Tier 11 Valor Point Hotfix

(Locked)

85 Tauren Warrior
11105
07/18/2011 08:52 PMPosted by Normie
Since there really is a minimal carrot to raiding tier 12 atm, the only people really pushing into it are the ones that love raiding. Which is proving to be a very very small portion of the assumed playerbase on the trackable servers.

Well, you see, it's hard to herd 10 cats and harder to herd 25.

Which is why raiding is not something the average WoW player does.


One of the big issues with raiding this whole expac actually blends down to how the 5 mans have been handled.

The 5s have to be pretty close to idiot proof to work in the RDF. (Sorry couldn't think of anything better to describe this...) The raids on the other hand assume several things. For instance: Ventrillo (or another chat program), certain addons, and a level of coordination.

If there were 5 mans that were created with those more advanced ideals in mind, several of the arguments concerning "cat herding" wouldn't be as big a deal. Coordinating even a 10 man vs a 25 man is considerably easier, even I will admit this. The core argument is how rewards are delt with though. Lets be perfectly frank, is it okay to reward how good someone is at "herding cats", or their skill level. I've always been more of a "reward skill level" kind of guy. My reasons for this are simple, the factors that go into large group raiding often have very little to do with skill and functions within the game.

Rewarding raiding content differently is really rewarding several things outside of the game itself. You can be the best player in the world, if you're not in the right guild, it doesn't mean jack. Where some would argue that this is the MMO aspect of the game, and they're partially right, I've always felt that rewarding that aspect greater is a long standing imbalance.

Weekly Cap is 980, you can get 420 VP from doing T11 raids (not many 25 man PuGs), that leaves 560 VP left to gain. You can only gain 490 VP from normal heroics. You're going to come up 70 short, you will have to do at least 1 ZA/ZG heroic, sorry. :(


Or kill the new BH boss. >.>
Edited by Gavan on 7/18/2011 9:04 PM PDT
58 Gnome Death Knight
0
What? Firelands badges for running 25% nerfed T11. WHAT?? NO NO NO NO NO NO!

Valor's allready too easy to get as it is. Well Blizzard, so much for "Current Tier of raiding is supposed to have challenge.". I guess you want every piece of content of be so easy /trade can pug it, because you listen to the people who don't want to improve and YOU want to sociallly engineer everyone to be bads.

I'm going back to Final Fantasy 11. Say what you will about Abyssea, at least SE's Devs know how to make content more accessable without sapping all the challenge from it.


Uh, the nerfed tier 11 content is still harder than content I can threebox all of.
- Technical Support
90 Blood Elf Hunter
17635
07/18/2011 08:43 PMPosted by Vinnythechin
Funny how 98% of the people that have posted to this and agree with this change have no decent raid gear or any hardships completed.


I wouldn't say quite that. People can have different opinions regardless of skill or raid experience. Not everybody is going to down 7/7 FL each week to cap their VP so they would normally have to hop into troll heroics to finish things up. Many players - I'm assuming especially those with lots of alts - welcome this change because it adds some variety. The troll heroics are about as trivial as the previous tier's raids are now. This honestly won't change whether or not people decide to cap their VP, but it will allow them to enjoy the ride a bit more.
________________________________________________
The wise speak only of what they know. - J.R.R. Tolkien
CORE I7 3.8GHz | 12GB RAM | ATI 5970+5870 | F120 SSD
Live Support: irc://chat.freenode.net/wowtech
90 Night Elf Rogue
12395
07/18/2011 08:54 PMPosted by Xarí
ok seriously, i dont normally post but on this topic i am going to. yea call it nerd rage or w/e floats your trolls boats how ever i am pretty sure a high population of the wow community will agree with me on this statement.I think it is complete bull#*!* that wow 95% of the time always answers the huge crys from the little kids who always make the excuse of "im only a semi hardcore raiding guild so we dont down bosses as fast" or "i only have a limited time that i can spend playing and i should be able to also get my vp caps and obtain the best gear in the game just as much as anyone else"now for my "nerd rage" no sir, you do not deserve to have stuff handed to you over the people who accually put time and effort into doing it. If your a "semi-hardcore" raider and you cant VP cap by the end of the week then you sir are a pathetic gamer and dont deserve to call yourself one. I am a semi hardcore raider, we only raid 2 nights a week sometimes 1 night a week for only 3 hours each raid night. we dont have problems working on our bosses, plus BH give you depending how good your guild is, anywhere from needing 2-4 troll runs max, and you are telling me that you cant get that within a 7 day period?"i dont have the time to spend many hours raiding i should have just as much right to get the high end gear as anyone else" no sir, you do not. if your playing a MMO and you want to do raiding and you cant put time into it, then guess what, you shouldnt be entitled to anything, go PvP, go run 5 mans, or set at least 1 day that you can spend in a raid each week. if you cant do it then maybe you should really play a different game, go play runescape or something.complaining that you cant vp cap each week is seriously a joke. when they first introduced the valor and justice point system it use to be the only way to get it is the fact that you got it from raids only and your 1 daily heroic each day. they have now given you the option to troll random or heroic random 7 times for VP repeatedly in 1 day, you can litterally VP cap in 1 day of game play, they have already given you this and you still complain? and blizzard really? you give in that crying? and here you guys sit on your offices and you cant understand why you have lost over 65,000 subscribers that one month? i mean really? honestly in my personal opinion which again is mine alone and if anyone feels they agree with me hey more power to you if you dont agree with me im sure i will see your trolls cause thats what your best at, but put your god damn foot down blizzard, go back to how this buisness use to be ran when you first released this game, and make it challanging to people again. If they cant handle it then they need to learn the game more properly cause nothing is more annoying then when you get a pug group together on an alt, and you get a member in your raid who has the achievment and has more then enough gear needed and your sitting there wondering how hes dpsing just as much as most classes god damn auto attack for!! stop handing out free gear already. thats all i have to say on this topic, to all the trollers, kiss my ass, to all the people who agree with me, piss off also, grow a pair and start voiceing your opinions rather then sitting in your guild vents complaining to your guild members about it and stop letting these little whine asses ruin our game that we have come to love and enjoy


I agree its bull that blizzard gives the majority what it wants sooo unfair its like WTF??
I would have liked to see the raids treated like heroics are, with VP for clearing them and the bosses still dropping JP. 140 for BWD (because it's longer and harder), 70 for Throne and Bastion. That sounds reasonable and still provides a "carrot on a stick" to go there in a group, while there are still good upgrades to have.


