bored of the dungeons so I dont run them anymore. But I digress, I like pvp but I want to raid more than do arenas and while I pull decent dps, I could be doing a lot more with the new Valor gear.
100 Night Elf Death Knight
13010
Should be fun - more VP out there
86 Undead Warrior
14260
07/18/2011 07:28 PMPosted by Drkorq
Thanks for less ZA/ZG
90 Tauren Paladin
7195
The heroic versions arent nerd. idk what your smoking..
90 Tauren Paladin
7195
Shut up, stop with all the QQ !@#$%?
90 Orc Death Knight
8530


Where did I say anything about raiders, casuals, etc? I said complainers are the loudest. And they are in no way, shape or form the majority. Because they aren't. And you need to understand that there aren't HARDCORE RAIDERS and then CASUALS. I play only to raid. I don't have alot of time to play, so I only log on to raid. I raid 3 nights a week for 3 hours each time. 9 hours a week. There are players that have never stepped foot in a raid that play 9 hours a day. Playtime means nothing.

People got what they wanted. They got nerfed T11 content. They got vp's for old content. My complaint is having raid valor cap lowered. Don't get so upset. I'm not a "OMFG ELITIST-NOLIFEHAVINGBASEMENTDWELLINGDBAG" I don't go around bashing people, and I don't go around calling people bad. But there is nothing wrong with having raiders cap 150 higher a week.


And Blizzard don't take the word of the complainers any more than anyone else. A lot of people, insane and sane, was asking for this because it didn't make sense. You get no VP for nerfed T11, which is still harder for anyone who wasn't farming T11 pre-4.2, and yet you get 140 VP for a 5-man ZA/ZG clear that been out for at least 2 months and done by a good portion of the playerbase (more than anyone who cleared T11, that's for sure).

I lost the logic on that one. It is still harder to put together a 10-man for T11, it's still harder to down these T11 encounters, and yet you are rewarded much less when you do.

No, this change makes sense and I, for once, agree with the so-called "complainers".

As for the VP boost, I really don't see the point. You would say, "Well, raiders raid. They should get more for doing the hardest content." and I would say, "They ARE getting more......with 378 gear no one else can get and a reputation tab with more free gear available at their beck and call."

I'm not against the VP increase for raiders. But I'm sure it does nothing of value for them. It certainly doesn't make them feel "rewarded" when all they are getting is offspec gear at that point.

Why increase Valor cap when it isn't the "carrot on the stick" to begin with? In 2-3 more weeks, raiders will just use it to boost their gold amounts because they got all of their main spec gear off of it.


I agree with you. Valor is to get less significant pieces of gear besides the tier pieces, so it's not a big deal.

I have one problem and one wish however.

I dislike the fact that tier pieces can be obtained solely through valor. Sure it takes a little bit of time and dedication to get valor capped each week, but it's not all that hard. I preferred it when the only way to get tier pieces was to down bosses in the current content. I know that's how it works with heroic, but not many people have cleared regular, let alone heroic yet. I would just prefer it if the tier tokens ALSO dropped from bosses, all 5 pieces. Just a thought, so that way current tier raiders, doing the hardest content, can get the same gear everyone else will get, just a little quicker.

My WISH however, is that we went back to 8 piece tier sets. Damn I miss those days. You just feel so much more complete when all of the armor itself is in the same set, rather then 5 matching pieces and 3 "picked up from wherever" pieces.

JUST MY OPINION HOWEVER.
85 Draenei Paladin
2915
cheers
42 Undead Rogue
220
07/25/2011 05:45 AMPosted by Keylogger
That doesn't make a majority. God forbid there's a system that gives you more the more you put in. I play to raid. I raid 3 times a week for 3 hours. That's 9 hours a week. There are below average players that barely raid that play that in a day. It doesn't require time. It requires understanding. And some people don't even want to do that. Everybody got what they wanted here. Almost. People got nerfed T11 content. Great. People got T11 bosses dropping VP. Okay. But lowering the cap through current content raiding just makes no sense. May as well get rid of JP's. There's more that you get VP from than JP.


Poor poor man. Work in a video game.. LOL
Who said anything about work? My argument that it isn't work. Far, far from it. Your passive/aggressiveness is showing.

But @Astra, I'm not arguing against the T11 VP thing. I'm arguing against the cap being lowered. I just don't see it as something that was necessary at all.
85 Human Paladin
11570

Poor poor man. Work in a video game.. LOL


nobody says "it's just a game" when his team is winning...
85 Blood Elf Death Knight
2440
Thanks for less za.zg AWSOME!!
90 Blood Elf Mage
6830
yyaayy hour wait times in za/zg queue this is bull
85 Night Elf Warrior
7985


And Blizzard don't take the word of the complainers any more than anyone else. A lot of people, insane and sane, was asking for this because it didn't make sense. You get no VP for nerfed T11, which is still harder for anyone who wasn't farming T11 pre-4.2, and yet you get 140 VP for a 5-man ZA/ZG clear that been out for at least 2 months and done by a good portion of the playerbase (more than anyone who cleared T11, that's for sure).

