A Brief History of Alterac Valley

85 Worgen Warrior
2580
Must bump thread again!
85 Goblin Rogue
4010
I know it sucks, but blizzard will never EVER read this. In the end, the lead devs and head honchos in the company are in it for money, and they make all the choices. Why spend money on somthing that is not going to clip your profits? I don't think many players are going to quit because they aren't getting to play a certain style of a certain battleground that was in the game years ago. They weigh the amount of time (money) it will take to fix, and then facter in the amount of money through subs they will lose if they don't. And in this case it's a landslide loss. AV in terms of profit it not even remotely worth fixing. They are also developing, two? new games right now. Titan and D3, so most of thier lead devs are working on them. Meaning we have second, or even third string developers. Who spend most of thier time creating new pve content to keep the game running long enough for somthing better to come out. I've played a multitude of MMO's and it's always this way. When Titan and D3 come out, Most of the devs will be working there. And we will have second rate devs. They will keep the dusty servers running and keep adding new content. Just like they let OP classes slide, but only for a few months, then nerf them, when it could have been done immidiatly. So that people will spend time rerolling, just to get nerfed, and reroll the next fotm class. All while paying $15 a month for a sub.

I should also add, I loved the old glory days of AV, Log in on a day off, and farm honor for hours and hours straight, In shadowcraft and deathmantle, and heartseeker. Blue/greens and a few epics was actually decently geared then. Farming hours and hours for my lobotomizer. It was epic and I fully support bringing back the old school AV. But we have to be honest, you wasted your time, and somone as intelligent as you already knows that.


TLDR: It's all about profit, nothing less, nothing more.



90 Human Paladin
10420
Yep, it is a business....but at least to me, this idea would be profitable for them. A revamped AV in the old style would last forever as long as they didn't ruin it again with too much tinkering, nerfing and meddling. Unlike big shiny new raids or dungeons which quickly obsolete, a battleground lasts forever. Just look at Warsong Gulch, it is still heavily used today and was created soon after the launch of the game. Is AQ40, a vanilla raid that probably took 100x longer to create then Warsong Gulch still as heavily used? Not even remotely close.

My biggest concern with the idea is providing they are even listening to this revamp, is that they'll attempt to create a brand new large scale battleground and say "if you liked the old AV then this is for you" JUST LIKE they said with Isle of Conquest which turned out to be nowhere close to old AV and a complete disappointment in a lot of people's eyes. The same was announced for Wintergrasp, which was just a quick vehicle zerg. Even though the old AV was perfect to a lot of us, I truly don't think Blizzard understands that, hence they keep giving us nonsense.

WoW is absolutely lacking a huge, epic WAR style battleground. They offer very small scale PvP with arenas, they offer small scale BGs like WSG, they offer a variety of objective based games like AB, and they offer vehicle zergs. It amazes me, as old AV was the closest thing to the very core of Warcraft games, being two large forces engaged in a massive battle while protecting your own bases. It is simply a shame they ruined that and i'll always hope one day it will return.
70 Troll Hunter
1675
The memory, much like the smell of her perfume on my pillow, for this must suffice.
90 Dwarf Priest
3670
I just discovered this thread for the first time and it is beautiful. I agree with the OP 100%.
85 Blood Elf Death Knight
6295
BRING BACK AV NAOW!
90 Dwarf Priest
3670
Although I read all of the OP's posts on page 1, I will admit that I haven't read all 18 pages of this thread before responding here. That's too much for me to read. So I apologize if I repeat something that someone else mentioned earlier.

I guess I sort of feel sad that although this thread is 18 pages, with 346 posts so far, that there's a good chance nothing may come of it. I appreciate all the hard work Foury poured into making his original posts, and I am hopeful that this thread might cause Blizzard to make Alterac Valley better. But I'm prepared to accept some hard realities.

First, as popular as these ideas are, Blizzard might think that way more people want other things. It seems like for every 100 people who want reforms to Alterac Valley, there's 1,000 people who want new raids and dungeons. Like any business, Blizzard must do what they can to maximize profits.

I'm sure Blizzard thinks that if they don't reform Alterac Valley, it's not going to cause huge numbers of subscribers to cancel their subscriptions. It's not going to cause their profits to go down a lot. It's not going to cause Blizzard to lay off any of their employees. And I'm sure everyone who works for Blizzard knows it.

