More BG's pl0x

95 Night Elf Hunter
5685
It would be nice if the new PvP maps weren't a variation of capture the flag. Might even be nice to see a simple map for BG's where the entire focus was just an epic battle between players with the winning side is the one with the most kills at the end of say 10 mins. No capture the flag, collect resources, or any goal other than face planting the enemy for 10 mins.


This is one of the better idea's I have heard of on this forum yet.
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100 Dwarf Paladin
8530
07/20/2011 10:59 AMPosted by Daxxarri
They should be more creative, they have plenty of money and time to do something like that.


We’d like to. We certainly haven't forgotten about the PvP community at all and we do a lot of PvP oriented behind the scenes work right now. While not very much of that effort is channeled into creating new maps at the moment, we would definitely like to increase the variety of Battleground and Arena maps that are available in the future. That's where things get sticky, though. One might think that creating a Battleground is a pretty simple process (they look simple, right?), but it's not.

Part of the reason is that Battlegrounds are like ducks. A duck looks like it effortlessly glides across the water, but their little feet are actually working madly beneath the surface to make it happen. Battlegrounds are the same way. They may look simple -- even static -- to a casual observer, but in reality there's an incredible number of very complicated processes going on behind the scenes. Part of the reason for this is due to a lot of technical hurdles that need to be jumped to make them perform as seamlessly as they do, battle after battle. As a result, it's actually extremely difficult to design Battlegrounds, partially due to the technical limitations that are currently in place.

The other part of the reason is that Battlegrounds (and Arena maps, for that matter) require a higher degree of polish than a PvE map does. If a bit of geometry causes you to hang up, or blocks line of sight in a dungeon or raid, then in the majority of circumstances you can probably just work around it until it's fixed. If the same flaw exists in a bg or arena map, then that imperfection might be exploited for an unfair advantage, which runs contrary to the spirit of fair competition we want in that kind of PvP. We know that a lot of the PvP community is ultimately more interested in having perfectly balanced and bug-free maps to play on, than they necessarily are in having new maps to play on.

The other thing to keep in mind is that, while boss mechanics might differ from raid to raid, broadly speaking all dungeons and raids have the same rule set (that is, they have raid locks and you have to run back to the portal when you wipe and so on). BGs and Arenas tend to have highly individual rule sets. The result is that, in addition to the factors I’ve already mentioned, we also have to craft every BG essentially by hand every time. We’d like to develop a tool to create PvP maps in the same way we have a tool we can use to create bosses or a tool we can use to create items. Such a tool would let us create BGs and other PvP-oriented maps more readily. That's something that we're working toward now, but it's time consuming and exacting work, and still quite a ways off.

Still, ultimately we think all this effort will pay off, and we're confident that you'll feel the same way. In the meantime, there are still plenty of players of the opposing faction to send back to the Spirit Healer, and we hope you can continue to have fun making red dead wherever you find it.


This isn't exactly feasible until the problems with creating new BG maps are resolved, but is there a possibility that we could see something like game type groupings, with each game type getting a decent variety of maps? To use existing maps as an example you would have "Control Point" maps (AB/Gilneas), "Capture the Flag" maps (WSG/Twin Peaks), "Hybrid" (EotS). Maybe leave AV and Isle of Conquest as individual maps, although I'd personally like to see AV reworked into something other than a race to the NPCs or to rack up kills. Speaking as someone who hasn't done much PvP in a while, I'd be able to get more into it if I could queue for the type of game I feel like playing and experience a decent variety of maps in the process.
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100 Goblin Warrior
10605
07/19/2011 05:30 PMPosted by Huygens
And remaking WSG and AB doesn't help..


Last time they came up with new ideas we got SotA and IoC.


^ /End Thread Here!

But no really some more would be nice.... BLIZZARD MAKE A POLL or THREAD and ASK THE COMMUNITY FOR A GAME TYPE!
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85 Human Mage
6475
07/20/2011 10:59 AMPosted by Daxxarri
Battlegrounds are like ducks.

Suddenly it's all clear to me now!
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66 Dwarf Paladin
950
IMO they should just delete/take out of random que IoC/SotA seeing as how more than 90% of the PvP community hates them, sure don't make the devs time go to waste (even tho it turned out to be !@#$) and people who still like it can queue for it just put AB/WSG/AV and BoG/TP on different random ques. There's to many maps now days and 2 of them almost everyone hates it's like RoV for arena everyone but a few people actually like it due to bugs and other machines mechanics.
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Please remove the maps which aren't up to par.

