Buyers beware: The 365 2h sword is 3.5 speed

24 Draenei Shaman
280
This thread is about the speed of the 2h. The OP is letting us know that the speed is 3.5, down from 3.8.

Seems like it was buffed to me.


I had the same discussion in guild chat last night with a DK who thought as you do.

This is the problem and also why it probably won't get fixed. Too many people apparently don't understand what they are buying or why it matters.

/sadface
100 Goblin Death Knight
16670
07/28/2011 10:06 AMPosted by Hauthorn
I had the same discussion in guild chat last night with a DK who thought as you do.

It is odd how people can miss the simple things; like their ability stating...

"A deadly attack that deals 150% weapon damage plus 330..."

It does not say...

"This ability is refreshed quicker based on your weapon's speed..."
Edited by Kahk on 7/28/2011 10:12 AM PDT
90 Human Paladin
6495
It is just another example of blizzard and their terrible customer service, there are an awful lot of times that their pointless, accidental, inexplicable, and sometimes even vindictive feeling nerfs would be well served to come with an explanation for just what was going through the devs heads at the time.

Being ret I think we have probably build up a considerably longer list than most, but this is just the latest in a whole series of things that leave the customers scratching their heads.
90 Dwarf Paladin
13855
This thread is about the speed of the 2h. The OP is letting us know that the speed is 3.5, down from 3.8.

Seems like it was buffed to me.


I had the same discussion in guild chat last night with a DK who thought as you do.

This is the problem and also why it probably won't get fixed. Too many people apparently don't understand what they are buying or why it matters.

/sadface


We assume that blizzard balances for average players as that is the majority of their customer base. But we also assume that blizzard themselves understand how the mechanics of their game works.

Although I guess I have to add that we should ignore a few of the ret nerfs here, WoG to a balanced PvP spec, and the ever classic explanation behind the Vindication nerf.
100 Goblin Death Knight
16670
...But we also assume that blizzard themselves understand how the mechanics of their game works.

They should just get rid of intra-weapon type speed differences. If they want to make a weapon faster, simple add haste to it instead of a different secondary stat.
90 Human Paladin
6495
I just saw this weapon in the AH.. its 3.8 speed.

Can we just stop the discussion?



Buy it.
Equip it.
Check your character sheet weapon speed or go check your armory page.
Get back to us.


edit: oh and tell us how it feels to be a victim of false advertising when you get back.
Edited by Rowly on 7/28/2011 11:17 AM PDT
85 Tauren Warrior
10635
The only thing that bothers me about it?

The horribly ugly re-used Stonecore 2h weapon model.

I'm no artist, but come on. Really?
Dont see any fury warriors complaining.

Had 2 made for my fury warrior and it is way better dps then the 2 346 weps I had.
100 Human Paladin
14600
I just saw this weapon in the AH.. its 3.8 speed.

Can we just stop the discussion?


Enjoy your 3.8 weapon. I hope you don't pay too much for it.
85 Tauren Paladin
3620
Bump for great justice!
100 Goblin Death Knight
16670
...it is way better dps then the 2 346 weps I had.

That it would be; the best 346iLevel weapon you could have had was...
Sword of the Bottomless Pit

So imagine this...
Blizzard again tinkers with the MED and drops the speed to 3.3s and the damage to ~1600-2500; this would keep this weapon in the correct overall DPS for 365iLevel. Would it still be worth the compents to replace a 346iLevel weapon?

What most people are complaining about was being told that the weapon would be slight improvement over non-heroic BWD/BOT weapons... it simply is not.

...The horribly ugly re-used Stonecore 2h weapon model.

According to the thumbnail image used it should be Fang of the Leviathan

07/28/2011 11:33 AMPosted by Drenen
Bump for great justice!

I think the Old Gods have corrupted the minds of the Blizzard Developers and have swayed them into making crap weapons so we have less chance of beating the crap outta them.

... Can we just stop the discussion?

Can you just read?
Edited by Kahk on 7/28/2011 11:41 AM PDT
100 Night Elf Warrior
7360
That it would be; the best 346iLevel weapon you could have had was...
Sword of the Bottomless Pit


The one form TB daily's would be better if he is a fury warrior. Haste = bad for a Warrior.
100 Goblin Death Knight
16670
The one form TB daily's...

My bad, I was looking at heroic dungeon drops in the 346iLevel range. You are correct that the Blade of the Fearless would be better overall because of the secondary stats.

