Buyers beware: The 365 2h sword is 3.5 speed

85 Worgen Hunter
2500
If you nerf this 365 weapon then you should nerf the 378 BOE weapons that drop from Firelands trash because they are just as easy to obtain.
100 Human Paladin
14975
The reason for this confusion stemmed from a quirk in the way item hotfixes have to be applied, unfortunately. We hope to have the item's data completely corrected soon so others are not caught off guard by what the tooltip currently states.

Yes, obviously Blizzard needs to fix the tooltip on the pattern and the item if they're not going to just make it 3.80 like it ought to be. But, I think the real question ought to be:

Why isn't it 3.80 anyway?

At 3.80 speed, the weapon was over-performing relative to its cost and the ease with which it can be obtained.


The weapon has been over nerfed.

Secondly, this is not true when comparing the TOOLTIP to current counter-parts...
∙ 359 - 1795-2693 3.6s Akirus the Worm-Breaker
∙ 359 - 1795-2693 3.6s Shalug'doom, the Axe of Unmaking
∙ 359 - 1795-2693 3.6s Vicious Gladiator's Greatsword
∙ 365 - 1845-2769 3.5s (REALITY) Masterwork Elementium Deathblade
∙ 359 - 1894-2843 3.8s Reclaimed Ashkandi, Greatsword of the Brotherhood
∙ 359 - 1894-2843 3.8s Zin'rokh, Destroyer of Worlds
∙ 365 - 2003-3006 3.8s (TOOLTIP) <<-- Look, it should be here!
∙ 372 - 2026-3040 3.6s Shalug'doom, the Axe of Unmaking
∙ 372 - 2026-3040 3.6s Akirus the Worm-Breaker
∙ 372 - 2238-3209 3.8s Reclaimed Ashkandi, Greatsword of the Brotherhood
∙ 365 - 1753-3256 3.8s (BETA 4.2) <<-- Sorta out of place, but look at variable damage...
∙ 378 - 2142-3215 3.8s Skullstealer Greataxe
∙ 378 - 2142-3215 3.8s Ruthless Gladiator's Greatsword
∙ 378 - 2142-3215 3.8s Zoid's Firelit Greatsword (Has a 1x Gem Sockets)
∙ 384 - 2392-3589 3.8s Sulfuras, The Extinguished Hand (Has a 2x Gem Sockets)



The tooltip is not updated to match the nerf.

MMO-champs shows it pre-nerf

http://db.mmo-champion.com/s/99658/masterwork-elementium-deathblade/

Wowhead shows it post-nerf
http://www.wowhead.com/item=70164


The pattern is very time consuming to obtain.

Time/money spent by crafters:
Recipie
19 days of dailies say 40min each day = 12.67 hours of dailies toward recipie



The mats are expensive and time consuming to obtain.


Chaos Orbs
In most dungeon runs, you’ll have between 2 and 4 people rolling on them, in my experience. There are pretty good numbers on how long a standard dungeon run – the most efficient way to get a chaos orb – takes. It’s about 50 minutes. So, to get enough Chaos Orbs to make one of these weapons, on average, you’re looking at 3(average number of rollers) x 50(minutes) x5 (Orbs) = 12 hours, 30 min of dungeons for a single weapon craft (not counting queue time).
Truegold
8 days of cooldowns if you have a Alchemist and 8 days of farming volatiles and pyrium ore for the mats for the Truegold transmute.
8 truegold on AH 8x850(server avg)=6800gold
Hardened elementium bars and Ocean Sapphire
4bars and 2 OS comes out to about 350 gold
So 7150gold and 25.17 hours of farming orbs and recipies.
85 Human Death Knight
5035
07/29/2011 08:34 AMPosted by Morphinrangr
And still blue say with a straight face that it's easy to obtain and was overperforming. We didn't grind the quests just to get a weapon that we thought would ease our entry into FL a little, only to discover it's not, other than the ilvl benefit.


It wouldn't be so bad if you couldn't get 378 weapons off the AH and the other 365 besides the polearm are where the Sword used to be.



This is the big stumbling block for me. "No, no, its too powerful at 3.8, we have to move it down to 3.5 so its in line with what we wanted it to be." So you wanted it to be not as good a weapon as other specs' crafted weapons at that level?

