A Different Model for Druid Tree Form Healing

85 Night Elf Druid
4880
Before you walk away or spam about how I'm "beating a dead horse", please read this entire post. I assure you its not the same thing we've seen 1000 times before.

As some of you are aware, druid healing got switched up a bit in Cataclysm with the conversion of our permenant Tree Form in the temporary buff-spell Tree of Life (ToL). I certainly agree that druids needed more Emergency cooldowns, and ToL very nicely fills that niche; but its not really a form, and no amount of calling it that will make it so.

I would like to see a permenant Tree Form brought back to druids, BUT I want it have have an actual effect, rather than just be a cosmetic change. I think a good option could be having one form slightly better at tank or single-target healing, and one form better at multi-target or raid healing. One way to accomplish this is to give the druid some new spells, and limit their spell selection slightly in both forms.
Blizzard took one great step forward with the modification of its talent-tree model, so that rather than having a flat healing buff on the Tree Form, we can now have it matched to the Restoration spec instead. This means that we can give druids back a tree form, without having Boomkin healing be OP.

Resto druids where one of the only specs that did not recieve any new spells in Cataclysm, because we already had the second-greatest number of different healing spells in the game (only Holy Priests had more).
The issue was that most of these spells where HoTs; so it was like having your entire toolkit filled with nothing but rolls of duct tape. I think that Blizzard did a good job reworking most of the druid healing spells, and that they have good synergy, with only a few small gaps. But that doesn't mean there isn't room for inovation, so I have 2 new spells for consideration:

Invigorate: 1.5 Second Cast, 35% of base mana
Heals the target for 3800 to 4400. The targets skin becomes as tough as bark, reducing all physical damage taken by 2% for 8 seconds, stacking up to 3 times.

Enliven: Instant Cast, 24% of base mana
Heals the target and all targets (max 5) within 10 yards for 500 every second for 4 seconds. When the HoT is finished, Enliven jumps to a party or raid member within 20 yards. Jumps up to 2 times. Enliven can only be on one target at a time.

Edit: some people have pointed out that druids already have powerful AOE heals, so for your consideration I offer Enliven, v2.0
Enliven: 3 Second Cast, 40% of base mana
Heals up to 4 other targets within 20 yards of the druid for 3200-3800. Also restores 5 rage, 8 focus energy or runic power, or .5% maximum mana.


For now, I'll have our caster/humanoid form be the tank-healer, and I would replace Regrowth with Invigorate, which cannot be cast in tree form. That leaves the Tree Form as the raid/multi-target healer, and I would replace Healing Touch with Enliven, which cannot be cast in humanoid form.

The current ToL spell remains as it is, except that it allows ALL healing spells to be cast. I think it should also empower tranquility, allowing it to heal 2 additional targets and for movement to not interupt channeling (theres nothing quite as annoying to a druid as to blow Tranq and then have the boss drop a pool of molten death right at your feet).

So, to summarize, the Humanoid forms basic healing spell selection looks like this:
Lifebloom, Rejuvanation, Nourish, Healing Touch, and Invigorate
and the Tree forms spell selection is:
Lifebloom, Rejuvanation, Regrowth, Nourish, and Enliven
both have acces to: Swiftmend, WildGrowth, Tranquility, Innervate, damage spells, etc.
Both forms are perfectly capable of Tank or Multi-target healing, picking one or the other just happens to give you a little boost, sort of like a Priests Chakra mechanic.

I'm posting this here, instead of the druid forum, because I know healing in raids is a multi-person task, and I'd love to hear some feedback from other healing classes as well. I know a few of you have your own issues, but druids are the class that I know best, so thats what I'm focused on.
Edited by Drelnu on 9/14/2011 10:49 AM PDT
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85 Tauren Druid
0
.........i just want my tree back
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Before you walk away or spam about how I'm "beating a dead horse", please read this entire post. I assure you its not the same thing we've seen 1000 times before.


Oh, I bet it will be.

08/12/2011 07:27 AMPosted by Drelnu
I would like to see a permenant Tree Form brought back to druids, BUT I want it have have an actual effect, rather than just be a cosmetic change.


YUUUUP.

