Buyers beware: The 365 2h sword is 3.5 speed

90 Dwarf Paladin
13855
07/28/2011 02:21 PMPosted by Kahk
... I'm also curious as to why a developer chose 3.5 speed...

... 3.5s is completely inexplicable though and that is why I want an explanation...

Here is what I think happened:
∙ Item was originally (test 4.2) 3.8speed ~3200 top end damage.
∙ Lead Designer did not like that it was almost the same as loot drop from Shannox.
∙ Lead Designer made a task that said, "Nerf this weapon by ~200 damage".
∙ Item Designer nerfed, at close to last moment, item to 3.8 speed ~3000 top end damage.
∙ Item Designer did not mark task as completed and went on vacation.
∙ Associate Designer renerfed item, at very last moment, to 3.5 speed ~ 2800 top end damage.


Stats don't work that way. Weapon damage is a function of weapon speed and weapon ilevel

(top end + bottom end) / speed = DPS

So if it has an appropriate DPS for the ilevel then the weapon damage is a simple function of speed.

the ingame tooltip speed and damage is correct, as is the 3.5s actual speed and damage.. The problem is that it is inappropriate for most 2hander users.

The reason for this confusion stemmed from a quirk in the way item hotfixes have to be applied, unfortunately. We hope to have the item's data completely corrected soon so others are not caught off guard by what the tooltip currently states.

Yes, obviously Blizzard needs to fix the tooltip on the pattern and the item if they're not going to just make it 3.80 like it ought to be. But, I think the real question ought to be:

Why isn't it 3.80 anyway?

At 3.80 speed, the weapon was over-performing relative to its cost and the ease with which it can be obtained.


Thanks for the reply, even if only because this thread should now appear on other major WoW sites to warn others.

And I get the idea behind 3.8 being too good with spells with a weapon speed modifier as that would edge it towards a 3.6 i378 weapon (it is worse, but maybe not a raid worthy upgrade.

However, it doesn't explain why you didn't pick 3.6s to make it intermediate between the T11 and T12 weapons. After all it is arguable more work to get than the almost equivalent S9 weapons and worse than the archaeology weapon.

It also doesn't really explain the role of the i365 gear. I think most of us assume it is a leg up from T11 to T12 as a new player will have an easier time getting the other weapons in the jump from turning 85 to hitting progression content, and it is pretty much worthless for anyone making the step from T11 to T12.
79 Human Priest
7775
[quote="29128013399"]i'm not really all that upset because i don't have one to feel ripped off about. this sword aside, a lot of the itemization and stat allocation this patch leaves me goin "wha...?". and i am even more confused than ever about how decisions like "how hard should this sword hit?" are made....


Something has seriously gone wrong and the sword is just the most obvious issue at hand.
85 Blood Elf Paladin
3615
07/28/2011 05:26 PMPosted by Eithris
Also, when was this part of a hotfix? There are no notes anywhere, that I can find, that prepare your customers for this.


this as well. those that actually browse the forums are only a small segment of the numbers of people who this affects. most people i know visit the forums or the wow web site very rarely, if at all.
Just about everybody in my guild.... haven't touched the WoW forums or even the WoW site other than to add gametime or to do something with their account...


they just go to mmochampions because... THERE IS MORE SHOWN THERE THAN ON THE WoW WEBSITE ITSELF!


... kinda sad blizzard *covers face in shame*
100 Goblin Death Knight
16635

Stats don't work that way. Weapon damage is a function of weapon speed and weapon ilevel

(top end + bottom end) / speed = DPS

Stats don't work what way?

And it is actually...

(TED/S)-((TED/S)-(LED/S)/2)=DPS

...hehe.
Edited by Kahk on 7/28/2011 5:54 PM PDT
97 Undead Warrior
8170
I just love how all the other recipe items are quite useful for the "cost and the ease with which it can be obtained.", yet this 2h is obviously mis-itemized for who it is for.
Community Manager
We wanted this weapon to be roughly on par with weapons from the previous tier, since it can be purchased from the Auction House. It wasn't intended to compete as much with current raid drops, as it felt weird that a strength-based DPS crafted weapon was more attractive than some of its counterparts.
24 Draenei Shaman
280
07/28/2011 04:48 PMPosted by Zarhym
At 3.80 speed, the weapon was over-performing relative to its cost and the ease with which it can be obtained.