On the other hand, I'm pretty sure that huge numbers of subscribers would leave if Blizzard doesn't keep making new dungeons, raids, and places to do PvE daily quests. Huge numbers of subscribers would get bored and leave if they didn't put out new expansions often enough. And I'm sure everyone who works for Blizzard knows it.

Given all that, and Blizzard's finite resources, it seems like the best way for them to maximize their profits and subscriber numbers is to spend say, maybe 90% of those finite resources on PvE, and maybe 10% on PvP. That's just not a lot for PvP.

So with what little resources they've allocated for PvP work, Blizzard seems to think they'd get more bang for their buck by introducing new BGs and World PvP zones rather than reforming existing BGs. They don't seem to mind that Wintergrasp is a ghost zone.

Given all this, it's probably best for us not to get our hopes too high. Sometimes things in life come to an end and will never come back. New things will come along that hopefully we can enjoy, and they may not necessarily be from Blizzard.

In my opinion, I think the only way we have a shot at getting what we want is if this thread hits the post cap at 500 and then a continuation thread named "A Brief History of Alterac Valley (Part 2)" is started, and then that thread also caps at 500. And then there's like 50 more continuation threads for a total of 25,000. If we have enough people in our cause so that actually happens, then maybe Blizzard would realize it's better to use some of their finite resources on reforming Alterac Valley instead of making new raids. I can't see that happening though.
60 Tauren Shaman
780
Although I read all of the OP's posts on page 1, I will admit that I haven't read all 18 pages of this thread before responding here. That's too much for me to read. So I apologize if I repeat something that someone else mentioned earlier.

I guess I sort of feel sad that although this thread is 18 pages, with 346 posts so far, that there's a good chance nothing may come of it. I appreciate all the hard work Foury poured into making his original posts, and I am hopeful that this thread might cause Blizzard to make Alterac Valley better. But I'm prepared to accept some hard realities.

First, as popular as these ideas are, Blizzard might think that way more people want other things. It seems like for every 100 people who want reforms to Alterac Valley, there's 1,000 people who want new raids and dungeons. Like any business, Blizzard must do what they can to maximize profits.

I'm sure Blizzard thinks that if they don't reform Alterac Valley, it's not going to cause huge numbers of subscribers to cancel their subscriptions. It's not going to cause their profits to go down a lot. It's not going to cause Blizzard to lay off any of their employees. And I'm sure everyone who works for Blizzard knows it.

On the other hand, I'm pretty sure that huge numbers of subscribers would leave if Blizzard doesn't keep making new dungeons, raids, and places to do PvE daily quests. Huge numbers of subscribers would get bored and leave if they didn't put out new expansions often enough. And I'm sure everyone who works for Blizzard knows it.

Given all that, and Blizzard's finite resources, it seems like the best way for them to maximize their profits and subscriber numbers is to spend say, maybe 90% of those finite resources on PvE, and maybe 10% on PvP. That's just not a lot for PvP.

So with what little resources they've allocated for PvP work, Blizzard seems to think they'd get more bang for their buck by introducing new BGs and World PvP zones rather than reforming existing BGs. They don't seem to mind that Wintergrasp is a ghost zone.

Given all this, it's probably best for us not to get our hopes too high. Sometimes things in life come to an end and will never come back. New things will come along that hopefully we can enjoy, and they may not necessarily be from Blizzard.

In my opinion, I think the only way we have a shot at getting what we want is if this thread hits the post cap at 500 and then a continuation thread named "A Brief History of Alterac Valley (Part 2)" is started, and then that thread also caps at 500. And then there's like 50 more continuation threads for a total of 25,000. If we have enough people in our cause so that actually happens, then maybe Blizzard would realize it's better to use some of their finite resources on reforming Alterac Valley instead of making new raids. I can't see that happening though.


I see where your going with this, but....it just seems it would be much easier on Blizzard to revamp AV into something like it used to be then to create another whole new BG that no one asked for or even wanted to begin with. Did we really need another AB clone like Battle for Gilneas or another flag runner in Twin Peaks that is just like WSG? No. I sure don't see people asking for more of the same that we've already been fed over and over....but I sure see an 18 page thread of people wanting old AV back.

Players have gave awesome suggestions on how to revamp AV time and time again for years. From making a "heroic" AV identical to the old version separated from the random queue, to simply modifying the current one into something more exciting. The feedback has been endless. Blizzard for some reason, just refuses to acknowledge how popular old AV was, or doesn't understand what PvP players want. I think it is a combination of the two.

