Tier 11 Valor Point Hotfix

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This is great. Our raiding guild has been raiding Firelands 3 nights a week and only has two bosses down, and having incentive to get the rest of us our 4-piece bonus is awesome. It's pretty silly that we were being discouraged from raiding to run the same two 5-mans instead because it was the only way to gear up. I hate doing ZA/ZG over and over.

I don't like that you can earn all your valor from pre-tier 12 either. I liked the tier 11 caps, where you could earn extra valor if you were raiding the current tier. There's such a thing as catering TOO much to people who don't raid too.
07/19/2011 12:30 AMPosted by Tartlet
This is great. Our raiding guild has been raiding Firelands 3 nights a week and only has two bosses down, and having incentive to get the rest of us our 4-piece bonus is awesome.


Exactly my case, except it's two nights per week of firelands with a single night of BWD/BoT (having to pug 3-4 members). I myself was available, but had to resort to spamming ZA/ZG.

And for all of you elitists, or those fortunate enough to have an open schedule. If you weren't one of the people who had to run ZA/ZG at least 5 times per week, you don't even have the right to post in this topic.

Valor points, and Frost/Triumph/Justice emblems before it were always something you just had to get done every week. It's not the same as progressing through a raid. It's just a means to make raiding become progressively easier, and thus offer more progression to less skilled and/or less available raiders.

PS: Does this mean less incentive to do Heroic T11 for the guilds who previously didn't have an issue clearing heroics? I don't think it would. Why would you be mad about it?
Edited by Kashdollars on 7/19/2011 12:36 AM PDT
85 Night Elf Death Knight
2270
Considering Pugs where not happening in these raids because whats the point. Now there is a point. Thank you so much. Now my all geared out minus raid gear alts will get to roll in raids. I thank you 100%.
93 Blood Elf Priest
15315
Technically the way Valor is acquired through heroics hasn't changed since 4.1. The difference was that Blizzard brought the cap down to just what was filled with Heroics, and took away the portion that could only be filled be raids. That was the big mistake here.

Also think about the old cap. There were 13-14 bosses rewarding 70-90 points each. Most of the raids weren't that hard, so people were able to get 700-800+ Valor from raids easily. This meant you only had to fill the gap with a heroic run or two. It was always very possible for a PuG group to kill half those bosses and get Valor that way. However, the problem now is the lower Valor cap and limited options to get Valor from raids. Most guilds that cleared Tier 11 are doing fine in Firelands and reaching the cap without having to spam heroics. The people with multiple characters or in guilds that aren't quite able to do the execution based Firelands fights are the ones having the main issues. Their only option is to spam heroics to fill the gap they're missing, since Firelands isn't PuG friendly unless you have people that have a decent idea of what they are doing.

Anyways, its a matter of perspective. With the extra part of the cap that could only be filled by raids, and more bosses, people didn't feel like Heroics were their only option. But now with that extra bit gone, and cap being filled by 10 heroics or 5 and the raid bosses a given person can kill. People feel like their forced to run heroics until their fingers bleed to get the items they want.
85 Tauren Paladin
7200
07/18/2011 08:54 PMPosted by Xarí
if you cant do it then maybe you should really play a different game, go play runescape or something.complaining that you cant vp cap each week is seriously a joke. when they first introduced the valor and justice point system it use to be the only way to get it is the fact that you got it from raids only and your 1 daily heroic each day. they have now given you the option to troll random or heroic random 7 times for VP repeatedly in 1 day, you can litterally VP cap in 1 day of game play, they have already given you this and you still complain? and blizzard really? you give in that crying? and here you guys sit on your offices and you cant understand why you have lost over 65,000 subscribers that one month? i mean really?


Just to restate the obvious here. Many people (including myself) have jobs (sometimes more than one), families, and other meaningful obligations in our daily lives. These things tend to result in a busy schedule. When we play a game to relax, we want to do something fun. Spamming the same heroic multiple times every week just to get VP (it was the only way til this) is ridiculous. I could understand the complaint about how "VP should be more for raiders and less for casuals, you need to earn it!" if the 5-man instances (which are, by the way, a joke, even with moderately unskilled pugs) didn't already award the points. Blizzard adding another way to get the points that is HARDER than the heroics does nothing more than add variety to the already-in-place system of VP grinding for non-raiders or for raiders who don't clear all the content every week. This early on, most raiding guilds haven't cleared every boss. Yeah, my guild has, but for somebody like me who enjoys raiding but is trying to start up a second 10-man group, not having to grind one of 2 heroics over and over is a godsend. Plus, it'll make the "casuals" some of you so hate practice raid mechanics. Imagine that!
I just wanted to take a break from debating your fees on another thread and thank you for listening to the community on this one. Hopefully it will spill over to other issues :)

This is great for me because I am so far behind. Not to mention it keeps content useful after a new patch has come out.

Good move.

People who complain about gear becoming easier to get for other players are just mad because they place more importance in being better geared then the next guy instead of personal achievement and content itself. Kill dates and notable achievements from past tiers seem to be better to hang your hat on...not who has what gear compared to you at this time.
Edited by Calldrick on 7/19/2011 1:10 AM PDT
85 Blood Elf Paladin
11405
Great now we have to kill a T11 boss 21 times to cap...o wait. This does not solve the problem for thoes of us who dont raid or are limited to casually killing afew guys in T12. Would it be so bad to add regular heroics to give 140? For the most part lots of them take the same time to clear as a ZA/ZG

I for one am already sick of ZG/ZA with 23+ clears each. Adding the other heroics to give the same amount would give some welcome variety to thoes that cap through ZA/ZG
85 Tauren Druid
5530
Peoples always complain about Blizzard, but this post shows that we are heard and considered if something appear to be wrong to us.

