More BG's pl0x

12 Goblin Priest
40
There was an idea awhile back. Make a BG that counts the number of healers that got in through the random queue, the team with the most healers wins. It would certainly streamline those games where the opposing team is 50% healers or more rather than have them run the full duration every time.
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85 Human Rogue
2370
It would be nice if the new PvP maps weren't a variation of capture the flag. Might even be nice to see a simple map for BG's where the entire focus was just an epic battle between players with the winning side is the one with the most kills at the end of say 10 mins. No capture the flag, collect resources, or any goal other than face planting the enemy for 10 mins.

There are tons of ideas out there that can be simple, fun and easily balanced.


I agree! Why not a 'slayer' bg type?

I defend nodes, but to be honest, it gets boring sitting there doing nothing save for the attack on the node here and there.
Edited by Houdinì on 7/20/2011 11:45 AM PDT
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85 Worgen Mage
6460
07/20/2011 10:59 AMPosted by Daxxarri
The other part of the reason is that Battlegrounds (and Arena maps, for that matter) require a higher degree of polish than a PvE map does. If a bit of geometry causes you to hang up, or blocks line of sight in a dungeon or raid, then in the majority of circumstances you can probably just work around it until it's fixed. If the same flaw exists in a bg or arena map, then that imperfection might be exploited for an unfair advantage, which runs contrary to the spirit of fair competition we want in that kind of PvP. We know that a lot of the PvP community is ultimately more interested in having perfectly balanced and bug-free maps to play on, than they necessarily are in having new maps to play on.


Except that the terrain bug exploits or "jumps" in Warsong have existed for years. Countless tickets have been submitted on them, with responses from GM's varying from "working as intended" to "we'll investigate".

It's a far more likely explanation that you simply have no one addressing these issues, and it may be due to the red tape that exists within Blizzard causing problems like this to get lost in the veritable quagmire of tickets.

Nice try though Daxxarri. I especially liked the comparison of battlegrounds to ducks. Too bad the new forums don't have signatures, I'd add that in a second.
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So if a duck floats the same as wood floats and a piece of wood can burn, so isn't it obvious that Blizzard is a Witch?
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90 Human Paladin
0
Longest excuse I've ever heard.
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90 Blood Elf Paladin
8680
07/20/2011 10:59 AMPosted by Daxxarri
while boss mechanics might differ from raid to raid, broadly speaking all dungeons and raids have the same rule set (that is, they have raid locks and you have to run back to the portal when you wipe and so on)


Isn't that interesting?
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85 Dwarf Shaman
4195
You can add 10+ new 5-mans and several raids in each expansion, but adding in more than 2 new BGs is way toocomplex and problematic? Sorry, but I call BS.

The real reason you don't add in more BGs is because there's little desire on your part to do so. If PvP wasn't an afterthought for Blizzard you might actually have a higher percentage of the player base interested in it.
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07/20/2011 10:59 AMPosted by Daxxarri
They should be more creative, they have plenty of money and time to do something like that.



They may look simple -- even static -- to a casual observer, but in reality there's an incredible number of very complicated processes going on behind the scenes.


You are obviously a casual player, Daxxarri
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You can add 10+ new 5-mans and several raids in each expansion, but adding in more than 2 new BGs is way toocomplex and problematic? Sorry, but I call BS.

The real reason you don't add in more BGs is because there's little desire on your part to do so. If PvP wasn't an afterthought for Blizzard you might actually have a higher percentage of the player base interested in it.


Yes, Trebia, it isn't because they are so diversified in many directions for their mmo, it is because they don't like you and they deny anyone who tells them people like killing others in their game.

You probably have more than enough honor to buy that tinfoil hat with resilience now.
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85 Blood Elf Death Knight
2165
It would be nice if the new PvP maps weren't a variation of capture the flag. Might even be nice to see a simple map for BG's where the entire focus was just an epic battle between players with the winning side is the one with the most kills at the end of say 10 mins. No capture the flag, collect resources, or any goal other than face planting the enemy for 10 mins.

There are tons of ideas out there that can be simple, fun and easily balanced.


This would be the best map ever. Take a page right of warhammer online. Each player is worth say x amount of points. Both sides start out at x amount of points. Each time a enemy player is killed, that reduces their score by x amount of points. First team to reach 0 loses.
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85 Tauren Druid
5935
never liked bgs to be honest. I'd still rather just have everyone interested meet up in Hillsbrad and duke it out, totally unstructured.

I hear all this talk that BGs are hard to make ect.. but then when you make battle for gilneaos, you didn't even bother to change the names from "the mine". Eventually it was changed but it was obvious that it was just cut and pasted. Sure it was just an "oversight" but what do you think it looks like from our end? Otherwise your explanation of why it was harder to make does make sense. Although, that is more a reflection on a playerbase that looks to exploit everything they possibly can, than it is a reflection on your designs.