The foundation is already here for AV. We have a great map, we have the mounted charges, the God summons, the infantry charges, the turning in scraps to upgrade guards....it is all here already. All that needs to be done is to take out reinforcements, add the powerful elite NPC guards and named guards back, power up the existing NPCs, and bam....old school AV is back in full force. You could even go back and add in the syndicate and trolls with some map tweaking, but those wouldn't even be totally needed.

The bottom line is, this wouldn't be a huge undertaking for Blizzard since the groundwork is already laid. We just need them to give a little effort and they'll fill a hole in their PvP system that is sorely lacking. A huge, epic BATTLE.....not another silly flag runner game or vehicle button smashing sideshow.
I Hereby Offer My Support For An AV Revamp.

WSG, AB, AV <- only battlegrounds I really enjoy. (okay, I don't really enjoy AV atm, but hey, who does?)

oh, though I didn't mind Halaa, 'twas fun.
Halaa still being the most successful world-bg imo.
65 Goblin Death Knight
190
Great post. Blizzard can count me in among the classic AV populists.

Thanks for taking the time and bringing back memories of how hard I played to get a Legionnaire title back when having an attention span still meant something in this game. There has never been anything like the original AV in any MMO anywhere. It was epic. It was awesome. It was -- like the OP said -- PvPvE. A perfect description. It's also the only BG where I cared so little about the gear rewards; they were a consolation prize to the battle itself.

Here's my $0.02:

First of all ... I'm writing this instead of playing because I got queued for the third time out of four today into the Strand of the Ancients -- a BG that the alliance always wins in my battlegroup doing exactly the same thing, every time. (When alliance attacks first, at least the battle is over quickly and I can collect loser's honor and move on.)

AV has also fallen into a similar formulaic and yawningly predictable pattern -- for years now. (The cynical change made to force the capping of bunkers still doesn't guarantee that there will even be a dozen honor kills in a battle.) You might as well make it a sanctuary so that we don't hurt one another.

The reason they converted this to another short-attention-span BG is because it's been forced into the random queue to increase the number of available players. Think about this: Blizzard ruined one of the best PvP experiences in any game by programming the game to get more people to do it.

It makes no sense at all!

I agree with the OP that AV should be removed from the random BG tic-tac-toe nonsense. And if they want to keep it in there, make a separate "classic" AV that we can queue into. I'm not holding my breath. If anything, they'll add vehicles next patch.

I'll also pose this question to Blizzard:

If you won't give loyal players who've been paying you for 10 years a chance to experience one of their favorite epic experiences, at least allow us to open up emulators. If you think it has no value, why would you care?
85 Gnome Mage
6465
Hoping to at least see a response to this. A large number of the player-base has been asking for classic AV to come back into the game for quite some time. The Mark of Honor system is gone, the time is now.
Don't spend your precious time waiting for this.

Just don't.
90 Gnome Warlock
3425
AV was fun back in the day....way back in the day.

However, I would be more than stunned if it were rolled back to the way it was.

Further, I don't think you could look back on it with the same eyes. Kinda like your first love.

Those days are gone.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
We had joy, we had fun, we had seasons in the sun.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kO4BF67pvsc&feature=related
85 Worgen Warrior
2580
Bump to the top!
85 Blood Elf Rogue
4520
(Grabs horse out of the freezer), thump thump...

No seriously i agree, if AV was even a shadow of its former glory i would throw my pet gnome in the air with glee.

More over i would add WG and TB to the mix and make a random 40 que, It makes since when you consider 40mans are kept out of RGB anyway, but i think that's just dreaming.
90 Human Hunter
12720
AV weekend coming up. Lets make it count.
100 Night Elf Druid
16525
If anyone is going to Blizzcon, please try to ask about AV if you can. :)
90 Troll Druid
3900
Thanks so much for writing this thoughtful history of AV. I agree entirely. AV can still be fun, at times; but it usually seems an accident when that happens.

Classic AV was my favorite thing ever in WoW; and in my opinion, it's also the truest thing in all of WoW to the very spirit that led to WoW's creation.

Blizzard, it's never too late to revise AV to satisfy most of the old fans, and to create new ones. (And concurrently remove it from the random queue.)
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