More BG's pl0x

90 Dwarf Priest
13165
lets not worry about new battles grounds lets fix the play of the ones we have, many people take there BG's serious well feed, flasked gem'd and chanted. should bg's be the place where people go to afk lvl? maybe there should be quest lines to follow to get bg ready gear and give players understanding of the bg there in. lets put a disconnect to keep ( follow bots) players that latch to you in bg and afk. why should PVP be easy? make it harder to attend. we have gear lvl score for dungeons and quest lines to follow to get in them. I like my PVP, and im not no where near the best but i know how to win a game, and have taken time to read about the battle and the point of the battle. while it's nice to fall into a random achievement, theres some who read up and focus on these achiev's. should you drive a demo?=quest line. should you run a flag?=quest line. i've been playing awhile and remember the hoops to jump thru to attend a lvl 60 raid being attuned etc....and more and more WOW is becoming more convienent to the lazy player.
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90 Blood Elf Priest
17055
A plain flat open battleground with mellow lighting and a cool breeze. No grass, no trees, no friggin ramps and bridges and crypts to jump on. Nothing in the way to get stuck on, nothing to hide behind, no weirdass water gushing out (excuse me, we're in a sewer! ewww dirty).

Just you and your partner(s) facing your opponents with only your wits and keybinds and whatever the hell you managed to buy with your hard-earned honor.

Classic, simple, quick live or die fights with no obstruction, no excuses.

Dooo it.

(oh oh, it can be a good sized floating island like in Outland. Kill or survive, fall off and die - shaman knockback whammy would be denied there.)

Edited by Vixie on 7/20/2011 1:05 PM PDT
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They should be more creative, they have plenty of money and time to do something like that.


We’d like to. We certainly haven't forgotten about the PvP community at all and we do a lot of PvP oriented behind the scenes work right now. While not very much of that effort is channeled into creating new maps at the moment, we would definitely like to increase the variety of Battleground and Arena maps that are available in the future. That's where things get sticky, though. One might think that creating a Battleground is a pretty simple process (they look simple, right?), but it's not.

Part of the reason is that Battlegrounds are like ducks. A duck looks like it effortlessly glides across the water, but their little feet are actually working madly beneath the surface to make it happen. Battlegrounds are the same way. They may look simple -- even static -- to a casual observer, but in reality there's an incredible number of very complicated processes going on behind the scenes. Part of the reason for this is due to a lot of technical hurdles that need to be jumped to make them perform as seamlessly as they do, battle after battle. As a result, it's actually extremely difficult to design Battlegrounds, partially due to the technical limitations that are currently in place.

The other part of the reason is that Battlegrounds (and Arena maps, for that matter) require a higher degree of polish than a PvE map does. If a bit of geometry causes you to hang up, or blocks line of sight in a dungeon or raid, then in the majority of circumstances you can probably just work around it until it's fixed. If the same flaw exists in a bg or arena map, then that imperfection might be exploited for an unfair advantage, which runs contrary to the spirit of fair competition we want in that kind of PvP. We know that a lot of the PvP community is ultimately more interested in having perfectly balanced and bug-free maps to play on, than they necessarily are in having new maps to play on.

The other thing to keep in mind is that, while boss mechanics might differ from raid to raid, broadly speaking all dungeons and raids have the same rule set (that is, they have raid locks and you have to run back to the portal when you wipe and so on). BGs and Arenas tend to have highly individual rule sets. The result is that, in addition to the factors I’ve already mentioned, we also have to craft every BG essentially by hand every time. We’d like to develop a tool to create PvP maps in the same way we have a tool we can use to create bosses or a tool we can use to create items. Such a tool would let us create BGs and other PvP-oriented maps more readily. That's something that we're working toward now, but it's time consuming and exacting work, and still quite a ways off.

Still, ultimately we think all this effort will pay off, and we're confident that you'll feel the same way. In the meantime, there are still plenty of players of the opposing faction to send back to the Spirit Healer, and we hope you can continue to have fun making red dead wherever you find it.

On a side note: remember the mass summon exploit with TB? Would be nice to see a BG that incorporates a similar functionality through a waygate somewhere on the map. Probably about where the flag is in eye of the storm, allowing you to send reinforcements to a base already under your control- but having the waygate itself as hard to defend.
Edited by Horavus on 7/20/2011 1:28 PM PDT
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85 Draenei Mage
6850
Or how about this...

TAG
Free for All. Open map. Everyone is targetable.

One person is IT and has to get rid of IT as soon as possible. The longer you are IT the more damage you deal and more points you lose. Killing the player that is IT makes you become IT so you don't want to do that. The only way to get rid of IT if you are IT is to kill someone, then he becomes IT.