Thank you for this change, very wise move.

Great now we have to kill a T11 boss 21 times to cap...o wait. This does not solve the problem for thoes of us who dont raid or are limited to casually killing afew guys in T12. Would it be so bad to add regular heroics to give 140? For the most part lots of them take the same time to clear as a ZA/ZG

I for one am already sick of ZG/ZA with 23+ clears each. Adding the other heroics to give the same amount would give some welcome variety to thoes that cap through ZA/ZG


And so you would want raiding gear to be accessible for non-raiding peoples?
Truth is the following : content is new and peoples will have to LEARN how to down it and because I have done a fairly good part of it, I think I am allowed to tell how easy it is. That is only a matter of time before peoples get how to beat every boss and at the end.. or maybe even middle-release peoples will have cleared it.

Also, I don't think it is a matter of gear for success in Firelands but more like how organized you are. First cata raids were WAY HARDER with heroic blue gear than Fireland is with T11 and this fact, I believe, makes the gear point invalid.
Edited by Sacajawea on 7/19/2011 1:36 AM PDT
Community Manager
Congratulations guys.

Maybe next week you can have them send you Tier 13 directly to your mailbox.


I'm not sure if this is common knowledge, but only a few slots are actually available to purchase with VP, and not in fact entire tier sets.
07/19/2011 01:16 AMPosted by Evirus
People who complain about gear becoming easier to get for other players are just mad because they place more importance in being better geared then the next guy instead of personal achievement and content itself. Kill dates and notable achievements from past tiers seem to be better to hang your hat on...not who has what gear compared to you at this time.


And people who whine to have gear handed to them are only jealous of the people who already have the gear and have the ability to get the gear the way it was meant to be earned.

They place more importance on sitting around watching TV while the game plays itself and they tend to think that the name of the game should be changed to World of Farmvillecraft.


You just proved my point. You are just mad because you are not as far ahead of other players in regards to gear as you were before...this change affects you in no other way.
90 Undead Mage
4930
Congratulations guys.

Maybe next week you can have them send you Tier 13 directly to your mailbox.


I'm not sure if this is common knowledge, but only a few slots are actually available to purchase with VP, and not in fact entire tier sets.

Still, the point is you will allow people who have never set foot in Firelands to overgear the content, when the fights are tuned for people in T 11 gear, in particular the early bosses.
90 Human Warrior
9085
I like this change.

Even though I'm only missing a couple pieces, mostly from nefarian, and I really don't need tier 11 gear, it still is nice to change it up.

I personally preferred to raid over heroics any day. Someone mentioned BC farming Kara for the entire expansion?

Yeah, that sucked. But it was more fun than doing one of the 7 or so heroics we had to pick from that we had run over 20 times a piece just to gear-up to get into Kara. (Pre nerfs).

My guilds half clearing Firelands, and this change, although I might not take up the puggable tier 11 raids to clear the stale aspect of troll farming, it's still nice to have an option on the table.

Though, honestly, I agree with a lot of the people here. Trolls shouldn't give so much VP, or the cap (of 980) should be soft capped at somewhere in the seven hundreds, forcing you to kill 1 boss in firelands. (Shannox, which is easy for most people. Even pugs. Wowprogress lists something like 95% of guilds they're tracking has killed him.)

Slow down the non-raiders gear progression/reduce the necessity of farming heroics until your guild full-clears firelands.
85 Worgen Druid
14000
Congratulations guys.

Maybe next week you can have them send you Tier 13 directly to your mailbox.


I'm not sure if this is common knowledge, but only a few slots are actually available to purchase with VP, and not in fact entire tier sets.


Let the casuals get all of their tier, most guilds and alt runs were 7/7 the first week anyhow. I just ask you up the VP cap back to what it was initially.
Community Manager
07/19/2011 01:49 AMPosted by Gariss
Still, the point is you will allow people who have never set foot in Firelands to overgear the content, when the fights are tuned for people in T 11 gear, in particular the early bosses.


Overgear the content with a few valor items? Come on now.

No matter what anyone wants to think about ilvl or what a few set pieces can offer, people aren't going to equip some valor boots and suddenly start rolling over bosses.
100 Blood Elf Paladin
17650
Not entirely sure how people believe this will make gear easier to get through valor than it already is, if you're in a halfway decent guild you'll be capping every week anyway either through troll instances/fl bosses/ or now the tier 11 ones this changes nothing for them other than thats 3 less troll heroics per week if you full clear tier 11.

This helps people that may not want to put in the effort to either do firelands or troll instances and want to possibly get into raid pugs that may clear the raid or maybe just a few bosses. Valor was easy enough to get when 4.1 came out giving people so many chances to get it why are some people just so elitist to think it's not ok for there to be more chances for lesser geared/skilled players to possibly hit their cap for the week.
Not entirely sure how people believe this will make gear easier to get through valor than it already is, if you're in a halfway decent guild you'll be capping every week anyway either through troll instances/fl bosses/ or now the tier 11 ones this changes nothing for them other than thats 3 less troll heroics per week if you full clear tier 11.

This helps people that may not want to put in the effort to either do firelands or troll instances and want to possibly get into raid pugs that may clear the raid or maybe just a few bosses. Valor was easy enough to get when 4.1 came out giving people so many chances to get it why are some people just so elitist to think it's not ok for there to be more chances for lesser geared/skilled players to possibly hit their cap for the week.


TY People just want to be able to look at other players and feel better about themselves. Way too much importance in gear...not enough in playing the game.
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