08/12/2011 07:27 AMPosted by Drelnu
so I have 2 new spells for consideration


A terrible direct heal that costs a ludicrous amount and SUPER WILD GROWTH. I guess you're right, I never heard that what Resto druids really need is more than twice as much wild growth spam in raids. I think you're onto something. We should make lifebloom an aoe heal as well.
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85 Night Elf Druid
4880
08/12/2011 08:44 AMPosted by Kranian
Oh, I bet it will be.

I was just trying to discourage people from thinking this was a cry to bring back tree-form as the only healing option.

08/12/2011 08:44 AMPosted by Kranian
A terrible direct heal that costs a ludicrous amount

It was modeled on Regrowth, which has a similar mana-to-healing ratio. I dropped off a little healing since it puts a damage reduction buff on the target. If you think the values need a little work, suggest what needs tweaking and in which direction.

08/12/2011 08:44 AMPosted by Kranian
and SUPER WILD GROWTH.

I was actually trying to model it on Prayer of Mending. I like the jump-to-another player mechanic, which never seems to get alot of attention.

08/12/2011 08:44 AMPosted by Kranian
I think you're onto something.

Thanks!
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08/12/2011 08:50 AMPosted by Drelnu
It was modeled on Regrowth

Which is why it's terrible. Regrowth needs 6 talent points spent on it to be usable in any situation outside the most dire. This offers the same lackluster healing at the same ludicrous mana cost (and I would assume talent cost if you update it to benefit from everything regrowth benefits from) and has the extra special penalty of requiring a cast every 8 seconds to maintain and 3 spammed ones in the beginning to ramp up the stack. Conceptually, burning huge amounts of mana to maintain a small buff (that is still weaker than inspiration at a lower duration) on the tank to help reduce healing needed is completely counter-intuitive.

08/12/2011 08:50 AMPosted by Drelnu
I was actually trying to model it on Prayer of Mending.

Prayer of mending is not a bouncing circle of healing. If you were trying to do a similar kind of spell, it would make more sense for a short duration rapid hot (like a 3 stack lifebloom in strength and duration) that bounces when it expires instead of blooming. That is, of course, assuming druids need any more help raid healing (Hint: the only real weakness of druids is fast, reactive heals to deal with random burst damage. WG 2: Electric Boogaloo does not help that).
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85 Dwarf Shaman
2355
I'd like to see tree of life come but see no need in giving druids more powerful AOE. They could use something like the other spell in PVP I suppose.
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85 Worgen Druid
7280
I like this idea, reminds me of the two chakras that holy priests have. Maybe if you do this, lower the power on AOE heals so if they decide to go into their AOE side, they wont be ridiculously overpowered.
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86 Draenei Priest
7770
08/12/2011 10:47 AMPosted by Arrus
I like this idea, reminds me of the two chakras that holy priests have. Maybe if you do this, lower the power on AOE heals so if they decide to go into their AOE side, they wont be ridiculously overpowered.


[Edit]To better clarify my point about druids basically getting chakra through OP's suggestion:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=umDr0mPuyQc
Edited by Pleasurizer on 8/12/2011 11:09 AM PDT
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85 Night Elf Druid
4880
That is, of course, assuming druids need any more help raid healing (Hint: the only real weakness of druids is fast, reactive heals to deal with random burst damage. WG 2: Electric Boogaloo does not help that).


08/12/2011 10:47 AMPosted by Arrus
I like this idea, reminds me of the two chakras that holy priests have. Maybe if you do this, lower the power on AOE heals so if they decide to go into their AOE side, they wont be ridiculously overpowered.


I was trying to come up with some new ideas for healing spells, and its tricky because druids already have quite a variety. The fast expensive spell that replaces Regrowth basically replaced the HoT portion with a stacking damage reduction (i.e. Barkskin), since that seems like it would be useful for single-target healing.
But I admit that druids already have very strong AOE/Raid heals, and I was struggling somewhat to come up with somthing else beneficial. Shields are out, I think; but I did like the "bouncing spell" idea from Prayer of Mending. I also considered something with a channeled effect, but everything I came up with was basically some version of "Mini-Tranquility".

If some one else would like to suggest an idea I'm always happy to get good feedback, but I'll try to come up with something else as well.