You would just need to get your alt run to the last boss, then you have 9 weeks of last boss kills. Even better yet, just go in trade and run who ever has a last boss save, that they can extend, through it with your guild.
85 Tauren Warrior
11105
07/18/2011 09:05 PMPosted by Point
I would have liked to see the raids treated like heroics are, with VP for clearing them and the bosses still dropping JP. 140 for BWD (because it's longer and harder), 70 for Throne and Bastion. That sounds reasonable and still provides a "carrot on a stick" to go there in a group, while there are still good upgrades to have.


You would just need to get your alt run to the last boss, then you have 9 weeks of last boss kills. Even better yet, just go in trade and run who ever has a last boss save, that they can extend, through it with your guild.


Point taken. (Pun intended.)
86 Blood Elf Death Knight
12455
How to read wall of text oh god don't know?
85 Blood Elf Paladin
2400
Thank you immensely. This is a great victory for the powers of good over the evil that is endlessly grinding 5-mans for badges.

The next battle in this glorious quest is getting Valour Ponts removed from 5-mans altogether!
90 Blood Elf Paladin
14160
Two comments:

1) what they should have done is make the bosses worth 70 each but cap it at 490 the same way regular heroics are capped.

2) Having different valor awards for 10 vs. 25 is crap. Sorry, but if anything the effort from each individual in a 10-man raid matters more than in a 25-man raid, and the encounters take the same amount of time investment whether it is 10 or 25. The per-person reward should be identical in 10 vs. 25, if Bliz really thinks these are equally valid.
85 Night Elf Hunter
10410
07/18/2011 07:25 PMPosted by Houseofshame
Thank you for hearing our concerns and responding. It's nice to know that we're heard.


07/18/2011 07:28 PMPosted by Drkorq
Thanks for less ZA/ZG
85 Goblin Death Knight
4895
This is a huge step backwards. I for one think Valor should be less available and should have the best returns from current tier Raids...Not 5 mans and old content.
24 Human Paladin
0
I don't understand why ZA/ZG rewards so many points per week. That needs to be lowered and FL bosses should drop more.

Its old content, 4.1, not 4.2. What does a 5-man have to do with getting current raid quality and current tier gear?

I enjoy raiding.. thats all I do in the game. Most people in my guild are rarely online for anything else. We only play 7 hours a week. I hate feeling forced to do something. Now it takes me 2-3 times longer to get my tier times as everyone else.
85 Draenei Shaman
5575
While I agree that this change will be more helpful from people who haven't made much progress in Firelands yet, I think that the heroic T11 bosses should be giving more VP than the normal mode t11 bosses. After the nerfs to T11, even heroic Halfus is much harder than any of the end bosses on normal mode, and I think that having all T11 bosses (normal and heroic) giving the same number of VP isn't fair to the groups willing to give the extra effort needed on heroic bosses.
24 Human Paladin
0
07/18/2011 09:24 PMPosted by Attilian
This is a huge step backwards. I for one think Valor should be less available and should have the best returns from current tier Raids...Not 5 mans and old content.


+1
85 Goblin Death Knight
4895
I don't understand why ZA/ZG rewards so many points per week. That needs to be lowered and FL bosses should drop more.



This x100

Seriously Blizzard, The best way to get Valor Points SHOULD be through Firelands....As of right now, the best way to get Valor points is through T11 and Heroics. This is a HUGE step backwards even farther than ZA/ZG being the best place to get Valor in 4.2. Heroics and T11 should NOT be able to get you anywhere near cap. Only T12 should.
85 Goblin Death Knight
4895
07/18/2011 09:25 PMPosted by Groknokk
Either give the majority of your players ( casuals, not snobs like you) what they want, or lose them. I cant begin to tell you how many friends I made ingame who quit because of the difficulty of Cata at launch. Blizz is correcting course, but it may be to little too late.


I'm casual. I raid maybe 9 hours a week...That's hardly Hardcore but This is a stupid change. Please stop equating Casual to bad. Even as a Casual Raiding guild we cleared T11 pre-nerf. Just because you're still struggling (and we are too attendence wise) to get stuff in FL done doesn't mean that this change is warranted. This is a stupid change and a huge step backwards for progression. I don't care if this is a double post. I don't think this is the right direction that Valor should be going. Valor from anything aside from T12 should be capped at 420 and the cap should have stayed where it was in T11.

TLDR: Please stop Asking blizzard to make the game easier and get better.
Edited by Attilian on 7/18/2011 9:32 PM PDT
This topic is locked.

Please report any Code of Conduct violations, including:

Threats of violence. We take these seriously and will alert the proper authorities.

Posts containing personal information about other players. This includes physical addresses, e-mail addresses, phone numbers, and inappropriate photos and/or videos.

Harassing or discriminatory language. This will not be tolerated.

Forums Code of Conduct

Report Post # written by

Reason
Explain (256 characters max)
Submit Cancel

Reported!

[Close]