I would really like to know a little bit more about this change. It seems a good topic for the dev water cooler: "Ilvl; the creation of epic items" or something.

The other issue is that Blizzard is aware of the change having already been made, having no intention of putting the weapon speed at 3.8 but intending to change the tool tip... meanwhile there are people in game who are still buying this weapon expecting it to be 3.8. That's terrible. There has to be a better way to handle this than "we'll fix the tool tip soon". I mean, really... leaves a very bad taste in my mouth that this seems ok with Blizzard.
90 Blood Elf Paladin
7530
So let me get this straight....I can buy gear from the vendors that is superior in almost every way to the BoT,Throne,BWD gear I had....but my sword that I did the same dalies for is not allowed to be on that level. Huh, seems to make no sense to me
88 Blood Elf Death Knight
0
I wish Blizz would just man up and either change the stats to a happy middle so its not a downgrade from a Za/ZG weapon or refund crafters the items it took to create this weapon. Oh wait but that means getting actual service for what we pay for.
90 Draenei Warrior
10230
07/28/2011 06:33 PMPosted by Zarhym
We wanted this weapon to be roughly on par with weapons from the previous tier, since it can be purchased from the Auction House. It wasn't intended to compete as much with current raid drops, as it felt weird that a strength-based DPS crafted weapon was more attractive than some of its counterparts.


Ok, fine. This explains why it's wrong. I think this thread has gone way off into stat-land when the core issue really is what I stated earlier in the thread.

I got the sword because I liked the stats on the tooltip. It doesn't do what the tooltip says it does. It took a fair chunk of time/gold to get the mats to make it.

Pretty clear cut bait-and-switch there. I didn't get what I thought I would get, I won't get my time or mats back, and I'm stuck with it because it's soulbound.

This does not make me feel warm and fuzzy inside.

P.S. Fix the targeting bug. Please.
85 Tauren Druid
10680
07/28/2011 06:33 PMPosted by Zarhym
We wanted this weapon to be roughly on par with weapons from the previous tier, since it can be purchased from the Auction House. It wasn't intended to compete as much with current raid drops, as it felt weird that a strength-based DPS crafted weapon was more attractive than some of its counterparts.


Then why didn't you just make the crafted weapons 359's?

Why is it ok that all the others are more attractive than their counterparts.

Seems pretty silly.
90 Orc Death Knight
16060
Any word on when the others are being nerfed to the ground like this weapon was?

Cata seems to the be expansion of "Oops our bad, sorry for the mistakes"
Edited by Omina on 7/29/2011 9:03 AM PDT
85 Human Death Knight
2770
07/28/2011 08:49 PMPosted by Maylianna
yeah because im trolling a bunch of qq'ers who blew money ona a ilvl 365 wep and it wasnt want they wanted and are now demanding blizz to refund them? yeah no its asimple opinion that yall need to let blizz do their job instead of flaming them everytime a mistake is made


Except this is a fairly big mistake that could and should have been addressed before people spend their time money and effort on something that wasn't worth it.

If someone told you they were giving you a car to build them a house, and you built the house and the mustang you were promised turned out to be an amc rambler, and you were told you should have gone the more difficult route of mugging the car dealer and taking the keys he dropped to earn the good stuff, you'd be mad too.
100 Goblin Death Knight
16670
07/28/2011 06:51 PMPosted by Kahk
...as it felt weird that a strength-based DPS crafted weapon was more attractive than some of its counterparts.

First off, this is true when it was its old BETA stats...
http://db.mmo-champion.com/i/70172/plans-masterwork-elementium-deathblade/