I lost the logic on that one. It is still harder to put together a 10-man for T11, it's still harder to down these T11 encounters, and yet you are rewarded much less when you do.

No, this change makes sense and I, for once, agree with the so-called "complainers".

As for the VP boost, I really don't see the point. You would say, "Well, raiders raid. They should get more for doing the hardest content." and I would say, "They ARE getting more......with 378 gear no one else can get and a reputation tab with more free gear available at their beck and call."

I'm not against the VP increase for raiders. But I'm sure it does nothing of value for them. It certainly doesn't make them feel "rewarded" when all they are getting is offspec gear at that point.

Why increase Valor cap when it isn't the "carrot on the stick" to begin with? In 2-3 more weeks, raiders will just use it to boost their gold amounts because they got all of their main spec gear off of it.


I agree with you. Valor is to get less significant pieces of gear besides the tier pieces, so it's not a big deal.

I have one problem and one wish however.

I dislike the fact that tier pieces can be obtained solely through valor. Sure it takes a little bit of time and dedication to get valor capped each week, but it's not all that hard. I preferred it when the only way to get tier pieces was to down bosses in the current content. I know that's how it works with heroic, but not many people have cleared regular, let alone heroic yet. I would just prefer it if the tier tokens ALSO dropped from bosses, all 5 pieces. Just a thought, so that way current tier raiders, doing the hardest content, can get the same gear everyone else will get, just a little quicker.

My WISH however, is that we went back to 8 piece tier sets. Damn I miss those days. You just feel so much more complete when all of the armor itself is in the same set, rather then 5 matching pieces and 3 "picked up from wherever" pieces.

JUST MY OPINION HOWEVER.


I'm all for it. I miss how the Tier sets was obtained strictly via raiding only.

These days, I see a lot of ppl with 3/5 T11 and yet green gems or wrong gems in them. It's quite depressing. These players shouldn't be using Tier gear if this is what is coming out of it.

I don't mind offspec gear sets if you want to go that route.....but this? Unnecessary.

Also, I would be behind ANYONE that wants to promote 8-piece tier sets back into the game. I'm fine with 4-piece bonuses but I would want 8-piece complete tier sets once again.
85 Night Elf Warrior
7985

But @Astra, I'm not arguing against the T11 VP thing. I'm arguing against the cap being lowered. I just don't see it as something that was necessary at all.


And that's understandable. I don't really agree with it either but it does take pressure off of me to say, "Well, I MUST raid now so I can be Valor capped."

As to why Blizzard lowered the Valor cap, I have no idea. But considering T12 currently has 7 bosses, lowering it does increase how long it will take before you got all you want off of the Valor vendor. I'm sure Blizzard is trying to milk out how long this tier will last.
The problem I have with all these changes and nerfs is that they generally make for a worse PUG. In vanilla/TBC, we had PUG groups all the time without the RDF, which took longer to form, but people were better in that they needed to know the fights or suffer the consequences. I remember the first time my noob rogue went into H-MgT and didn't cloak off the orbs on whatever boss that was correctly, and I got shamed into actually looking up what the fight required from rogues.

As an example, my main was 12/12, and about 7/13 heroic before the patch (my guild was 11/13, I was just a backup). Post patch, I've been trying to pug BWD and BoT on alts just to get their VP up, because in 10 mans, we need to use our alts to sub in for suboptimal classes on certain encounters (LOL @ bring the player, not the class). I went into a pug BWD with a bunch of people hiding behind a Defender title, and they didn't even know that Electrocutes from Nefarian occured on the 10% marks, and that they could thus control how fast (or slow) they came. When I tried to bring the point up, they pointed out that they "knew" this content, as evidenced by their 1337 titles, and I should just shut up. The add tank didn't know that shadow blaze reset the stack on the adds in p3, and that if kited correctly, they'd drop to 0 and fall over, resetting the intense damage on the add tank (which is what all of p3 SHOULD be about). They had facerolled the first five bosses, releasing the prime subjects with 9 adds still up on Maloriak, or just soaking poison bombs on ODS, etc, and they expected to faceroll Nef, the end boss in a raid.

Any cooperative gaming venture in the current expansion (4.0+) should be designed so that people have to know their jobs and how to do them to be rewarded. People simply shouldn't be rewarded for not knowing how to do an encounter. This isn't a gripe about casual vs. hardcore gamers, even casuals should know how to use their abilities and how those abilities interact with a boss encounter. With the new encounter journal (a really, really good idea, btw), there's literally no excuse why people can't have even the most rudimentary research done on a boss, before actually going into it. I understand the differencce between reading about it and doing it, but people are expecting to go through t11 raids and facerolling through them without ever thinking, and that makes for a piss poor game. My alts still need gear from t11, but I cringe at the thought of pugging it (since our guild doesn't run it any more), and I won't unless it's majority guildies, which only happens on alt runs (which even now are moving towards Firelands, since our mains are working on heroic modes).
Edited by Curiae on 7/26/2011 1:09 PM PDT
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