Not to derail though... Isn't expertise a little pointless for a non-tank though since you will be attacking from behind in most cases? So haste/mastery would be better than just critical strike? I am in no way an expert, just a thought/question.
Edited by Kahk on 7/28/2011 11:51 AM PDT
I'm a bit confused, and the posts here haven't straightened it out. Note that I don't play any plate DPS classes....

I thought weapon damage was normalized for special attacks a few years back. I.e., the weapon damage component of damage was normalized as if the weapon were a certain speed.

Is this not true? Is it not for all special attacks? Because, if it is true, weapon speed shouldn't matter over a sustained fight. It would only matter in fights where you swoop in, get a single auto-attack, and dash off.

Also, people keep talking about top-end damage and damage range. That seems meaningless. It's the average damage that counts. Having more big hits doesn't help when they are balanced out by more small hits. So, am I missing something or are they?

For what it's worth, tooltips should match actual stats. That's a no-brainer.
Edited by Kathucka on 7/28/2011 11:51 AM PDT
90 Dwarf Paladin
13855
That it would be; the best 346iLevel weapon you could have had was...
Sword of the Bottomless Pit


The one form TB daily's would be better if he is a fury warrior. Haste = bad for a Warrior.


There is haste on both of them. But the jump from i346 blue to i365 epic is clearly an improvement. The problem is that there are several "free" upgrades between i346 and i365, the S9 weapons and the archaeology one.


I just saw this weapon in the AH.. its 3.8 speed.

Can we just stop the discussion?


Yet another person who probably should have read the thread before posting.

The people we assume this weapon is aimed at, normal mode raiders looking for a leg up into FL whilst waiting on an i378 drop have had the nasty surprise that the BoE weapon rather than having the ingame tooltip speed of 3.8s is actually 3.5s which means that it is a tiny, tiny, improvement over the 3.6s T11 weapons and worse than the 3.8s weapons.
100 Human Paladin
14600
I thought weapon damage was normalized for special attacks a few years back. I.e., the weapon damage component of damage was normalized as if the weapon were a certain speed.


Not all abilities are normalized. Some are. Some aren't.

<a href="http://us.battle.net/wow/en/forum/topic/2878698161?page=5">http://us.battle.net/wow/en/forum/topic/2878698161?page=5</a>

From my own post on page 5. Scroll down quite a bit.

Below are some formulas taken from EJ for calculating damage from various ret abilities. Take note of Crusader's Strike. It has been normalized to a 3.3 weapon speed. Other attacks have not been normalized and actually use the actual weapon's weapon speed in the damage calculations.

From EJ:

Autoattack
((AP/14) * Weaponspeed) + Weapon damage

Crusader Strike
(((AP/14) * 3.3 ) + Weapon damage) * 135%

Templar's Verdict
(((AP/14) * Weaponspeed) + Weapon damage) * 235%

Seal of Righteousness
Seal: Weaponspeed + 1.1% AP + 2.2% SP. Cannot crit.
Judgement: 1 + 20% AP + 32% SP.

Seal of Truth
Seal: (((AP/14) * Weaponspeed) + Weapon damage) * 15%
Edited by Kezmaefele on 7/28/2011 11:56 AM PDT
100 Goblin Death Knight
16670
I thought weapon damage was normalized for special attacks...

∙ I see larger critical hits with Zin'rokh, Destroyer of Worlds...
∙ I think they normalized auto attack speed...
∙ If damage was normalized on special attacks, what would the point of having different damages and speeds on weapons of the same iLevel?


Not all abilities are normalized. Some are. Some aren't.


Well, that explains it. Also, I think this is the real problem here. The kerfluffle about a tooltip is really just a symptom.

The whole point of normalization was to make it so that a superior weapon truly is superior. A lower-level weapon should never be better, just because of the speed on it.

It's to avoid the entire nonsense of the Wolfslayer Sniper Rifle, which was the best hunter weapon through much of Burning Crusade, even over far higher level weapons, just because it had the perfect speed on it for weaving shots. The whole primary stat thing was also to make it so that upgrade is truly an upgrade.

All specials should have normalized weapon damage. Frankly, I'm puzzled as to why they don't already. This whole problem shouldn't be happening. An upgrade shouldn't be a downgrade.
Edited by Kathucka on 7/28/2011 12:06 PM PDT
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