Low lvls

85 Tauren Warrior
7970


I didnt know you were a game designer for Blizzard.... since you're here can you fill us in on all the other issues players are reporting...since clearly you're the brains behind this operation.


Sure thing champ. What would you like answered first?
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85 Tauren Priest
6855
Umm, no? A new player, fresh out of the gate, does not have access to:
A) BoA gear
- or -
B) Gold to buy/make/enchant Twink gear


So tell me, who EVER got access to both A and B when they first started?

I have the answer even if you don't. That answer is NOBODY.

I sure didn't have access to any of that when I first started either. Let's take a trip down memory lane, shall we?

In the beginning....

I had to level to 80 to run heroics in wrath for badges for heirlooms. When Wrath was first released that was the only way to earn Heirlooms besides PvP and even with PvP you couldn't get the chest pieces, only shoulders and weapons and a trinket. I did both.

Then the Argent tournament came along and I did all those horrific dalies, first the pre-reqs. That alone took 28 days to accomplish. Yes, I know it takes 28 days, 3 for the Aspirant quests than 5 days for each of 5 race factions. That's even assuming you get exalted with all of them during the grind, if not you had to finish up your rep grind before you could unlock most of the dalies for Champion's seals. It now takes 4-5 days of doing every single one of those dalies for an heirloom.

Also JOUSTING. Perhaps there are a few people that actually like that broken vehicle combat but I don't. I hate it with a fiery passion. I still do it anyway because I like leveling alts.

Doing something I hate so I can do something I like, kinda sounds like a job for a paycheck, doesn't it?

Every single new player has the opportunity to level to 77 to start the Argent Quests just like I did. Every one of them. They don't even have to level to 80 first like I did. Every new player can grind the daily quests, earn seals and get a set of heirlooms. True, they have to be in at least a lvl 20 guild with friendly rep on at least one character to buy the helm and cloaks, but are guilds the problem too?

I can even argue getting heirlooms are easier for new players than they were for me since the Tournament is already been out and they can start it at 77. Before that patch you had to pvp or run heroics.

This game has always rewarded those that put in more time and effort to farming what you wanted. You don't see me pouting because I can't get the latest season of Arena or Raid gear. I have heirlooms and I'm content with that.

Grind your own like I did or deal. I've always wanted to say that.

*ZOMG BLIZZARD! YOU LET THE NOOBS START 3 LEVELS SOONER THAN I COULD FOR HEIRLOOMS! WHAT'S NEXT? CHEAP MOUNTS AT LEVEL 20?!?!?!?

*That was sarcasm if you failed to notice it.
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85 Tauren Priest
6855
08/08/2011 01:50 PMPosted by Azenflow
Not that you seem keen on ever doing this again


Ah, I never knew that trick. I just went and did lowbie quests to fill out my rep bar.

And you are correct. I went through it 3 times. One for each faction and the third included a great deal of wailing and gnashing of teeth. When they started offering faction transfers I gleefully moved a hunter from Horde to Alliance, begging Blizzard to take more of my money. I apparently missed the line of text stating you would lose your crusader title.....

...Hence the wailing and gnashing of teeth....whatever that means. I read it in a book somewhere.
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49 Blood Elf Paladin
760
So given that train of logic from the two posters above.... You are saying that rather than having balance at all levels of play, they should instead:

Get rid of BGs untill level 60?70? Would get rid of low level twinking and unbalanced class ability damage/healing untill all players have access to equal gear?

The wording they use would suggest they are taking the, "it was like this for me, so it should be like this for you" mentality and attitude. So by that reasoning Blizz should also:

Take away Random Dungeon Finder.... afterall, they had to actually walk, ride, or get ported to all those instances, and they never got a bag with loot in it they might be able to use if they didnt get any drops in the entire dungeon.

Get rid of Justice Point/Valor Point gear.... since they had to get their tier peices off of Bosses, and fill in the rest by drops in raids....

Put riding mounts back to 40/60 and increase the costs to how they were....I mean, c'mon, "they" had to work for that money to get them....

I could go on, but clearly the point is made.... C'mon Blizzard... roll back all these changes you made to make things roughly equal for the casual and hardcore players.... clearly those of us thinking we were playing a game for leisure are in the wrong.
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85 Tauren Priest
6855
08/08/2011 02:00 PMPosted by Amodeus
The wording they use would suggest they are taking the, "it was like this for me, so it should be like this for you" mentality and attitude.


Funny, I think I brushed upon that point....

*ZOMG BLIZZARD! YOU LET THE NOOBS START 3 LEVELS SOONER THAN I COULD FOR HEIRLOOMS! WHAT'S NEXT? CHEAP MOUNTS AT LEVEL 20?!?!?!?

*That was sarcasm if you failed to notice it.


Oh, I guess I did. How strange.


You will note I mentioned nothing of the sort about what you believe me to be 'suggesting'. I have zero issues with the Tournament being introduced and the ability to gain Heirlooms solo.

As I said, the only way you could get them at first was badges that you could only gain in heroics or Naxx. Both required groups.

I also mentioned that you don't even have to be level capped like we did. If the original trend of earning heirlooms had persisted into Cata we would have to be 85 and run Cata heroics. Level 77 isn't much to ask for in my humble bovine opinion.

It is -far- easier to gain heirlooms now than it was. You can solo every one except the guild 'looms and I'm totally ok with that. Farm your heart out. What I don't care for is all the opinions that Heirloom wearers must be shuffled off to a corner or they be given away like candy in the name of 'balance'. You may as well just have new players have an entire set of gear from level one that they never have to replace until they hit level cap.
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85 Tauren Priest
6855
Battleground rating 0
Honorable kills 255


Oh Gods, please don't ever look at my stats.

