Buyers beware: The 365 2h sword is 3.5 speed

90 Human Paladin
6495
Is there a reason that a 365 crafted weapon is flat-out worse than a 359 non-raid weapon ( Zin'rokh, Destroyer of Worlds )?


One and one reason only, you do not have to raid to get it.
90 Goblin Death Knight
15880
Is there a reason that a 365 crafted weapon is flat-out worse than a 359 non-raid weapon ( Zin'rokh, Destroyer of Worlds )?


One and one reason only, you do not have to raid to get it.

The time spent farming for the above sword can take a LONG time; you also have the chance of getting other great loots while farming for said sword.
Edited by Kahk on 7/27/2011 10:10 AM PDT
1 Gnome Rogue
0
07/21/2011 07:27 AMPosted by Kezmaefele
The speed is a lie.


First the cake now the speed! I feel like there's nothing left I can trust anymore...:(


But yeah, this has been a pretty underhanded thing to do. It looks uber awesome! It removes matts off the server (and gold too via AH) to get something....that wasn't what you wanted.


It's lying seeing a picture of a Lamborghini paying crazy money...just to get it and see it's just a covet with a Lamborghini kit. It LOOKS like what you paid for...but is not what you paid for.

I really wonder if it was a screw up or intentional just to get matts and some gold off the servers.
90 Goblin Death Knight
15880
07/27/2011 10:12 AMPosted by Finkathy
It's lying seeing a picture of a Lamborghini paying crazy money...just to get it and see it's just a covet with a Lamborghini kit. It LOOKS like what you paid for...but is not what you paid for.

Its like buying a World of Warcraft gamebox at GameStop and finding the Rift manual, game disc, and keycode inside when you get home. Then the folks at GameStop tell you "TFB, thats how we package the Rift game from now on. You should have went to the Rift forums and read up on how we box that game now so you would have known not to buy it thinking it was World of Warcraft".
Edited by Kahk on 7/27/2011 10:35 AM PDT
24 Draenei Shaman
280
In my opinion I think this weapon was intended for the casual gamer who does not raid, or PvP, and has tons of cash laying around; it allows for those people to get to a previous raid tier level of weapon without making it a super weapon for those individuals.

BUT, I do think Blizzard has handled this quite poorly and should have noted the changes somewhere so people would have not spent time, mats, and gold on the weapon based on in-game stats. Being told that we should have to check a website, wowhead or here, to ensure the in-game data is correct before we purchase an item is extremely stupid.


I think most people who really wanted this weapon ARE raiders who would have used it until something better drops in FL. A weapon like this removes loot drama, while still being something to look forward to replacing.

And I'm sure this has been mentioned, but are the other 365 craftable weapons gimped along this philosophical line? Are tanks, rogues, casters, etc respectively complaining about gimped stats on their 365s? Nope.
90 Dwarf Paladin
13855
So... I did a little homework and, even though I hate to say it, the sword does have a place at its "intended" stats.

Technically the only two "Pre-Firelands" non-heroic raid drops that are better are:
Reclaimed Ashkandi, Greatsword of the Brotherhood - Nefarian in Blackwing Descent
Zin'rokh, Destroyer of Worlds - Archeology

Technically it is slighty better, and probably not worth spending the mats on if you have one of these weapons:
Shalug'doom, the Axe of Unmaking - Cho'Gall in Bastion of Twilight
Akirus the Worm-Breaker - Magmaw in Blackwing Descent
Vicious Gladiator's Bonegrinder - Honor Points
Vicious Gladiator's Decapitator - Honor Points
Vicious Gladiator's Greatsword - Honor Points

In my opinion I think this weapon was intended for the casual gamer who does not raid, or PvP, and has tons of cash laying around; it allows for those people to get to a previous raid tier level of weapon without making it a super weapon for those individuals.

BUT, I do think Blizzard has handled this quite poorly and should have noted the changes somewhere so people would have not spent time, mats, and gold on the weapon based on in-game stats. Being told that we should have to check a website, wowhead or here, to ensure the in-game data is correct before we purchase an item is extremely stupid.


