How To Implement Cross-Realm Raid Finder

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90 Night Elf Druid
8780
Would baradin hold be in it and Achavon or w-e its called too O.o, btw why do i have to do a raid to get a justice helmet :\ wouldn't it be better if it only applied to valor???
08/16/2011 03:36 PMPosted by Dedicance
Would baradin hold be in it and Achavon or w-e its called too O.o, btw why do i have to do a raid to get a justice helmet :\ wouldn't it be better if it only applied to valor???


You would have to do the raid that is required to earn the helmet. Nobody is debating that. This thread is all about accessibility to content.

Which would you rather have, a dungeon grind to get jp's and buy a tier helm? Or a way to access the raid that drops that tier helm without having to wade through the slop in trade chat or having to apply to a guild as if you were getting a visa to move to a foreign country, and be able to earn it on your own schedule? And be able to roll an alt and do MC40. And be able to have a awesome in-game voice chat system. And be able to do whatever these people are wanting to do with Real-ID. And be able to get better as a player and become more skilled by having access to the hardest content whenever you want.

This would kill oh so many birds with one single stone.
Edited by Ricardozara on 8/16/2011 3:46 PM PDT
62 Worgen Death Knight
250
It seems like a well-thought out concept, and I'd like to see it implemented. However, knowing how the LFD population is....

/ugh
/fear
/hide in corner
90 Worgen Warrior
10160
I know the feeling
some days i wish I had a universal Ctrl+Z button

"Aww whens the baby due?"
"What baby??"
Ctrl+Z
Ctrl+Z
Ctrl+Z!!


I want Ctr+Z; Ctr+C; Ctr+V and most importantly: the backwards in Word
We have some plans. They're good plans.


People already cry about LFD for 5 mans. LFD Raids will just multiply those things.

They cry they cant kick people after a certain number of times
They cry they have to wait 45 mins for a group
They cry that the 5 mans are too hard
They cry because people arent pulling their weight

Cross server raids will be the end of WoW. It will just be the worst players thrown together where they can flame each other and ninja everything they can just to shard it if necessary.


All of those concerns are addressed in the original post.

EDIT: Actually the queue time isn't. To be honest, I see it as a non-issue. There really isn't any way to fix it. I think the queue times could get hairy if you're queuing for a 40 or 25 man encounter, but 10 mans I'm not really convinced would be all that bad of a wait. There's plenty of people that want to do the content.

Even if they are really long, so what? That would just encourage people that don't want to wait to run with people in their guild or their server, or group with others that are wanting to do the same content and "make new friends" on their server.
Edited by Ricardozara on 8/16/2011 3:52 PM PDT
90 Goblin Shaman
8445
08/14/2011 07:35 AMPosted by Enyalois
As to the idea that this bother's the Hardcores.... the question would be WHY is this bothering them... this is not affecting thier character's stat's or abilities in the slightest.... the only possibility is that it may hurt thier "Pride" that they are the top rank and by being top rank they are oppressing those under them.


I've heard this argument from you a couple of times in the last few days (I remember your quote). How are the hardcores oppressing us? If anything, the hardcores are the ones that give us the tactics to get through these bosses.

Just because someone can raid and you- for whatever reason- cannot does not mean we are elitist or somehow oppressing you. You have as much right to raid as everyone else. If you chose not to do so, and are whining about it- you are the one restricting yourself. You have full right to get together with some of your friends and try the content. Or- as I said in the other thread (and thanks for completely ignoring my posts), what's stopping you from finding people in your situation that have a similar schedule as you?

As for the OP, I think they are good suggestions. Though the only thin that could be argued is that- for example- T11 was designed for average 346 gear in mind (since they were out before the Zul's were implemented)- so requiring 351 is kind of meh. Now on the topic of actually reading the dungeon finder- ok- but that only gives a basic of what abilities the boss does, you would still want to explain the fight. On the kick feature, when I pug- I give a fight 3 tries- if we are wiping to the same thing after 3 tries- it isn't happening.

You have to remember it isn't always one particular person that's at fault with these fights. It could be any number of things. Now if that 1 person always seems to be the first to die, then yeah- I could see where is could be a detriment.
Edited by Jujubiju on 8/16/2011 3:53 PM PDT
90 Human Paladin
8535
I'm not sure if this has been talked about in this thread as I didn't read all of the posts, but perhaps having cross-realm guilds would engender a better sense of community as well as helping implement the LFR a bit better? Or perhaps classify them as something else... maybe call them Fraternities or Orders? They could be made up of guilds over a number of realms with each realm having only one chapter. Something to think about!

08/16/2011 03:50 PMPosted by Jujubiju
Though the only thin that could be argued is that- for example- T11 was designed for average 346 gear in mind (since they were out before the Zul's were implemented)- so requiring 351 is kind of meh.


And peoples' oh-so-precious Trade chat pugs are requiring 360. I'm actually being quite lenient.

08/16/2011 03:50 PMPosted by Jujubiju
Now on the topic of actually reading the dungeon finder- ok- but that only gives a basic of what abilities the boss does, you would still want to explain the fight.


Well if you're watching a video or two of the fight (which I think most people are, just look at how many views Tankspot gets on YouTube), coupled with the Dungeon Journal, coupled with the ilvl requirement, it really isn't so far fetched to expect that it could be a successful tool. Please note how I have stressed all throughout this thread the necessity to be "willing to work for it". That means willing to ask questions, watch videos, read guides, learn the fights. I know you can't enforce that for everybody, but even if you end up carrying the occassional bad, chances are they will learn it eventually, just like in all the rest of the dungeons.