I'm awful.
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49 Blood Elf Paladin
760
I never made the suggestion that heriloom wearers must be segregated or treated differently. However, you made the assertion that just because you had it harder, everyone else should have it just as hard.

What the other poster suggested about retooling gear thats already in the game, and making it PvP oriented makes good sense. Players, new or old, twinked or fresh... would still have to farm the honor to buy that gear.... so same amount of work, for same reward. Those rocking BoAs (like myself) would still be superior overall... but those without would have a chance to gain gear that is usable at their level, for the work they put into it (BGs) and see immediate results to remain competitive as they level or play through the brackets.

Nowhere was it said that we should ban BoAs or limit BoA involvement in low level BGs.... but you have to be a complete moron to think that they don't provide a severely unfair advantage to those without access to them. We see no problem with BoAs in PvE because theres no curve against not using them. You can tank, heal, dps while leveling in dungeons just fine... but you cannot competitively compete while leveling in BGs without them. Offering belts, bracers, rings and a weapon here or there throughout the brackets would at least give those new players something to work for while doing it.
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49 Blood Elf Paladin
760
So given that train of logic from the two posters above.... You are saying that rather than having balance at all levels of play, they should instead:

Get rid of BGs untill level 60?70? Would get rid of low level twinking and unbalanced class ability damage/healing untill all players have access to equal gear?

The wording they use would suggest they are taking the, "it was like this for me, so it should be like this for you" mentality and attitude. So by that reasoning Blizz should also:

Take away Random Dungeon Finder.... afterall, they had to actually walk, ride, or get ported to all those instances, and they never got a bag with loot in it they might be able to use if they didnt get any drops in the entire dungeon.

Get rid of Justice Point/Valor Point gear.... since they had to get their tier peices off of Bosses, and fill in the rest by drops in raids....

Put riding mounts back to 40/60 and increase the costs to how they were....I mean, c'mon, "they" had to work for that money to get them....

I could go on, but clearly the point is made.... C'mon Blizzard... roll back all these changes you made to make things roughly equal for the casual and hardcore players.... clearly those of us thinking we were playing a game for leisure are in the wrong.



Yes clearly in the wrong.

Hey Buddy,

Time to get to work like the rest of us...

Battleground rating 0
Honorable kills 255


Thats clearly only because I only have half my abilities and no resilience... /shrug
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86 Orc Rogue
10165
So given that train of logic from the two posters above.... You are saying that rather than having balance at all levels of play, they should instead:

Get rid of BGs untill level 60?70? Would get rid of low level twinking and unbalanced class ability damage/healing untill all players have access to equal gear?

The wording they use would suggest they are taking the, "it was like this for me, so it should be like this for you" mentality and attitude. So by that reasoning Blizz should also:

Take away Random Dungeon Finder.... afterall, they had to actually walk, ride, or get ported to all those instances, and they never got a bag with loot in it they might be able to use if they didnt get any drops in the entire dungeon.

Get rid of Justice Point/Valor Point gear.... since they had to get their tier peices off of Bosses, and fill in the rest by drops in raids....

Put riding mounts back to 40/60 and increase the costs to how they were....I mean, c'mon, "they" had to work for that money to get them....

I could go on, but clearly the point is made.... C'mon Blizzard... roll back all these changes you made to make things roughly equal for the casual and hardcore players.... clearly those of us thinking we were playing a game for leisure are in the wrong.



Yes clearly in the wrong.

Hey Buddy,

Time to get to work like the rest of us...

Battleground rating 0
Honorable kills 255


lolz He's level 39. How many Rated BGs do you expect him to participate in?
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49 Blood Elf Paladin
760
08/08/2011 02:42 PMPosted by Rekcarc
However, you made the assertion that just because you had it harder, everyone else should have it just as hard.


Wouldn't that be the balance you are looking for? LMAO

sigh.


The IMbalance comes when those with advantages unobtainable by others in the same level of play make that level of play undesirable, unfair, or unattractive. Since they won't get rid of low lvl BGs to make it ultimately balanced (by taking away low level twinking altogether), then the only other solution is to at least give the new/casual players a chance to, at the very least, get equivilent oppurtunity to be competitive.

This is strictly looking at gear by the way, ability scaling is another matter entirely.
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49 Blood Elf Paladin
760
You can earn them just as easily as we had to when we started out. Actually, when I started out they didn't have them.

I'm not sure I understand the unfair advantage if you can get them just as I can?

It takes work, do your time like everyone else. That is Balance, and Blizzard has made damn sure it was fair all the way around it.

Equal opportunity.


So we're back to the solution that we should just make BGs/PvP unavailable till level 70?80?

If a new player wants to play in PvP, clearly he should wait untill he has leveled one toon up enough to buy the gear to be as competitive as others.... but that kinda defeats its own purpose since we should get rid of low level BGs altogether...and by then he should be working on his 85 honor gear... not knowing how to play his toon in PvP. Then we can watch the elitists here change tactics by QQing that ppl dont know how to play their class in PvP.... well they wouldnt since they could only start PvPing near end-game anyway....



08/08/2011 02:47 PMPosted by Rekcarc
None, because I expect him to be lazy like most everyone else that complains they aren't getting a hand-out


No one mentioned a handout....anywhere...in any shape or form. There is already gear in game, right now... that is spread throughout low level brackets, bought WITH honor. All that was suggested was that they took that same gear, re-itemized it for current class/specs with PvP stats. They did that with the PvP heirlooms, why can't/shouldn't they do it for that very same gear? It would still take honor to buy, players would still have to work for them...they would just be a bit better than they are now, narrowing (not eliminating) the gear factor in the imbalance. That is not a handout, seeing as the gear is available now in the exact same manner, it was only suggested to be readjusted.
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