Buyers beware: The 365 2h sword is 3.5 speed

85 Goblin Shaman
10095
good thing I didn't make it then...
90 Night Elf Death Knight
11480
So I've read the whole thread, and I'm not sure I'm clear about what's wrong exactly. The speed on the tooltip says 3.8, and the damage says 2003-3006 and 659 dps. Does this mean that the damage stats shown on the tooltip are wrong, because the speed is (in reality) 3.5?

I'm trying to figure out whether this really was an upgrade for this character. I had the Blade of the Fearless previously. I don't raid, and I transmuted the Truegold myself, so it's not a HUGE loss for me (though I could have used the Truegold for the dagger for my mage...), but still irritating on principle.

Can anyone give me some help on this?

And yeah, when is Blizzard going to tell us something about this? It would take like 10 seconds to say "yeah, we know about it, the tool tip will be fixed soon(tm)" or some such.
90 Dwarf Paladin
13855
So I've read the whole thread, and I'm not sure I'm clear about what's wrong exactly. The speed on the tooltip says 3.8, and the damage says 2003-3006 and 659 dps. Does this mean that the damage stats shown on the tooltip are wrong, because the speed is (in reality) 3.5?

I'm trying to figure out whether this really was an upgrade for this character. I had the Blade of the Fearless previously. I don't raid, and I transmuted the Truegold myself, so it's not a HUGE loss for me (though I could have used the Truegold for the dagger for my mage...), but still irritating on principle.

Can anyone give me some help on this?

And yeah, when is Blizzard going to tell us something about this? It would take like 10 seconds to say "yeah, we know about it, the tool tip will be fixed soon(tm)" or some such.


The actual current in game stats for the weapon are:
Masterwork Elementium Deathblade
Binds when equipped
Two-Hand Sword
1845 - 2769 Damage Speed 3.50
(659.2 damage per second)
+361 Strength
+541 Stamina
Durability 120 / 120
Requires Level 85
Item Level 365
Equip: Increases your haste rating by 241 (1.88% @ L85).
Equip: Increases your mastery rating by 241 (1.34 @ L85).
Sell Price: 34 78 71


Which is not what it says on the tooltip in game for the sword or the recipe.

In your case it should still be a nice upgrade. Although you might want to just consider getting an i359 honor one if you want to grind out 7500 honor as that is almost as good and costs no gold.

And there are currently conflicting reports coming in from GMs from tickets people have opened, basically we have now been told:

1) the sword is correct, the in game tooltip is wrong.

2) the sword is incorrect, the in game tooltip is right, it is being fixed "soon"

3) no you can't have your mats back but we'll return the old weapon you vendored.

4) no you can't have the mats back but we'll un BoP and give back the enchanting mats so you can pass your misery on to some other schmuck who read the tooltip and assumed it was correct.

It would be somewhat useful to get a definitive blue response on this issue as their GMs appear to be answering tickets with random responses at the moment.

It would be extremely useful to get the response by tomorrow morning for the raid reset so that those of us conned into buying it know whether to roll on the shannox weapons if they drop, or whether the sword will be fixed to 3.8s and so to pass on the weapons if other people were not conned and are still using their i359 weapons.
90 Night Elf Death Knight
11480
Okay, thanks for all that info Zamm! I've already paid to have it crafted after I gathered the mats myself, except the orbs of course, so I probably won't go after the PvP sword unless my husband can figure out how to drag me into TB again...

I agree, it would be nice to have a definitive response. For myself, if it turns out that they won't make the sword "really" be 3.80 I might see what I can do about getting mats back or having it unbound to sell it on, since it obviously isn't as big an upgrade as advertised for my DK, and the mats would have been better spent for the dagger for my mage who really DOES need an upgrade.

Thanks again, and luck to us all for SOME sort of response to this issue.
90 Draenei Warrior
10025
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QgdTymCZowU&feature=relmfu
Edited by Klystron on 7/25/2011 10:21 AM PDT
90 Human Paladin
13535
Which is not what it says on the tooltip in game for the sword or the recipe.