The problem is how little an improvement over the 3.6s i359 weapons it is. I am assuming that the i365 stuff is to help with the transition from T11 raiding to T12 raiding. The 3.8s speed on the sword made it fall nicely between i359 and i378 weapons. The 3.5s speed means that it is such a tiny increase in DPS as to not be worth the stats.

And worse, the people who farmed for the recipe and delayed an actual i365 to get this weapon must be even more annoyed.

Blizzard give the mats back to everyone who feels this sword is a waste of time, for once think of your customers.
90 Night Elf Death Knight
11230
So I've read the whole thread, and I'm not sure I'm clear about what's wrong exactly. The speed on the tooltip says 3.8, and the damage says 2003-3006 and 659 dps. Does this mean that the damage stats shown on the tooltip are wrong, because the speed is (in reality) 3.5?

I'm trying to figure out whether this really was an upgrade for this character. I had the Blade of the Fearless previously. I don't raid, and I transmuted the Truegold myself, so it's not a HUGE loss for me (though I could have used the Truegold for the dagger for my mage...), but still irritating on principle.

Can anyone give me some help on this?

And yeah, when is Blizzard going to tell us something about this? It would take like 10 seconds to say "yeah, we know about it, the tool tip will be fixed soon(tm)" or some such.


Current weapon is better by a bit over 1k dps when compared with that blue. In a raid setting that is.

Speed is important when determing which weapon is better when they're of similar quality. When you have an ilvl gap like that just look at the bottom and top end damage. Will save you the effort of running a sim for it.

And incase you're curious. Akirus the Worm-Breaker is slightly worse than your weapon as well (for your gear). Was a buy you can be proud of if you're against farming for the pvp weapons.


I'm still unconvinced honestly. When I equip this weapon, if I'm just looking at dps as shown in the character pane, there's a difference of less than 300 dps between the sword that is a lie, and the Blade of the Fearless. I understand that that number isn't indicative of what you'd do in a raid setting, but it's the only thing I have to go on for comparison purposes.

If you're saying to look at the bottom and top end damge when comparing weapons, but the in-game tool tip is wrong, I have no idea how to figure out if it was a good buy, or just a so-so buy and my mats could have been better spent on something else or even sold outright.
85 Blood Elf Paladin
6395
If you asked me, I'd say they realised at the last moment that this will end the (potentially long) grind for Zin'rokh, Destroyer of Worlds and hence they nerfed it.

By the way, as mentioned in my earlier post and confirmed by a blue post in another (locked) thread, it will take a client patch (i.e., replacing files on our computers) to correct the tooltip. This is not to say the next time there is a client patch, the tooltip will definitely be corrected.
85 Blood Elf Paladin
3090
Is there a reason that a 365 crafted weapon is flat-out worse than a 359 non-raid weapon ( Zin'rokh, Destroyer of Worlds )?


One and one reason only, you do not have to raid to get it.


You don't have to raid to get either of them. And the time spent argument to me seems silly, but I guess that's opinion.
90 Dwarf Paladin
13855
If you asked me, I'd say they realised at the last moment that this will end the (potentially long) grind for Zin'rokh, Destroyer of Worlds and hence they nerfed it.

By the way, as mentioned in my earlier post and confirmed by a blue post in another (locked) thread, it will take a client patch (i.e., replacing files on our computers) to correct the tooltip. This is not to say the next time there is a client patch, the tooltip will definitely be corrected.


1) zin'rokh is an i359 weapon, there are plenty of other reasons for doing archaeology, zin'rokh is also BoE so it can be used by any toon on your account as well.

That logic makes no sense, especially as the PvP S9 weapons are free and a relatively easy grind.

At 3.8s it is a nice intermediate between the 3.6s i359 weapons and FL weapons.

At 3.5s it is worthless, too expensive and not a big enough upgrade to be used by either a new toon (who can go for a PvP weapon) or a normal mode raider who already has an i359 weapon.