This makes absolutely no sense at all because at 3.5, it is under-performing relative to its cost and the ease with which it can be obtained.

I can grind a basically equivalent season 9 sword in how many hours?
70 Tauren Druid
900
All they did was make a half butted weapon to keep players from crying that weapons are hard to come by. They're probably sitting back and laughing at the people who bought this thinking they would be getting an upgrade to 359 to find out that they just bought a purple 346 item.
24 Draenei Shaman
280
07/28/2011 06:33 PMPosted by Zarhym
We wanted this weapon to be roughly on par with weapons from the previous tier, since it can be purchased from the Auction House. It wasn't intended to compete as much with current raid drops, as it felt weird that a strength-based DPS crafted weapon was more attractive than some of its counterparts.


That explains why the 2H is selling for half of the other 365 craftables, right?

Those craftables are as attractive as some of their counterparts, no?

This is easy math.
Edited by Hauthorn on 7/28/2011 6:37 PM PDT
81 Worgen Rogue
850
07/28/2011 06:33 PMPosted by Hauthorn
At 3.80 speed, the weapon was over-performing relative to its cost and the ease with which it can be obtained.


This makes absolutely no sense at all because at 3.5, it is under-performing relative to its cost and the ease with which it can be obtained.

I can grind a basically equivalent season 9 sword in how many hours?

Correct me if I'm wrong, but don't PvE players loath people who think PvP gear is just as good as equivalent PvE gear?

I see a lot of Resilience on those PvP weapons. Resilience that can't be reforged to a more useful stat.
70 Tauren Druid
900
07/28/2011 06:33 PMPosted by Zarhym
We wanted this weapon to be roughly on par with weapons from the previous tier, since it can be purchased from the Auction House. It wasn't intended to compete as much with current raid drops, as it felt weird that a strength-based DPS crafted weapon was more attractive than some of its counterparts.


There are so many examples of this happening on trinkets and armor yet because this is a weapon its a big deal. 3.5 makes it useless.
81 Worgen Rogue
850
07/28/2011 06:41 PMPosted by Morphinrangr
We wanted this weapon to be roughly on par with weapons from the previous tier, since it can be purchased from the Auction House. It wasn't intended to compete as much with current raid drops, as it felt weird that a strength-based DPS crafted weapon was more attractive than some of its counterparts.


There are so many examples of this happening on trinkets and armor yet because this is a weapon its a big deal. 3.5 makes it useless.

Because, obviously, everyone who ever has a Plate DPS ever will always have a better weapon than this and couldn't possibly fathom this weapon being an upgrade from a 333 or 346 dungeon blue.
100 Blood Elf Mage
14360
The reason for this confusion stemmed from a quirk in the way item hotfixes have to be applied, unfortunately. We hope to have the item's data completely corrected soon so others are not caught off guard by what the tooltip currently states.

Yes, obviously Blizzard needs to fix the tooltip on the pattern and the item if they're not going to just make it 3.80 like it ought to be. But, I think the real question ought to be:

Why isn't it 3.80 anyway?

At 3.80 speed, the weapon was over-performing relative to its cost and the ease with which it can be obtained.


Yeah, unfortunately the sword has gone from coveted to worthless. /sigh (I ended up with one trying to trade for a spellblade and now I'm stuck with a horrendous loss).

70 Tauren Druid
900
07/28/2011 06:45 PMPosted by Cestus


There are so many examples of this happening on trinkets and armor yet because this is a weapon its a big deal. 3.5 makes it useless.

Because, obviously, everyone who ever has a Plate DPS ever will always have a better weapon than this and couldn't possibly fathom this weapon being an upgrade from a 333 or 346 dungeon blue.


Well since it runs very close to 346 weapon I'd say the only ones wanting this would be gold buyers or people who can't finish a ZA/ZG run.
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