Explanation about ferals.

85 Night Elf Druid
9615
Guys, please keep it constructive or the thread will just get locked.
85 Orc Warrior
Woe
7985
07/22/2011 03:14 PMPosted by Zarhym
Thanks for taking time to break your feedback down, Hotted. We're keeping a close eye on Feral in PvP and understand the concern. Things currently on our radar include the Berserk duration, the Unheeded Warning trinket, and the Predatory Swiftness talent.



Looks like it will probably include a PVE nerf on top of the PVP nerf if that's all they are looking at.

As a suggestion you may want to look results of arena games that involve mages vs ferals.

My theory is that currently Frost mages are keeping ferals some what in check in 3's since their largest hindrance being the repeated frost novas with few DR's. It may be beneficial to study both the strengths/weaknesses of of ferals vs teams without frost mages as well as teams with frost mages. Since I believe there can be a fairly large gap in feral effectiveness from that one class.
81 Draenei Shaman
1180
Somebody (lot's of somebodies actually) said it earlier but I'll repeat it. Nerf Unheeded Warning to the ground. You can't base so many hard-hitting attacks on weapon damage and create a trinket that boosts weapon damage by close to 50%.

Only then can you really start looking at things like talents.


this.
85 Draenei Death Knight
4000
Then if i do try to gouge or stun them the chances of a dodge or parry are MUCH higher then most other classes.


Wait, really? In 7 pages nobody else noticed this?

Druids can't parry holmes.
81 Draenei Shaman
1180
07/22/2011 04:32 PMPosted by Jaedeth
Somebody (lot's of somebodies actually) said it earlier but I'll repeat it. Nerf Unheeded Warning to the ground. You can't base so many hard-hitting attacks on weapon damage and create a trinket that boosts weapon damage by almost close to 50%.


Then what good is that trinket going to be, i suppose just get rid of it completely.


why not? we have plenty of other trinkets and i would rather see unheeded disappear entirely than feral get nerfed because of it.

Somebody (lot's of somebodies actually) said it earlier but I'll repeat it. Nerf Unheeded Warning to the ground. You can't base so many hard-hitting attacks on weapon damage and create a trinket that boosts weapon damage by close to 50%.

Only then can you really start looking at things like talents.


this.

Laughed IRL.

Well done.


i try. /bow

This isn't the same as spells acting differently on players.

Deep Freeze checks for a permanent stun immunity. Since players are not permanently immune to stuns, it will stun. Likewise, some NPC are not permanently immune to stuns so it will stun.


yeah, i don't know what i was thinking with that post. forget i made it.
Edited by Nimbosa on 7/22/2011 4:34 PM PDT
90 Night Elf Druid
11805
Somebody (lot's of somebodies actually) said it earlier but I'll repeat it. Nerf Unheeded Warning to the ground. You can't base so many hard-hitting attacks on weapon damage and create a trinket that boosts weapon damage by close to 50%.

Only then can you really start looking at things like talents.
89 Troll Druid
13960
I'm hoping blues are still tracking this thread, because there's things you need to think of before you change every talent and damage mechanic of a Feral, again, without a second thought.

Even with our high burst we're relatively low in PvE vs classes pumping out 30 odd thousand DPS without so much as a sweat, we have positional requirements and really need to think about our internal CD's and cooldown usage to keep up.

My initial PvE burst can reach anywhere up to 36-37k, but after that, the downtime and dps ramp down is huge. It's literally up to 10,000 dps from trinket procs and cd downtime. Why? Other classes do NOT have that much of a ramp down.

I played Feral and LOVED it in Wrath of the Lich King. It was perfect for me, we had the hardest rotation, it took (moderate) skill to play, our mobility was great, we had an immunity to something (like almost every other class), but even with all of that, we weren't the most viable class to play in top end arena until I'd say.. late ICC. You're free to disagree with that, but looking at arena comps reaching 2.2k+, the drop off in feral comps was absolutely massive.

If you:

Nerf Berserk: Don't leave it at that. A nerf fixes nothing and hurts us in PvE MASSIVELY, which is something I care about. I raid 3 nights a week on US servers as a brit, that's how much I like PvE as Feral. If you are going to change the time, please change our 4 piece t12 to work differently. Instead of 2s, make it 4-5, something worthwhile.

Unheeded Warning: I can see you're not really thinking about the use of this trinket other than PvP. You have alot of ad fights in Firelands, cat bleed downtime is at an all time low. I'm having to constantly tab around and kill this that and everything, I can't even swipe until RAGNAROS! The last fight in the entire instance! Unheeded warning gives us some major damage back after all the damage we're losing from these fights. Change it to work differently on PLAYERS, not bosses. There's really no need to change our damage output in PvE.

Predatory Strikes Talent: No. You leave that alone, you already took away our mobility and Immunity to fear. Once Cyclone is off DR, that's that, you have roots which can be dispelled, hibernate which can be dispelled and maim/bash/pounce which share a DR with all other stuns and incapacitates. You change that, you may as well just say "We don't want you to be on par with high damage + cc classes, you know how a rogue can blind you for 9s, chain cc you in a smoke bomb and have insane healing? well, uh, that's fair, but 3 cyclones isn't."