Secondly, this is not true when comparing the TOOLTIP to current counter-parts...
∙ 359 - 1795-2693 3.6s Akirus the Worm-Breaker
∙ 359 - 1795-2693 3.6s Shalug'doom, the Axe of Unmaking
∙ 359 - 1795-2693 3.6s Vicious Gladiator's Greatsword
∙ 365 - 1845-2769 3.5s (REALITY) Masterwork Elementium Deathblade
∙ 359 - 1894-2842 3.8s Reclaimed Ashkandi, Greatsword of the Brotherhood
∙ 359 - 1894-2842 3.8s Zin'rokh, Destroyer of Worlds
∙ 365 - 2003-3006 3.8s (TOOLTIP) <<-- Look, it should be here!
∙ 372 - 2026-3040 3.6s Shalug'doom, the Axe of Unmaking
∙ 372 - 2026-3040 3.6s Akirus the Worm-Breaker
∙ 372 - 2138-3209 3.8s Reclaimed Ashkandi, Greatsword of the Brotherhood
∙ 365 - 1753-3256 3.8s (BETA 4.2) <<-- Sorta out of place, but look at variable damage...
∙ 378 - 2142-3215 3.6s Skullstealer Greataxe
∙ 378 - 2142-3215 3.6s Ruthless Gladiator's Greatsword
∙ 378 - 2142-3215 3.6s Zoid's Firelit Greatsword (Has a 1x Gem Sockets)
∙ 384 - 2392-3589 3.8s Sulfuras, The Extinguished Hand (Has a 2x Gem Sockets)

I had the speeds wrong on the ilevel 378 items... this is corrected in my list now.

Funny thing here is that the World of Warcraft website is screwing up Zoid's Firelit Greatsword and showing no DPS or Speed. Wowhead shows it; not sure about in-game... so Blizzard CS, what place should we be going again to get the correct data?

And I just noticed, not a huge thing, but www.wowhead.com has all the TED increased by 1... so wtf? Who's data is correct?
Edited by Kahk on 7/29/2011 9:21 AM PDT
85 Dwarf Warrior
8150
07/29/2011 08:50 AMPosted by Glaceau
So let me get this straight....I can buy gear from the vendors that is superior in almost every way to the BoT,Throne,BWD gear I had....but my sword that I did the same dalies for is not allowed to be on that level. Huh, seems to make no sense to me


This is a very good point.

Also, the existence of the Obsidium Cleaver as a BoE kind of blows away all the credibility of Blizzards excuse. You can buy them in the same place you can buy these swords, yet they are 378, full power and retard-strong. Is it ok for 1 handers but not 2 handers? Maybe it's ok for axes but not swords? Because the "it's sellable" excuse is obviously not true.

Also, fix the targetting bug.
70 Tauren Druid
900
07/29/2011 09:13 AMPosted by Kahk

First off, this is true when it was its old BETA stats...
http://db.mmo-champion.com/i/70172/plans-masterwork-elementium-deathblade/

Secondly, this is not true when comparing the TOOLTIP to current counter-parts...
∙ 359 - 1795-2693 3.6s Akirus the Worm-Breaker
∙ 359 - 1795-2693 3.6s Shalug'doom, the Axe of Unmaking
∙ 359 - 1795-2693 3.6s Vicious Gladiator's Greatsword
∙ 365 - 1845-2769 3.5s (REALITY) Masterwork Elementium Deathblade
∙ 359 - 1894-2842 3.8s Reclaimed Ashkandi, Greatsword of the Brotherhood
∙ 359 - 1894-2842 3.8s Zin'rokh, Destroyer of Worlds
∙ 365 - 2003-3006 3.8s (TOOLTIP) <<-- Look, it should be here!
∙ 372 - 2026-3040 3.6s Shalug'doom, the Axe of Unmaking
∙ 372 - 2026-3040 3.6s Akirus the Worm-Breaker
∙ 372 - 2138-3209 3.8s Reclaimed Ashkandi, Greatsword of the Brotherhood
∙ 365 - 1753-3256 3.8s (BETA 4.2) <<-- Sorta out of place, but look at variable damage...
∙ 378 - 2142-3215 3.6s Skullstealer Greataxe
∙ 378 - 2142-3215 3.6s Ruthless Gladiator's Greatsword
∙ 378 - 2142-3215 3.6s Zoid's Firelit Greatsword (Has a 1x Gem Sockets)
∙ 384 - 2392-3589 3.8s Sulfuras, The Extinguished Hand (Has a 2x Gem Sockets)

I had the speeds wrong on the ilevel 378 items... this is corrected in my list now.

Funny thing here is that the World of Warcraft website is screwing up Zoid's Firelit Greatsword and showing no DPS or Speed. Wowhead shows it; not sure about in-game... so Blizzard CS, what place should we be going again to get the correct data?

And I just noticed, not a huge thing, but www.wowhead.com has all the TED increased by 1... so wtf? Who's data is correct?


