More BG's pl0x

85 Night Elf Druid
1290
Seriously, Random bg's suck...
And remaking WSG and AB doesn't help..
Reply Quote
85 Undead Rogue
0
07/19/2011 05:23 PMPosted by Nightmän
And remaking WSG and AB doesn't help..


Last time they came up with new ideas we got SotA and IoC.
Reply Quote
85 Night Elf Druid
1290
They should be more creative, they have plenty of money and time to do something like that.
Reply Quote
100 Undead Warrior
8040
07/19/2011 05:30 PMPosted by Huygens
Last time they came up with new ideas we got SotA and IoC.


I think the new maps are fine :P quite fun actually.
Reply Quote
85 Undead Rogue
0
07/19/2011 05:49 PMPosted by Perdition
Last time they came up with new ideas we got SotA and IoC.


I think the new maps are fine :P quite fun actually.


Some people are into PvWall I guess.
Reply Quote
85 Tauren Hunter
1500
PvDemo

See? I'd be more fun if you did that
Reply Quote
Community Manager
07/19/2011 05:41 PMPosted by Nightmän
They should be more creative, they have plenty of money and time to do something like that.


We’d like to. We certainly haven't forgotten about the PvP community at all and we do a lot of PvP oriented behind the scenes work right now. While not very much of that effort is channeled into creating new maps at the moment, we would definitely like to increase the variety of Battleground and Arena maps that are available in the future. That's where things get sticky, though. One might think that creating a Battleground is a pretty simple process (they look simple, right?), but it's not.

Part of the reason is that Battlegrounds are like ducks. A duck looks like it effortlessly glides across the water, but their little feet are actually working madly beneath the surface to make it happen. Battlegrounds are the same way. They may look simple -- even static -- to a casual observer, but in reality there's an incredible number of very complicated processes going on behind the scenes. Part of the reason for this is due to a lot of technical hurdles that need to be jumped to make them perform as seamlessly as they do, battle after battle. As a result, it's actually extremely difficult to design Battlegrounds, partially due to the technical limitations that are currently in place.

The other part of the reason is that Battlegrounds (and Arena maps, for that matter) require a higher degree of polish than a PvE map does. If a bit of geometry causes you to hang up, or blocks line of sight in a dungeon or raid, then in the majority of circumstances you can probably just work around it until it's fixed. If the same flaw exists in a bg or arena map, then that imperfection might be exploited for an unfair advantage, which runs contrary to the spirit of fair competition we want in that kind of PvP. We know that a lot of the PvP community is ultimately more interested in having perfectly balanced and bug-free maps to play on, than they necessarily are in having new maps to play on.

The other thing to keep in mind is that, while boss mechanics might differ from raid to raid, broadly speaking all dungeons and raids have the same rule set (that is, they have raid locks and you have to run back to the portal when you wipe and so on). BGs and Arenas tend to have highly individual rule sets. The result is that, in addition to the factors I’ve already mentioned, we also have to craft every BG essentially by hand every time. We’d like to develop a tool to create PvP maps in the same way we have a tool we can use to create bosses or a tool we can use to create items. Such a tool would let us create BGs and other PvP-oriented maps more readily. That's something that we're working toward now, but it's time consuming and exacting work, and still quite a ways off.

Still, ultimately we think all this effort will pay off, and we're confident that you'll feel the same way. In the meantime, there are still plenty of players of the opposing faction to send back to the Spirit Healer, and we hope you can continue to have fun making red dead wherever you find it.
Edited by Daxxarri on 7/20/2011 11:14 AM PDT
Reply Quote
90 Human Rogue
8490
07/19/2011 05:30 PMPosted by Huygens
And remaking WSG and AB doesn't help..


Last time they came up with new ideas we got SotA and IoC.


That's a damn good point.

No More BG's pl0x!
Reply Quote
43 Orc Shaman
380
Can't say I've ever thought about how you have to build the BGs from scratch. Thanks for the informative post!
Reply Quote
100 Dwarf Warrior
5050
07/20/2011 10:59 AMPosted by Daxxarri
They should be more creative, they have plenty of money and time to do something like that.


Part of the reason is that Battlegrounds are like ducks. A duck looks like it effortlessly glides across the water, but their little feet are actually working madly beneath the surface to make it happen. Battlegrounds are the same way. They may look simple -- even static -- to a casual observer, but in reality there's an incredible amount of very complicated things going on behind the scenes. Part of the reason for this is due to a lot of technical hurdles that need to be jumped to make them perform as seamlessly as they do, battle after battle. As a result, it's actually extremely difficult to design Battlegrounds, partially due to the technical limitations that are currently in place.



Yes. A simile to ducks. You sir, are win.
Reply Quote
85 Night Elf Druid
2685
I would be real happy if I could Queue up for a random, but exclude SoTA, AV, and IoC. There are too many people in those BG's and it just gets too choppy for my connection.
Reply Quote
1 Night Elf Priest
0
I am glad you are working to add new ones, but I hope you speed the process up.

It is disheartening as a PVPer (solely) to not get to see new content.

While the PVE groups in my guild were really excited about the last patch, there was nothing in it for PVPers.