So the object of the game is to kill each other and stay away from IT. :)
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Or how about this...

TAG
Free for All. Open map. Everyone is targetable.

One person is IT and has to get rid of IT as soon as possible. The longer you are IT the more damage you deal and more points you lose. Killing the player that is IT makes you become IT so you don't want to do that. The only way to get rid of IT if you are IT is to kill someone, then he becomes IT.

So the object of the game is to kill each other and stay away from IT. :)


Go go instant root spam on people near IT
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90 Undead Warrior
10190
IMO, what the game needs is a revamped Alterac Valley. Something that has a longer time commitment (about an hour is good), with interesting side objectives, and not just a base-race. The capture point games (EotS,AB,etc) are good for ensuring a robust conflict around an objective, but there's only so many variations on that theme that you can do before it gets repetitive.

IMO, both IoQ and SotA are both failures. They're base races, much like AV has been reduced to, to the effect that you don't actually get much battle, just lots of running to objectives from spawn points and graveyards.
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85 Draenei Mage
6850
If I were to redesign AV I would force one faction to play defense and the other faction play offense.

Think of a stronghold in the middle of the map. Defense spawns inside the stronghold and offense spawns in 4 random graveyards around the stronghold.

The defense has to protect the stronghold with 4 entry points. Each entry point into the fortress is an arena sized tower with 4 pillars and a flag in the middle. The flag has to be contested until it is controlled, once it is controlled a gate opens into the center of the fortress.

At the center of the fortress there is the General.

Think of an NPC that fires fireballs at random players from the offensive team and has no aggro table so that no tanks are necessary. The fireballs that he shoots travel in the air until they land on the ground. Before the fireballs land, there is a marker on the ground for a few seconds showing the point of impact and giving time for players to move out of the way. Another mechanic is a jet of flame that he shoots in a line in front of him and slowly moves in a 360 degree fashion forcing everyone to move. The fireballs and jet of flame can damage and kill members of the defensive team. The NPC cannot be healed and must be killed by the offensive team before the timer runs out. If not, the defence wins.
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85 Human Paladin
5655
07/20/2011 10:59 AMPosted by Daxxarri
Battlegrounds are like ducks


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90 Tauren Druid
8160
Daxxari, I hear all the time from my PVE community. "PVP do not matter their a mini game." "I hate PVP'rs because they screw the game up for us, the ones that are really playing the game."

Maybe PVP is an after thought for Blizz. However it is important to the PVP community. I am sorry that they feel were disrupting their gaming lifestyle. Which brings me to something else.

We have PVP servers. Why has Blizzard not done more to promote World PVP strictly on those servers. I am sure there is a way to categorize them on their own. I choose to play on a PVP realm because well...I love PVP. I do not want my PVP world sugar coated as it seems it has became.

And if Blizz has no plans in making PVP a bigger part of World of Warcraft. Can you atleast give me a closet much like what I keep my mounts and companions in. I am tired of hauling around an RP set, PVP set, 3 PVE sets. A closet would help. Please and thank you. I would forgive all harm that I feel you have ever implemented upon my pvp pass time if I had a place to put all my clothes :) A girls gotta have her wardrobe :D
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85 Blood Elf Paladin
11405
They should be more creative, they have plenty of money and time to do something like that.


We’d like to. We certainly haven't forgotten about the PvP community at all and we do a lot of PvP oriented behind the scenes work right now. While not very much of that effort is channeled into creating new maps at the moment, we would definitely like to increase the variety of Battleground and Arena maps that are available in the future. That's where things get sticky, though. One might think that creating a Battleground is a pretty simple process (they look simple, right?), but it's not.

Part of the reason is that Battlegrounds are like ducks. A duck looks like it effortlessly glides across the water, but their little feet are actually working madly beneath the surface to make it happen. Battlegrounds are the same way. They may look simple -- even static -- to a casual observer, but in reality there's an incredible number of very complicated processes going on behind the scenes. Part of the reason for this is due to a lot of technical hurdles that need to be jumped to make them perform as seamlessly as they do, battle after battle. As a result, it's actually extremely difficult to design Battlegrounds, partially due to the technical limitations that are currently in place.

The other part of the reason is that Battlegrounds (and Arena maps, for that matter) require a higher degree of polish than a PvE map does. If a bit of geometry causes you to hang up, or blocks line of sight in a dungeon or raid, then in the majority of circumstances you can probably just work around it until it's fixed. If the same flaw exists in a bg or arena map, then that imperfection might be exploited for an unfair advantage, which runs contrary to the spirit of fair competition we want in that kind of PvP. We know that a lot of the PvP community is ultimately more interested in having perfectly balanced and bug-free maps to play on, than they necessarily are in having new maps to play on.