We had Shalug'doom, the Axe of Unmaking parsing a few dps higher then Masterwork Elementium Deathblade. I'll have to check again.
85 Blood Elf Paladin
10885
Considering that the axe off shannox has a very low drop rate, would it be viable to purchase the polearm off the ah for dps? Is it a dps increase over akirus? Or should I just wait for the pvp weapon that I may be able to obtain next week.
100 Goblin Death Knight
16670
... the polearm off the ah for dps?

What polearm?
85 Night Elf Warrior
0
Yeah the whole reason is smelling like rotten fish.

For one I can buy multiple items from the Molten Front vendors that are better than those of previous raids. I can craft multiple items that are better than those from the previous tier.

The ONLY exception to this is the 2-handed sword. They deemed it UNWORTHY to actually be better than the previous tier gear for some unknown reason. Rogues can get newer and better weapons. DW Frost DKs can get newer better weapons. Even SMF fury warriors can. But arms, TG Fury, ret, and unholy cannot.

Who exactly decided that this was acceptable?
85 Orc Death Knight
4480
I wonder if it's something to do with 2h str weapons. I mean, in the last tier it's the only slot you couldn't fill (that I know of anyway) of ilvl 359 w/o a boe, craft or VP's.

I also hope we haven't scared Zar off :(

Edit: By slot, I mean major weapon slot. Again I might be wrong though.
Edited by Ghatok on 7/29/2011 9:54 AM PDT
85 Orc Death Knight
8475
Yeah the whole reason is smelling like rotten fish.

For one I can buy multiple items from the Molten Front vendors that are better than those of previous raids. I can craft multiple items that are better than those from the previous tier.

The ONLY exception to this is the 2-handed sword. They deemed it UNWORTHY to actually be better than the previous tier gear for some unknown reason. Rogues can get newer and better weapons. DW Frost DKs can get newer better weapons. Even SMF fury warriors can. But arms, TG Fury, ret, and unholy cannot.

Who exactly decided that this was acceptable?


Someone that hates 2handed Str users, obviously. I'm pretty unhappy that this tooltip problem wasn't announced earlier. What worries me is I've had items restored previously due to a hacked account, will this cancel me out of getting it unbound? If they do grant these, that is. (Having doubts GM's will even do it because they're strict)
Edited by Demise on 7/29/2011 9:59 AM PDT
90 Dwarf Paladin
13855

I had the speeds wrong on the ilevel 378 items... this is corrected in my list now.

Funny thing here is that the World of Warcraft website is screwing up Zoid's Firelit Greatsword and showing no DPS or Speed. Wowhead shows it; not sure about in-game... so Blizzard CS, what place should we be going again to get the correct data?


The worst part about this is that the tooltip is STILL incorrect even after an 8 hour maintenance, you think they couldn't spend 5 minutes to fix the tooltip? Also, Consider adding Jeklik's Smasher to the list, as that's what many non-raiders are/were wielding before the sword came out.


Here I'll give them a little leeway, I think tooltips are stored on your PC in a WoW file. Therefore they have to patch it to your computer so that takes a little more work.

However, I am not sure if the same is true of weapon stats and whether they can be hotfixed (after all they often change spells, but the tooltips remain unchanged).

And I have just plugged the i359, i365 and i378 speed, DPS and strength stats into Redscapes Ret DPS calculator and it gave the following:

i359 3.6s: 21,808 total DPS
i365 3.5s: 21,928 total DPS
i365 3.6s: 22,166 total DPS
i365 3.8s: 22,639 total DPS
i378 3.6s: 23,035 total DPS

Even at 3.8s the BoE sword is not as good as an i378 raid drop but I can see them saying it is too good. The problem is that at 3.5s it quite simply is not good enough. 3.6s would probably be fair.

And for all their "it is too good to be sold" stuff, especially when you consider the other i365 weapons, let alone the i378 BoE drops from FL, they really should have considered that it takes 6 weeks to grind out the arena wins for an i378 S10 weapon.

It is an awful lot less game time to grind the arena wins for an S10 weapon, even assuming you don't break 1500 rating and start earning more points, or get the bonus 1 rBG a week and get the weapon in 5 weeks, than it is to grind 10-20k gold for the BoE weapon.
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