I can understand the reasons for not churning out a whole bunch more, please, we do understand. On the other hand though, PvP could be greatly improved across the board by removing the bad maps. Please take the suggestion seriously.

Strand of the Ancients.
Isle of Conquest.

The others I personally can live with, i'd prefer maybe a few less but everyone surely would agree that those two maps are hideous. They make me /afk unless I desperately need honor.

As a consruction suggestion to add, how about trialing a Random Battleground selection process where the player selects five maps for possible play. If this was actioned i'd lay a wager that IoC and SotA would become ghostowns.
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90 Human Mage
5405
just because it looks like a duck, quacks like a duck, doesn't mean that it's a duck

in this case, it's more like a goose

but all that glitters is not golden, and it's the sheep that end up getting fleeced

bah rem ewe!


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85 Tauren Paladin
5135
Blizzard: LAWLZ PVP

I feel dirty typing out Lawl now. Going to wash away the nerdrage stink.
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41 Gnome Priest
310
07/20/2011 10:59 AMPosted by Daxxarri
They should be more creative, they have plenty of money and time to do something like that.


We’d like to. We certainly haven't forgotten about the PvP community at all and we do a lot of PvP oriented behind the scenes work right now. While not very much of that effort is channeled into creating new maps at the moment, we would definitely like to increase the variety of Battleground and Arena maps that are available in the future. That's where things get sticky, though. One might think that creating a Battleground is a pretty simple process (they look simple, right?), but it's not.

Part of the reason is that Battlegrounds are like ducks. A duck looks like it effortlessly glides across the water, but their little feet are actually working madly beneath the surface to make it happen. Battlegrounds are the same way. They may look simple -- even static -- to a casual observer, but in reality there's an incredible number of very complicated processes going on behind the scenes. Part of the reason for this is due to a lot of technical hurdles that need to be jumped to make them perform as seamlessly as they do, battle after battle. As a result, it's actually extremely difficult to design Battlegrounds, partially due to the technical limitations that are currently in place.

The other part of the reason is that Battlegrounds (and Arena maps, for that matter) require a higher degree of polish than a PvE map does. If a bit of geometry causes you to hang up, or blocks line of sight in a dungeon or raid, then in the majority of circumstances you can probably just work around it until it's fixed. If the same flaw exists in a bg or arena map, then that imperfection might be exploited for an unfair advantage, which runs contrary to the spirit of fair competition we want in that kind of PvP. We know that a lot of the PvP community is ultimately more interested in having perfectly balanced and bug-free maps to play on, than they necessarily are in having new maps to play on.

The other thing to keep in mind is that, while boss mechanics might differ from raid to raid, broadly speaking all dungeons and raids have the same rule set (that is, they have raid locks and you have to run back to the portal when you wipe and so on). BGs and Arenas tend to have highly individual rule sets. The result is that, in addition to the factors I’ve already mentioned, we also have to craft every BG essentially by hand every time. We’d like to develop a tool to create PvP maps in the same way we have a tool we can use to create bosses or a tool we can use to create items. Such a tool would let us create BGs and other PvP-oriented maps more readily. That's something that we're working toward now, but it's time consuming and exacting work, and still quite a ways off.

Still, ultimately we think all this effort will pay off, and we're confident that you'll feel the same way. In the meantime, there are still plenty of players of the opposing faction to send back to the Spirit Healer, and we hope you can continue to have fun making red dead wherever you find it.


So basically we won't be seeing anything new for pvp this expansion. Cool, we all know what happens when you guys try to get creative we get IoC and SotA, as much as I would like to see a new BG I don't have much faith in your ability to make maps other than WSG and AB.
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Hey I like that Shik...seriously..sounds like fun. It's a whole lot better to just run free and practices moves and stuff. kewl :D good concept..I like..
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85 Troll Mage
12470
07/20/2011 10:59 AMPosted by Daxxarri
We’d like to develop a tool to create PvP maps in the same way we have a tool we can use to create bosses or a tool we can use to create items. Such a tool would let us create BGs and other PvP-oriented maps more readily. That's something that we're working toward now, but it's time consuming and exacting work, and still quite a ways off.

This explains everything. The rest made no sense without it; the stuff about PvPers not caring about new maps couldn't explain why maps are such an important part of FPS and RTS games -- of course PvPers like new maps!