Think about this very carefully before you change it. I already partially hate the Feral class because it's former play was 10,000 times better, and I have no desire to remain or respec. If the class is ruined, the game is essentially ruined for me. I've played through since Burning Crusade, I know how painfully slow you are at reacting to Feral play. We were already terribly low on damage vs almost everyone in PvE and we really don't bring anything but Faerie Fire to boss encounters now.

Just my 900000 cents. Sorry for the wall of text, but I care about my class. It's the only thing I want to play.

90 Tauren Druid
11920
07/22/2011 03:14 PMPosted by Zarhym
Thanks for taking time to break your feedback down, Hotted. We're keeping a close eye on Feral in PvP and understand the concern. Things currently on our radar include the Berserk duration, the Unheeded Warning trinket, and the Predatory Swiftness talent.


I don't PvP much just don't hurt berserk for bear form. I tank pretty much all the time. PvP nerfs have slowly been eating away at bear tanking for a bit now.

Just want to toss this out there. You can nerf feral into the ground and ill adapt and all. But I been adapting for a long time now.



07/22/2011 03:21 PMPosted by Puppydruid
Thanks for taking time to break your feedback down, Hotted. We're keeping a close eye on Feral in PvP and understand the concern. Things currently on our radar include the Berserk duration, the Unheeded Warning trinket, and the Predatory Swiftness talent.

I will miss our instant clones, we all knew it was coming.


I still miss being able to shift out of roots in PvE.
85 Tauren Druid
6055
Im a long time PVE feral player and again i see the PVP whiners complaining? Didnt ferals get beat to death with the nerf bat with the remove movement impairments and fear immunity on beserk and survival instincts a few patches ago because of PVP whiners?

Blizzard stated they wont make separate PVP and PVE trees. Everytime there is a PVP balance fix it screws PVE everytime.

We finally got some respectable dps back now in 5 man and raids (it took like 3 patches to do so i think), i actually enjoy playing my feral kitty now, now the PVP whiners wants us declawed now, good god. To be honest there isnt much left in this game that is keeping me here , If my feral druid gets beat to death with the nerf bat because of PVP whiners again,,, the unsubscribe option is looking better all the time.

proud player of the PVE druid kitty for 5 yrs plus !!!!
70 Goblin Rogue
620
I love these forums.

Nothing better than a constructive thread being turned into a flame fest in under 10 pages.

Good job everybody!
90 Night Elf Druid
11805
07/22/2011 04:31 PMPosted by Hotted
Guys, please keep it constructive or the thread will just get locked.


pulling out fictional numbers like 12k bleed ticks on 3900 resil isnt constructive.

my bleeds CRIT the level 85 target dummy with tigers fury 15% dmg for 12407.

19-23k shreds will only happen when lolunheededwarning is up.you dont specify the frequency of this dmg so it could be misinterpreted by some and they would think ZOMG 23K SHREDS ALL THE TIME.no its only when lolunheededwarning procs.

predatory swiftness can be dispelled,clone can be outranged and line of sighted,sound familar? yah cause thats the things you do to avoid other crowd control :)

nerf the trinket first then you can take a truly clear look at feral in pvp.when this trinket procs shreds hit about 35-40% harder,do something about the trinket first then if you decide you need to nerf other aspects then you can do it.but if you nerf 2 or 3 things at once youll probably just !@#$ over the spec pretty hard and youll be scrambling to give things back just like you did when you nerfed word of glory to 20sec for rets or when you nerfed enhance dmg only to give some back.or when you nerfed warriors mobility then gave them dmg then took away dmg then gave them utility then took away more dmg.ETCETCETC ETC
Edited by Formless on 7/22/2011 4:42 PM PDT
85 Gnome Rogue
10380
unheeded warning is good for rogues, op for ferals
85 Night Elf Druid
9560
Why is it that Feral Druids aren't permitted to be in a good spot, be it PvE or PvP? If we beat out the beloved pure dps specs in PvE content, NERF US INTO OBLIVION. If a Feral Druid can burst you down in 5? GCD's, NERF THEM INTO OBLIVION.

I have mainly participated in raiding, and have recently come to enjoy PvP. I thought it was over for Ferals when they took away our ability to shift out of snares and break Fears with Berserk, but much to my surprise, I was wrong.

I do have a few suggestions about what to do about our current state of "Overpowered":
1. Increase the ICD of Unheeded Warning.
2. Instate some sort of cooldown for Predatory Strikes to proc. (although instant battle rez in raid encounters is MUCH more handy (IMO) than an instant cyclone)
3. Decrease the duration of Berserk, but add a talent in that can decrease the cooldown of it and have it possibly break Fear if talented.

(If memory serves, Feral Druids are the most CC'able class in the game, give us Fear breaks again please :D)

I know those were all mentioned before, and they're pretty good ideas. I believe the damage we provide up front will likely stay, as that's what Blizzard used to bring us more in line in PvE to help us scale after they nerfed our bleeds.
Community Manager
Let's please not devolve too much into a discussion of "get your PvE/PvP balance out of my PvP/PvE game!" It's just not beneficial to anyone.

That said, we're happy with Feral performance in PvE overall. It we were to nerf Predatory Swiftness, it'd have a minor impact on PvE. Unheeded Warning is both a PvE and PvP problem. The particular mechanics of the trinket keep it disproportionately powerful for Feral druids. Nerfing Berserk would have PvE ramifications, but we'll take steps overall to make sure your dps doesn’t drop in PvE. We do everything we can to ensure we're considering all aspects of gameplay when approaching class balance.
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