And 2) whilst they can't change the tooltips, they can change the stats on items. It would seem much, much more sensible to have changed it back to the intended 3.8s as there is no reason at all that it should be a 3.5s weapon.

That second one is the kicker. They could have made their customers happy and they could have cancelled out all the confusion by changing the weapon. Yet for some unfathomable reason they decided to keep the weapon useless AND keep people wasting their time and getting upset with blizzard.

It seems to take a very special attitude to customer support to take the course of action that will upset the greatest possible number of customers.

Unless of course there is some sensible reason why they don't want it to be a 3.8s weapon.
85 Human Death Knight
5035


Unless of course there is some sensible reason why they don't want it to be a 3.8s weapon.




I try to give them the benefit of the doubt, but when classes/specs that value strength are the only ones dealing with this issue (and the issue is that the craftable weapon isn't markedly better than what has come before) it makes that difficult.

If casters were bemoaning a small increase in dps for similar ilvl crafted weapons, I could see a sensible reason but that isn't the case. The crafted weapons are, apparently, very good for specs that value things besides strength.

And, yes, coming on the heels of the pvp debacle and the persisting targeting bug, it seems that Blizzard is getting sloppy. When the only response is "working as intended, stop talking about it"... that doesn't help the situation. Its another situation where a little communication could have helped alleviate the problem, but that communication was not (and is not) forthcoming. We're left to just feel a little screwed and wonder why.

I saw someone advertising the sword on trade chat last night and I was struck by the fact that the seller might not even be aware that when they are selling isn't what they say they're selling. Potential buyers might not be aware of the true stats on the sword. If a seller is aware but a buyer is not, that feels like scamming to me.
90 Dwarf Paladin
13855
I saw someone advertising the sword on trade chat last night and I was struck by the fact that the seller might not even be aware that when they are selling isn't what they say they're selling. Potential buyers might not be aware of the true stats on the sword. If a seller is aware but a buyer is not, that feels like scamming to me.


Is it still scamming if the seller made it thinking it was a valuable 3.8s weapon that they could make a profit on, but are now stuck with a worthless 3.5s weapon that they are desperately trying to claw their investment back on?

There is only one party in the wrong in this whole mess and that is blizzard.
85 Human Death Knight
5035
07/27/2011 11:51 AMPosted by Zamm
I saw someone advertising the sword on trade chat last night and I was struck by the fact that the seller might not even be aware that when they are selling isn't what they say they're selling. Potential buyers might not be aware of the true stats on the sword. If a seller is aware but a buyer is not, that feels like scamming to me.


Is it still scamming if the seller made it thinking it was a valuable 3.8s weapon that they could make a profit on, but are now stuck with a worthless 3.5s weapon that they are desperately trying to claw their investment back on?

There is only one party in the wrong in this whole mess and that is blizzard.



Oh I agree. I just think how often we're told that only a small minority of players actually read the forums regularly. That means the vast majority of people in game do not know, from any official source, that the sword has an incorrect tool tip. I do not understand why that is ok. Blizzard made a mistake (it happens, they're human) but now it seems that the one mistake is being compounded.
90 Human Paladin
6495
That second one is the kicker. They could have made their customers happy and they could have cancelled out all the confusion by changing the weapon. Yet for some unfathomable reason they decided to keep the weapon useless AND keep people wasting their time and getting upset with blizzard.

It seems to take a very special attitude to customer support to take the course of action that will upset the greatest possible number of customers.
90 Draenei Paladin
6385
LAME........... I wasted 7k in mats for a lie. Fix it blizz.
90 Dwarf Paladin
13855
07/27/2011 12:19 PMPosted by Ivrae
LAME........... I wasted 7k in mats for a lie. Fix it blizz.


Another happy customer!
85 Blood Elf Paladin
3090
07/27/2011 12:19 PMPosted by Ivrae
LAME........... I wasted 7k in mats for a lie. Fix it blizz.


Ouch :(

Perhaps if the outcry is loud enough blizz will at least un-nerf the top end damage?
90 Gnome Warrior
10755
The cake is a lie



fixed*
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