Since I'm replacing the quick-casting single target heal with a slightly better version intended more for single-target, let me try to redesign enliven so it more similar to Healing Touch, the spell its itended to replace.
Enliven: 3 Second Cast, 40% of base mana
Heals up to 4 other targets within 20 yards of the druid for 3200-3800. Also restores 5 rage, 8 focus energy or runic power, or .5% maximum mana.

Yes, I realize this makes it a powerful spell, but its an effect that I don't think is mimicked anywhere else, which I like. If people think this is OP, one easy to correct that is to just jack up the Mana cost to whatever point it becomes unsustainable to spam this spell.
Edited by Drelnu on 9/14/2011 10:24 AM PDT
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Yes, I realize this makes it a powerful spell, but its an effect that I don't think is mimicked anywhere else, which I like. If people think this is OP, one easy to correct that is to just jack up the Mana cost to whatever point it becomes unsustainable to spam this spell.


This would go against blizzards raiding policy of bring the player not the class.

This also has to be the most overpowered and unbalanced spell suggestion I have ever heard.

Also druid healing is fine why do you say we need help?
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22 Tauren Shaman
190
Limiting spells to a form never works out the way you think it would.

They tried the same thing in when they first put Tree Form in TBC and I mean the one where you could only use HoTs and had a 80% movement speed. It got scrapped since they had to homogenize a lot of the buffs and it was too restricting on movement fights.

Eventually it became what it was in Wotlk and you just had to stay in Tree Form (cosmetic) for 10% healing.

Your idea is fine, but either caster or tree would be better than the other by theorycrafting and the lesser one would not be used. The same thing already happens with Chakra where it's much better to use Sanctuary 90% of the time because Holy Priests are better at raid healing than tank healing.
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08/18/2011 06:07 AMPosted by Drelnu
Since I'm replacing the quick-casting single target heal with a slightly better version intended more for single-target, let me try to redesign enliven so it more similar to Healing Touch, the spell its itended to replace.


Why don't you just change this whole thread to "Why don't we make Tree of Life make all druid heals AoE?"
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85 Worgen Druid
8255
08/12/2011 08:39 AMPosted by Mombur
.........i just want my tree back
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85 Night Elf Druid
4880
08/18/2011 06:26 AMPosted by Bemith
This would go against blizzards raiding policy of bring the player not the class.

I'm focusing on druids here, but I wouldn't mind sharing the effect, if they also tacked something similar on to other classes spells. Druids, however, are what I know best, so thats what I'm focusing on, and I was trying to find something new and fun.

08/18/2011 06:26 AMPosted by Bemith
This also has to be the most overpowered and unbalanced spell suggestion I have ever heard.

Ooookay....well, do you think its balancable at all, if I move values up and down? Or should I just scrap the whole concept and try to come up with something else?

08/18/2011 06:26 AMPosted by Bemith
Also druid healing is fine why do you say we need help?

I never said we do. I can heal fine in most cases, but I felt this would make the class more fun. If I where a crazy man, I might even suggest a slight nerf to overall druid healing values so the other classes dont scream about how we beat them on the meters all the time, but this suggestion generally gets enough hate already without making even more people mad at me. Plus, I haven't raided much this x-pac, so all I have to go on is heresay at this point.

08/18/2011 06:27 AMPosted by Lavarinth
Limiting spells to a form never works out the way you think it would.

Druids have one of the most limited ability/spell selections in the game, due to the fact that we have an entirely different set in each of Cat, Bear, and boomkin. In each case, you lose something (healing, usually) to gain other abilities, such as melee damage, damage reduction, and ranged magical damage. The idea is that its a trade-off; you give up one specilization to focus on another.
If you want to look outside the druid class, Warriors seem to make it work with their stances.

08/18/2011 06:27 AMPosted by Lavarinth
Eventually it became what it was in Wotlk and you just had to stay in Tree Form (cosmetic) for 10% healing.

Thats because the ONLY thing the tree-form provided in Wrath was a healing bonus; there was no reason to NOT be in tree form unless you where attempting to add your (pitiful) DPS to the fight. As I said in my OP, Blizz has now attached the healing bonus to the spec instead, so that you can have both forms be equally viable for healing.
Also, both forms still have access to Lifebloom, Nourish, Rejuvanation, and Swiftmend, the core spells for each function. The idea is that Caster and Tree form will be most similar, with just a few minor differences for function, flavor, and fun.