The other thing to keep in mind is that, while boss mechanics might differ from raid to raid, broadly speaking all dungeons and raids have the same rule set (that is, they have raid locks and you have to run back to the portal when you wipe and so on). BGs and Arenas tend to have highly individual rule sets. The result is that, in addition to the factors I’ve already mentioned, we also have to craft every BG essentially by hand every time. We’d like to develop a tool to create PvP maps in the same way we have a tool we can use to create bosses or a tool we can use to create items. Such a tool would let us create BGs and other PvP-oriented maps more readily. That's something that we're working toward now, but it's time consuming and exacting work, and still quite a ways off.

Still, ultimately we think all this effort will pay off, and we're confident that you'll feel the same way. In the meantime, there are still plenty of players of the opposing faction to send back to the Spirit Healer, and we hope you can continue to have fun making red dead wherever you find it.


From what I got from this you say PVP / BG's are hard to do, yet this is what people at blizzard do...make video games and content. I dont see why we get such little content compared to PVE.

Also not everyone likes the content you put out. Me and many others I know truely hate Strand, Isle and AV, which leads to /afk or just farting around untill its over. Please give us a option to remove 2-3 BG's from the randomness of random BG's. The same could be said for LFD.
Edited by Braxt on 7/20/2011 2:12 PM PDT
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90 Human Warlock
12355
I'll go ahead and take the opposite position; please don't make any more maps.

WSG is fine, AB is fine. I personally don't care for AV, but some people do. I think it's pretty safe to say that the majority of pvpers have liked the new maps that have come out since BC (Eots, strand, isle) much less than the original 3. The new cata maps are just remakes of wsg and ab, not sure what the point of having two of the same map is.

New content only makes sense if you graduate out of the previous content. In PvE once a new raid comes out the previous raid is more or less obsolete. Unless pvp is going to go in that direction there is no point in adding more maps; it would be much better to just improve the current maps (e: fix bugs, address balance issues, etc).
Edited by Embräce on 7/20/2011 2:29 PM PDT
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85 Blood Elf Rogue
4005
07/20/2011 10:59 AMPosted by Daxxarri
Battlegrounds are like ducks.
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85 Tauren Druid
5935
I'd second the motion to fix AV. When I started playing, before the age of the dinosaurs, those battles were epic. I would go in one, fight for an hour, go to my class, come home and rejoin the same AV. Epic defense, lots of tension, made it interesting. There isn't much tention anymore, rushing the leaders and skipping all the fun parts. That being said, when I go with my ragtag group of hooligans, we can usually win the game by simply taking 5-6 of us and just back capping.
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85 Troll Rogue
2610
07/20/2011 02:11 PMPosted by Braxt
Please give us a option to remove 2-3 BG's from the randomness of random BG's. The same could be said for LFD.


The bonus you get for queuing for a random BG or Dungeon is there precisely to encourage people to use this feature, so that BG and (especially) dungeon queues are shorter. The whole point is that you are 'paid' to sacrifice your preference to shorten queues. If they allowed you to customize the random queue, it would defeat the entire purpose of it.

More simply put: the bonus honor/justice points are a bribe to get you to do what you otherwise wouldn't do. It's not what you deserve by default, but are cheated out of if you don't like randoming.
Edited by Bosola on 7/20/2011 2:45 PM PDT
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90 Worgen Warrior
16540
07/20/2011 10:59 AMPosted by Daxxarri
They should be more creative, they have plenty of money and time to do something like that.
We’d like to develop a tool to create PvP maps in the same way we have a tool we can use to create bosses or a tool we can use to create items. Such a tool would let us create BGs and other PvP-oriented maps more readily. That's something that we're working toward now, but it's time consuming and exacting work, and still quite a ways off.

Still, ultimately we think all this effort will pay off, and we're confident that you'll feel the same way. In the meantime, there are still plenty of players of the opposing faction to send back to the Spirit Healer, and we hope you can continue to have fun making red dead wherever you find it.

This is pretty huge news.

Flexible "map" generation is common in gaming (although not in MMOs specifically). It's clear that WoW was not designed with a dynamic system in place. I think people generally understand why it's so hard to pump out new BGs in the context of this game ... they just don't care. They've been spoiled elsewhere and they want that feature here.

If you could pull this off for the next xpac, I'd be impressed.
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Community Manager
07/20/2011 03:37 PMPosted by Sunae
Battlegrounds are like ducks.


My plan...

It's working.
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