I feel like I am missing out whenever you add a patch. If you are making a new firelands area, I would love to see a firelands themed map! I think you existing rulesets are fine (CTF, Base Control, etc.), but I would like to see some new scenery.

I really hope you can get this worked out soon, because despite the technical hurdles, it is disappointing that we are stuck with the same things while PVE get new stuff to look at every patch.
Reply Quote
1 Night Elf Priest
0
07/20/2011 11:04 AMPosted by Discoepfeand


Last time they came up with new ideas we got SotA and IoC.


That's a damn good point.

No More BG's pl0x!


I think this is part of the problem, it difficult to add in new objectives and rules without altering competitive balance.

With large portions of the PVP game focused on RBGs, the new BGs have to be designed with them in mind.

That means they are limited to 10mans.

WSG (TP) and AB (BoG) are perfectly balanced for RBGs.

I am fine with them adding similar maps, I am just looking for some variety.
Reply Quote
85 Blood Elf Warlock
0
07/20/2011 10:59 AMPosted by Daxxarri
We certainly haven't forgotten about the PvP community at all and we do a lot of PvP oriented behind the scenes work right now.


it's the PVE community that feels neglected when it comes to game play. You may not have made a new BG since cata started, but you did manage to mess up a lot of quality of life issues for warlocks.



07/20/2011 10:59 AMPosted by Daxxarri
The other part of the reason is that Battlegrounds (and Arena maps, for that matter) require a higher degree of polish than a PvE map does.


actually it would be nice if you polished your pve stuff better before release. The lack of attention to something as simple as pets disappearing in hyjal questlines, or the terrible AI with them in the new 'assist' stance just blows me away. How do things like that make it not only to the ptr, but out of the ptr and on live before being fixed? How long was 4.2 in development without anyone saying "Hey, did you notice Z's imp keeps disappearing when he tries to do dailies?"
Reply Quote
14 Tauren Druid
0


07/20/2011 10:59 AMPosted by Daxxarri
They should be more creative, they have plenty of money and time to do something like that.


We’d like to. We certainly haven't forgotten about the PvP community at all and we do a lot of PvP oriented behind the scenes work right now. While not very much of that effort is channeled into creating new maps at the moment, we would definitely like to increase the variety of Battleground and Arena maps that are available in the future. That's where things get sticky, though. One might think that creating a Battleground is a pretty simple process (they look simple, right?), but it's not.

Part of the reason is that Battlegrounds are like ducks. A duck looks like it effortlessly glides across the water, but their little feet are actually working madly beneath the surface to make it happen. Battlegrounds are the same way. They may look simple -- even static -- to a casual observer, but in reality there's an incredible number of very complicated processes going on behind the scenes. Part of the reason for this is due to a lot of technical hurdles that need to be jumped to make them perform as seamlessly as they do, battle after battle. As a result, it's actually extremely difficult to design Battlegrounds, partially due to the technical limitations that are currently in place.

The other part of the reason is that Battlegrounds (and Arena maps, for that matter) require a higher degree of polish than a PvE map does. If a bit of geometry causes you to hang up, or blocks line of sight in a dungeon or raid, then in the majority of circumstances you can probably just work around it until it's fixed. If the same flaw exists in a bg or arena map, then that imperfection might be exploited for an unfair advantage, which runs contrary to the spirit of fair competition we want in that kind of PvP. We know that a lot of the PvP community is ultimately more interested in having perfectly balanced and bug-free maps to play on, than they necessarily are in having new maps to play on.

The other thing to keep in mind is that, while boss mechanics might differ from raid to raid, broadly speaking all dungeons and raids have the same rule set (that is, they have raid locks and you have to run back to the portal when you wipe and so on). BGs and Arenas tend to have highly individual rule sets. The result is that, in addition to the factors I’ve already mentioned, we also have to craft every BG essentially by hand every time. We’d like to develop a tool to create PvP maps in the same way we have a tool we can use to create bosses or a tool we can use to create items. Such a tool would let us create BGs and other PvP-oriented maps more readily. That's something that we're working toward now, but it's time consuming and exacting work, and still quite a ways off.

Still, ultimately we think all this effort will pay off, and we're confident that you'll feel the same way. In the meantime, there are still plenty of players of the opposing faction to send back to the Spirit Healer, and we hope you can continue to have fun making red dead wherever you find it.


The ducks reference was simply awesome, great post!
Reply Quote
90 Blood Elf Mage
8020
It would be nice if the new PvP maps weren't a variation of capture the flag. Might even be nice to see a simple map for BG's where the entire focus was just an epic battle between players with the winning side is the one with the most kills at the end of say 10 mins. No capture the flag, collect resources, or any goal other than face planting the enemy for 10 mins.

There are tons of ideas out there that can be simple, fun and easily balanced.
Reply Quote

Please report any Code of Conduct violations, including:

Threats of violence. We take these seriously and will alert the proper authorities.

Posts containing personal information about other players. This includes physical addresses, e-mail addresses, phone numbers, and inappropriate photos and/or videos.

Harassing or discriminatory language. This will not be tolerated.

Forums Code of Conduct

Report Post # written by

Reason
Explain (256 characters max)
Submit Cancel

Reported!

[Close]