08/18/2011 06:27 AMPosted by Lavarinth
Your idea is fine, but either caster or tree would be better than the other by theorycrafting and the lesser one would not be used. The same thing already happens with Chakra where it's much better to use Sanctuary 90% of the time because Holy Priests are better at raid healing than tank healing.

If they have the option, raids like to have druids raid heal (or so I hear) but that doesnt mean they CAN'T tank heal. If anything, I would hope that this change might make druids MORE attractive as tank healers, allowing them to break out of their raid-healing stereotype, just like Blizz gave paladins a whole bunch of AOE tools to break them out of the single-target only mindset.
Edited by Drelnu on 8/18/2011 7:13 AM PDT
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85 Night Elf Druid
4880
08/18/2011 06:50 AMPosted by Kranian
Why don't you just change this whole thread to "Why don't we make Tree of Life make all druid heals AoE?"


Ok, druids have a reputation as good raid/multi-target/AOE healers, but it seems to me we're pretty much on target with everyone else when it comes to actual spells.

Druids- Wildgrowth (on cooldown), talented Swiftmend (also on cooldown)
Shaman- Chain Heal, Soothing Rain
Priest, holy- Circle of Healing (on cooldown), Prayer of Healing, Sanctuary (optional)
Priest, discipline- Prayer of Healing, Smite via talents (Atonement)
Paladin- Light of Dawn, Holy Radiance (1 minute cooldown)

The only area where we tend more towards AOE/Multi-target is in our emergency cooldowns, with both Tranq and ToL favoring group healing, but even that isn't universal, since disc priests get Power Word: Barrier, and a Paladin's Guardian of Ancient Kings includes AOE healing.
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08/18/2011 07:47 AMPosted by Drelnu
The only area where we tend more towards AOE/Multi-target is in our emergency cooldowns, with both Tranq and ToL favoring group healing, but even that isn't universal, since disc priests get Power Word: Barrier, and a Paladin's Guardian of Ancient Kings includes AOE healing.


Except Wildgrowth >all other single cast low cooldown aoe heals (not burst but over all healing).
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08/18/2011 07:12 AMPosted by Drelnu
I would hope that this change might make druids MORE attractive as tank healers,


Giving them more AoE healing won't make them more attractive as tank healers, nor will giving them a terrible flash heal with a worthless buff.

08/18/2011 07:47 AMPosted by Drelnu
but it seems to me we're pretty much on target with everyone else when it comes to actual spells.


If it wasn't clear enough that you knew nothing about druid healing, this cements it. Comparing smite to wild growth is about as pointless an exercise as I can think of.

08/18/2011 07:47 AMPosted by Drelnu
The only area where we tend more towards AOE/Multi-target is in our emergency cooldowns, with both Tranq and ToL favoring group healing, but even that isn't universal, since disc priests get Power Word: Barrier, and a Paladin's Guardian of Ancient Kings includes AOE healing.


You heard it here first, folks. Druids aren't AoE healers because Paladins get Guardian of Ancient Kings.
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4 Night Elf Druid
0
Why don't you just change this whole thread to "Why don't we make Tree of Life make all druid heals AoE?"


Ok, druids have a reputation as good raid/multi-target/AOE healers, but it seems to me we're pretty much on target with everyone else when it comes to actual spells.

Druids- Wildgrowth (on cooldown), talented Swiftmend (also on cooldown)


Seriously? You lost me here. WG is so far and away better than any other classes AoE spell it is silly. Druids are OP right now. You shouldn't make posts brings attention to them, you should hide in the corner and be happy right now. The only thing resto druids need right now is some sort of self cd(not healing spell) for pvp. Otherwise they are god mode.
Edited by Cybrana on 8/18/2011 8:02 AM PDT
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85 Night Elf Druid
4880
08/18/2011 07:54 AMPosted by Kranian
Giving them more AoE healing won't make them more attractive as tank healers, nor will giving them a terrible flash heal with a worthless buff.