WoW having technical limitations that make it inordinately hard to create PvP maps is a sufficient explanation. However, I think everything else you've said is a distraction from this. It's whitewashing to "explain" it as serving the interests of PvPers who want balanced maps. They want balanced and diverse maps, and that's not much to want; it's standard in PvP games. Technical limitations do explain it though.
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100 Gnome Warrior
980
07/20/2011 10:59 AMPosted by Daxxarri
We know that a lot of the PvP community is ultimately more interested in having perfectly balanced and bug-free maps to play on, than they necessarily are in having new maps to play on.


It's funny that you should mention that. Part of my rallying points over the years have been terrain flaws. Those are important, of course. Add a possible exploit and soon 75% of the players will be using it. That said, there are still way too many "seams" around for something to appear seamless. WSG is an excellent example, in how the current map hurts defense and favors dumb zerg play. WSG was actually one of the better battlegrounds, but now it looks relatively stupid. Battlegrounds should not all be about honor per hour. Maybe a few battlegrounds can be about that, but not all of them. Eventually some players really do want to have fun, rather than just spend their entire mmo experience number crunching.

It's always been interesting to me to see how Warhammer failed. If it had succeeded, I would have pointed to some of their battlegrounds as good examples. As it stands, I'm just saddened to see how that worked out. Some of their battlegrounds were actually interesting, but weren't often played due to people all flocking to fotm classes.
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73 Draenei Paladin
450
Frankly the direction they took in cataclysm was perfect as far as BG's and is what I would like more of. Twin Peaks is cool, BFG is mmmmmmeeh. Its good but I dunno something about it doesn't feel that enjoyable when playing, possibly due to the fact that its pretty easy to see from the start if you're going to win or lose due to how fast pace this BG is. If people don't move quick, you lose.

But ultimately thats what I like to see as far as BG's. We don't need more crap like IoC or SoTa... Those are lame. Just give us different versions of what we already have. Capture the flag maps and AB maps. Even EotS is better than friggen IoC and Sota. Vehicles are fail and take away from the whole point of your character, doesn't matter if you're in greens or full vicious you move and press 2 different buttons.
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Yea, Broshn..I hated them with a passion....when I was so new I thought dying was humiliating...now I see everybody is doing it..lol. So they are super fun :D I like laughing at things and getting right into the sene and taking the flags as my feral durid and learning what not to do and what to do..lol.. I like it :D
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85 Undead Rogue
1480
game has been around to long not to implement a few of these style maps, which would be easy to make, your developers spend countless hours creating these massive raid environments which get dumped several months after they are out and sit idle, bgs are always active. While I believe that the maps have to be more polished, you still have errors in the bg system you have yet to address, and posting a blue post on something as pointless as this when rbgs are having que issues seems mind boggling.

1. Team Death match: classic for all pvp games and makes sense since it is a war game.
2. King of the hill, create a map with a big hill seems easy enough
3. make 5v5 maps, ctf and team death match mostly and make them smaller and inclosed say inside of a castle?
4. FFA (free for all) how do we not have one of these either ?


there are many ideas and maps you can make saying it is to hard to bring out out with every major patch is just a nice way of saying, sorry we feel no need to create more bg environment if you want to enjoy new content please go enjoy the raids we have built for you which will be pointless with the next tier set of armor.

if you need some help creating ideas im sure there are plenty of people you could hire.

Free for all: Rogue comes in at the last second when both enemies are on low hp and steals both kills.
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85 Orc Death Knight
3145
Hey blue here is food for thought. Maybe put in a world PvP daily where there are 2 quest. One is a offensive quest and the other a defensive one. It could be alone the lines of take complete control over a enemys town and maintain that control for a period of time. The rewards could be something as simple as honor points for that said daily quest. I feel it would add a spark to a now dead world pvp enviroment. Whats yalls thoughts?
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85 Draenei Mage
6850
So apparently the tools they use to make maps are so old and inefficient that making a polished BG map must be a head ache for them.

I find that so hard to believe. ID software release tools for thier community to make thier own maps back in 1998 in thier Quake engines. I use to make maps myself. Some people use to be so good at it that they could design a 24 player polished map in less than a month. No clip brushs were hanging out. The geomentry was perfect. That was back in 1998.

I'm supposed to believe this guy? Give me a break.
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