In your case it should still be a nice upgrade. Although you might want to just consider getting an i359 honor one if you want to grind out 7500 honor as that is almost as good and costs no gold.

And there are currently conflicting reports coming in from GMs from tickets people have opened, basically we have now been told:

1) the sword is correct, the in game tooltip is wrong.

2) the sword is incorrect, the in game tooltip is right, it is being fixed "soon"

3) no you can't have your mats back but we'll return the old weapon you vendored.

4) no you can't have the mats back but we'll un BoP and give back the enchanting mats so you can pass your misery on to some other schmuck who read the tooltip and assumed it was correct.

It would be somewhat useful to get a definitive blue response on this issue as their GMs appear to be answering tickets with random responses at the moment.

It would be extremely useful to get the response by tomorrow morning for the raid reset so that those of us conned into buying it know whether to roll on the shannox weapons if they drop, or whether the sword will be fixed to 3.8s and so to pass on the weapons if other people were not conned and are still using their i359 weapons.


Great reply. Thanks for posting this information. I also am waiting patiently for some information on this subject.
85 Worgen Warlock
3515
Could someone just answer me this.

Doesn't faster weapon speed make for more dps?
90 Undead Rogue
14765
Could someone just answer me this.

Doesn't faster weapon speed make for more dps?


You could have read the thread. That would have answered your question.
90 Human Paladin
13535
07/25/2011 12:03 PMPosted by Agonízer
Doesn't faster weapon speed make for more dps?



http://www.wowwiki.com/Normalize (out of date but it is still a good read if you are not familiar with the concept)

Ret Seals, Judgement and TV are not normalized to weapon speed. So although it may be counter-intuitive to think of a slower weapon doing more DPS, this is indeed the case. Ret attacks are all instant attacks limited by cooldowns. A slower weapon has higher top end damage than a parallel faster weapon, so the instant non-normalized attacks listed above actually do more damage with slower weapons.

Below are some formulas taken from EJ for calculating damage from various ret abilities. Take note of Crusader's Strike. It has been normalized to a 3.3 weapon speed. Other attacks have not been normalized and actually use the actual weapon's weapon speed in the damage calculations.

From EJ:

Autoattack
((AP/14) * Weaponspeed) + Weapon damage

Crusader Strike
(((AP/14) * 3.3 ) + Weapon damage) * 135%

Templar's Verdict
(((AP/14) * Weaponspeed) + Weapon damage) * 235%

Seal of Righteousness
Seal: Weaponspeed + 1.1% AP + 2.2% SP. Cannot crit.
Judgement: 1 + 20% AP + 32% SP.

Seal of Truth
Seal: (((AP/14) * Weaponspeed) + Weapon damage) * 15%

Censure: (1.92% AP + 1% SP) per stack. At 5 stacks (9.6% AP + 5% SP). Ticks every 3 seconds, reduced by haste. Censure is now applied by most of our attacks, this leads to far more rapid stacking and for easier target swapping.

Judgement: (1 + 14.21% AP + 22.29% SP) * (100% + (10% * Censure Stacks)). At 5 stacks this is (1.5 + 21.315% AP + 33.435% SP).
Edited by Kezmaefele on 7/25/2011 12:39 PM PDT
90 Dwarf Paladin
13855
Could someone just answer me this.

Doesn't faster weapon speed make for more dps?


several bread and butter abilities for classes using 2 hand mellee weapons have their damage modified by the speed of the weapon. the listed "dps" of the weapon is basically what damage that weapon will do while auto-attacking and without taking into account your own attributes.

for certain instant striking abilities the damage gets a modifier to normalize said damage. if the speed is 3.8, you get a damage boost, because the weapon swings slower it hits harder per swing. i think 3.5 is the baseline. if the time between swings (the weapon speed) is greater than 3.5, you get a % based damage increase determined by that speed. if it is faster than 3.5, you take a damage reduction. this is also modified by your haste now, i think, but i'm not sure. i took a 3 year break from the game towards the end of wrath.

the uproar is because many paladins, warriors, and death knights were going after this weapon specifically BECAUSE of the 3.8 weapon speed that was shown on the ingame tooltip for both the weapon and the recipe on the vendor. since its a 3.5 speed weapon and the tooltip lies, many people who already had akirus or ashkandi or zin'rhok or some other decent 2hander are feeling screwed since it's a waste of time, gold, and mats to get this weapon.