Granted, Regrowth is both less powerful and more expensive than other classes comparable fast-expensive heal spells, but I think thats because they need to rely on it less. I figured that a direct heal, with a buffing benefit for repeated use, would be preferable to a direct heal/HoT combo for tank healing. I purposfully left the buff small, so that people would cry "But then druids will be required for tank healing in raids!"
My goal is NOT to make druids better overall than other classes, or better tank healers than say, a paladin, just to make druid caster-form healing better for tank or single target than druid tree-form healing.

Besides, most people seem to think Druids are to OP already, so I didn't see alot of value in significantly buffing their flash-heal.

If it wasn't clear enough that you knew nothing about druid healing, this cements it. Comparing smite to wild growth is about as pointless an exercise as I can think of.

I'm sorry, but you're wrong; I know lots about druid healing. I do admit, though, that I know very little about other healing styles, particulary Disc priests, who I have never played. All I was doing was listing the spells capable of AOE healing; I really hadn't intended to do a full-on analysis of every healing spell and its counterparts.

You heard it here first, folks. Druids aren't AoE healers because Paladins get Guardian of Ancient Kings.

Don't put words in my mouth. All I was doing was pointing out that a druid is not the only class capable of AOE/multi-target healing, and in sheer numbers of rapidly usable (not on cooldown) spells, we have about the same.

08/18/2011 08:01 AMPosted by Cybrana
Seriously? You lost me here. WG is so far and away better than any other classes AoE spell it is silly.

Spell----------------------Mana Cost----------------Healing----------------Limit on Casting
Wild Growth-------------27% base mana-------------3700x5----------------8 sec cooldown
Circle of Healing---------21% base mana-------------2400x5---------------10 sec cooldown
Chain Heal---------------20% base mana-------------2215x4 (avg)---------2.5 sec cast time
Light of Dawn------------0%---------------------------1800x5-----------------3 HP charges

Its hard to compare them all directly, but I see WG's increased throughput being balanced by increased cost, as well as a cooldown, and the fact that its a HoT, not a direct heal.
Perhaps you can educate me on why exactly every other class sucks at AOE healing compared to druids?

08/18/2011 08:01 AMPosted by Cybrana
The only thing resto druids need right now is some sort of self cd(not healing spell) for pvp. Otherwise they are god mode.

I don't PvP with the druid, so I'm not going to touch that hornets nest.
Otherwise, my goal was to design something that gave druids a tree form and a reason to use it, but also a reason to not use it, under certain conditions.
My goal is to make druids choose one slight specialization over another, without making the whole class so specialized that they can't perfrom any other role (like druids in BC, or Paladins in Wrath).
For a Paragon (or whoever is tops on your server, if you prefer) and has their pick of any class for any role, they might favor having druids to keep their raid alive, and give some one else the tank spot. But for other guilds, who have fewer options, won't end up stuck because the only people who showed up tonight where a holy priest and a druid. In fact, that seems like it would be directly in line with Blizzards "bring the player, not the class" philosophy.
Edited by Drelnu on 8/18/2011 8:55 AM PDT
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90 Human Warrior
10380
I would like to see a permenant Tree Form brought back to druids, BUT I want it have have an actual effect, rather than just be a cosmetic change.


Isn't this why they removed it in the first place? I mean, they removed tree form because it was just a healing increase and in the grand scheme of things, it doesn't matter. If you make your heals do 90% throughput and then get the additional 10% throughput by being in tree form, then no difference is made between being out of tree form and doing 100% throughput other than now you are required to be in tree form all the time.

One way to accomplish this is to give the druid some new spells, and limit their spell selection slightly in both forms.

This is another reason why they wanted tree form removed. Limiting the spells you could cast is not something they liked.

I was trying to come up with some new ideas for healing spells, and its tricky because druids already have quite a variety.

Yes, they do, so why do they need more? On top of that, what role is not being currently filled by their current spells?

If they have the option, raids like to have druids raid heal (or so I hear) but that doesnt mean they CAN'T tank heal.

Probably because most raids are filled with paladins and shaman, while arguable on par somewhat with regard to single target healing, are significantly under the curve in aoe healing utility. (I'm saying their single target healing, not the current !@#$ty throughput of shaman all together.) In other words, the first choice of tank healing goes to the classes that suck at aoe healing.

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