In trying to think of new BG designs, I got to thinking about playing paintball and the scenarios we have at my local field. I know it sounds like Helm's Deep but hear me out. Why not have a BG where one side (either horde or alliance) are held up inside of a keep or an area with a few different ways to get in (think WSG turtling but not lame). I guess kind of like Wintergrasp, but im thinking of something different than that too. It's hard to explain. Wintergrasp strategy focused so much on capturing of things outside of the fortress and doing everything outside with the vehicles. I can't speak for everyone but I am kind of sick of vehicles. Make a BG where a defensive team will want to stay in the fort and use different strats and techniques to keep people from getting in. Go watch the second lord of the rings, like that. In paintball we play swat vs. terrorist, the Ts are all held up in the back of our converted grocery store, and there are 3 entrances with varying angles and obstacles. The swat guys try to get in and mark all the ts. It's simple I know, but it's a lot of fun

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Anyone else be fine with WSG or AB with just different map nuances? Don't need different objectives, just new places to explore and learn to fight in (and grief people in).
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85 Dwarf Shaman
4195
You can add 10+ new 5-mans and several raids in each expansion, but adding in more than 2 new BGs is way toocomplex and problematic? Sorry, but I call BS.

The real reason you don't add in more BGs is because there's little desire on your part to do so. If PvP wasn't an afterthought for Blizzard you might actually have a higher percentage of the player base interested in it.


Yes, Trebia, it isn't because they are so diversified in many directions for their mmo, it is because they don't like you and they deny anyone who tells them people like killing others in their game.

You probably have more than enough honor to buy that tinfoil hat with resilience now.


2/10 because I love a good tinfoil hat.
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Oooh, a CTF in BRD. Not symmetrical... but fair in that horde and alliance spawn points/bases are random.

Or BRD with five nodes works.
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85 Human Rogue
11630


Still, ultimately we think all this effort will pay off, and we're confident that you'll feel the same way. In the meantime, there are still plenty of players of the opposing faction to send back to the Spirit Healer, and we hope you can continue to have fun making red dead wherever you find it.


Yep, WoW is the test site for Titan. :)


O well, Titan is going to rock!
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85 Draenei Mage
6850
They should be more creative, they have plenty of money and time to do something like that.


We’d like to. We certainly haven't forgotten about the PvP community at all and we do a lot of PvP oriented behind the scenes work right now. While not very much of that effort is channeled into creating new maps at the moment, we would definitely like to increase the variety of Battleground and Arena maps that are available in the future. That's where things get sticky, though. One might think that creating a Battleground is a pretty simple process (they look simple, right?), but it's not.

Part of the reason is that Battlegrounds are like ducks. A duck looks like it effortlessly glides across the water, but their little feet are actually working madly beneath the surface to make it happen. Battlegrounds are the same way. They may look simple -- even static -- to a casual observer, but in reality there's an incredible number of very complicated processes going on behind the scenes. Part of the reason for this is due to a lot of technical hurdles that need to be jumped to make them perform as seamlessly as they do, battle after battle. As a result, it's actually extremely difficult to design Battlegrounds, partially due to the technical limitations that are currently in place.

The other part of the reason is that Battlegrounds (and Arena maps, for that matter) require a higher degree of polish than a PvE map does. If a bit of geometry causes you to hang up, or blocks line of sight in a dungeon or raid, then in the majority of circumstances you can probably just work around it until it's fixed. If the same flaw exists in a bg or arena map, then that imperfection might be exploited for an unfair advantage, which runs contrary to the spirit of fair competition we want in that kind of PvP. We know that a lot of the PvP community is ultimately more interested in having perfectly balanced and bug-free maps to play on, than they necessarily are in having new maps to play on.

The other thing to keep in mind is that, while boss mechanics might differ from raid to raid, broadly speaking all dungeons and raids have the same rule set (that is, they have raid locks and you have to run back to the portal when you wipe and so on). BGs and Arenas tend to have highly individual rule sets. The result is that, in addition to the factors I’ve already mentioned, we also have to craft every BG essentially by hand every time. We’d like to develop a tool to create PvP maps in the same way we have a tool we can use to create bosses or a tool we can use to create items. Such a tool would let us create BGs and other PvP-oriented maps more readily. That's something that we're working toward now, but it's time consuming and exacting work, and still quite a ways off.

Still, ultimately we think all this effort will pay off, and we're confident that you'll feel the same way. In the meantime, there are still plenty of players of the opposing faction to send back to the Spirit Healer, and we hope you can continue to have fun making red dead wherever you find it.


What you seem to lack in your development team is PVP gameplay designers. You have a lot of very good PVE game designers because each boss encounter in itself is like its own complex game system.

Could you imagine if you had that same team design PVP maps like you had them design PVE boss fights?

Imagine a PVP map where you have a free for all 2v2v2v2v2. You have a location on the map with a powerup that provides your team points if you kill others with it. There are 2 other locations where if you control them you gather points over time like Arathi Basin. Add a bunch of line of sight objects around the map and you got a really fun PVP environment. You could even award conquest points to people for having fun insetad of "working" on thier "ratings".

And this idea was thought up on the spot. I can come up with hundreds more....
Edited by Aroki on 7/20/2011 12:51 PM PDT
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85 Blood Elf Warlock
0
What you seem to lack in your development team is PVP gameplay designers. You have a lot of very good PVE game designers because each boss encounter in itself is like its own complex game system.

Could you imagine if you had that same team design PVP maps like you had them design PVE boss fights?


I would gladly trade you the pve designers for the pvp ones right now. You would get the 'creativity' you want, and hopefully we wouldn't keep getting missing pets on broken quests.
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