Excellently put and we are still waiting on a blue post on this. If only because the GMs in game are answering tickets in completely different ways, and apparently responding to tickets in completely different ways with how they handle people having bought a broken sword.

Even if a blue says it is working as intended they need to clear up the misinformation coming from the ticket answers.
Edited by Zamm on 7/25/2011 1:38 PM PDT
90 Troll Shaman
7895
07/21/2011 11:19 AMPosted by Kahk
Just on the 365 weaps?

Various items and abilites. Improved Death Strike Tooltip for example still shows the old bonuses and not the new ones.


There are still abilities for hunters that mention pet happiness...
90 Human Paladin
6495
Which is not what it says on the tooltip in game for the sword or the recipe.

In your case it should still be a nice upgrade. Although you might want to just consider getting an i359 honor one if you want to grind out 7500 honor as that is almost as good and costs no gold.

And there are currently conflicting reports coming in from GMs from tickets people have opened, basically we have now been told:

1) the sword is correct, the in game tooltip is wrong.

2) the sword is incorrect, the in game tooltip is right, it is being fixed "soon"

3) no you can't have your mats back but we'll return the old weapon you vendored.

4) no you can't have the mats back but we'll un BoP and give back the enchanting mats so you can pass your misery on to some other schmuck who read the tooltip and assumed it was correct.

It would be somewhat useful to get a definitive blue response on this issue as their GMs appear to be answering tickets with random responses at the moment.

It would be extremely useful to get the response by tomorrow morning for the raid reset so that those of us conned into buying it know whether to roll on the shannox weapons if they drop, or whether the sword will be fixed to 3.8s and so to pass on the weapons if other people were not conned and are still using their i359 weapons.


Great reply. Thanks for posting this information. I also am waiting patiently for some information on this subject.
90 Dwarf Paladin
13855
07/25/2011 01:41 PMPosted by Shillen

Various items and abilites. Improved Death Strike Tooltip for example still shows the old bonuses and not the new ones.


There are still abilities for hunters that mention pet happiness...


Incorrect spell tooltips are slightly different. You are going to use the spell regardless and most people get their optimum DPS rotation from an external site, very few people sit down with a calculator and work their rotation out based directly on their stats and spell coefficients and CDs.

In this case people are buying a weapon based on how it is advertized, only to discover that it is pretty much worthless compared to what they thought they were buying.

The difference is in the fact that blizzard are pointing you towards once decision when it is a complete was of the time and effort you put into obtaining the mats.
90 Dwarf Paladin
13855


Incorrect spell tooltips are slightly different. You are going to use the spell regardless and most people get their optimum DPS rotation from an external site, very few people sit down with a calculator and work their rotation out based directly on their stats and spell coefficients and CDs.

In this case people are buying a weapon based on how it is advertized, only to discover that it is pretty much worthless compared to what they thought they were buying.

The difference is in the fact that blizzard are pointing you towards once decision when it is a complete was of the time and effort you put into obtaining the mats.


i didn't get one. i found this thread just in time to save myself the anguish. but i'll keep discussing this as long as i can so that it stays front page so more people can see it and don't get ripped off.


It is a double edged sword. There are the buyers who want to know this. But there will be plenty of blacksmiths who have one up on the AH and even if they know the problem really hope the buyers don't find out so they don't lose the money they invested into making it.

Blizzard need to hurry up and give a response, and hopefully have the weapon fixed to be 3.8s by tomorrow before people start seeing shannox drops.

And if they are not going to fix it then they need to let us know how we are getting our mats back.
90 Human Paladin
6495
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QgdTymCZowU&feature=relmfu

Got this from the bug forum, it's perfect
90 Human Paladin
6495
Confirmed by a blue as a 3.5 speed "as intended"

http://us.battle.net/wow/en/forum/topic/2842886834?page=8
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