On the kick feature, when I pug- I give a fight 3 tries- if we are wiping to the same thing after 3 tries- it isn't happening.


Then consider yourself free to kick whoever the problem is on only the second try and they will be replaced fairly rapidly with somebody that can probably get the job done.
85 Human Death Knight
8605
This will just not work all together. The lfg finder is worst enough and has made people more lazier than before it was released. Having a lfr finder will be horrible especially if its cross-server. You wont know what the other players gear is like and if they know the fight all together. Also it will pretty much make the new guilds not able to get their guilds upto the top like other guilds on their server because you would do guild runs for raids and they will probably start with doing the first three raids then once they are geared enough they can go into the firelands and try and take on that. And if it also effects raids like the firelands then trade chat would just have spam from goldsellers and the odd guy who is trying to sell some gear that he made/earnt. This is a huge leap but not a leap that blizzard should take.
08/16/2011 04:29 PMPosted by Lorinal
You wont know what the other players gear is like and if they know the fight all together.


l2r http://us.battle.net/wow/en/forum/topic/2973023441

08/16/2011 04:29 PMPosted by Lorinal
Also it will pretty much make the new guilds not able to get their guilds upto the top like other guilds on their server


Quite the contrary. Smaller guilds would have just as much of a chance now to get progression and exp. It would totally level the guild playing field.

08/16/2011 04:29 PMPosted by Lorinal
And if it also effects raids like the firelands


Very first point. http://us.battle.net/wow/en/forum/topic/2973023441 l2r.
90 Blood Elf Warlock
15220
08/16/2011 12:56 PMPosted by Firestyle
LFD is the very reason you can't raid - because you aren't meeting people and making friends in 5 mans.
I don't have time or care enough about this game to be on with any sort of regular basis. Sometimes I'm on 10 hours a day for 2 weeks straight. Sometimes I don't play for 6 months straight. As such, I don't have circles of friends that last more than a week or two, and those are extremely rare occurrences. People I raid with, who call me out by name and say they'd like to raid with me again, never do, even when I try to coordinate weeks in advance.

What you are suggesting is that because I will never be in your circle of friends, I should never be allowed to raid. What I am suggesting is that you can continue raiding with your circle of friends, and I will be given a better method of finding a pug. That's it. LFD hasn't changed my relation to you in the slightest, and neither will LFR.

Strikes? What the hell is this baseball?

When will you people actually READ what I am typing instead of blathering on like idiots. Jesus effing Christ you inept little girl. I encourage you on the art of reading, it will do wonders for you.
I did read what you said, and it basically amounted to "whaaa!!!, whaaaa!!! I think I'm better than everyone and want Blizzard to not allow all the people I called "fail baddies" to have a chance to prove me wrong by allowing the easier formation of pugs". You think you can BS your way into winning an argument, but I'm far ahead of you there. That might have worked with your circle of high-school friends, but it doesn't work in the real world. And for the record, I'm not a chick either, this just happens to be my favorite character to play.

You said people needed RealID to raid. You were wrong, even if I translate that as needing to have "friends" (RealID or otherwise) that you group with/talk to on a regular basis in order to successfully raid, as evidenced by the number of successful pugs out there. You said raids required the best players out there. You were very wrong, considering I'm far from "the best", and every time I do get into a raid I'm pretty successful. You said we wanted to be mediocre. You were so obviously wrong it seems doubtful you ever bothered to read past the thread title. You said everyone "can do" PvP. Sure, and everyone "can do" raids by getting into a group with 1 other person, switching to raid, then wiping with 2 85's. In the only meaningful analogy of "being successful at doing the hardest PvE" content vs "being successful at doing the hardest PvP" content, you were wrong, because it still takes teamwork, effort and skill, and considerably more of it, since you're playing against constantly-evolving people, not a static raid encounter. If you want to present some actual arguments, feel free. Until then, I'm going to tear your utterly baseless conjectures apart.

No, it's not baseball, that was just for kicks. Doesn't change the fact that your entire post was wrong. Every single bit of it. We don't raid with groups like yours because we don't want to deal with people like you. We had enough of it when we were kids. And if having more people who understand raid mechanics, have experience raiding, and therefore a greater pool of capable raiders isn't appealing to you, the obvious assumption to make is that you're an elitist who wants to pretend you're better than everyone else because they don't have the time and/or inclination to wade through the existing crap that is raiding right now.

Raiding isn't hard, and if the unwashed masses can quickly get good at Heroic troll dungeons, they can do the same for raids. Seriously, how is "face dragon away from group or it will breathe on them" any harder than "keep boss out of green stuff because it heals them"? Especially when we're talking non-heroic mode, last tier raids. If you had bothered to read even the first post, you would realize we aren't asking for anything that remotely resembles hand-holding inside the raid. We're asking for better tools to communicate our desire to pug with other people who desire to pug, and greater access (cross-realm) to those people.

I'm retired! How many times do I have to tell you this. I have only done one FL fight before I had to call it quits due to life getting hectic with school and getting another job here soon.

I have PuGd Baleroc, Beth, Alysrazor, and Rhyolith fights, all one shots. There should be no reason why no one else can do this.

And I don't care that this does not affect me, it infuriates me that people like you waste peoples time with something that will never happen, for such an idiotic reason. Just accept YOU SUCK.
You mistakenly, foolishly, and arrogantly believe the reason we don't get into pugs is a matter of skill, when it clearly has absolutely nothing to do with skill. How could you possibly think skill plays *any* factor here? Not getting into a pug has to do with the non-availability of 9 other players at the right time and place. Skill hasn't even remotely started to come into the equation. You have to be in a raid for skill to matter, and the issue is getting into the raid. Step 1 has to be completed before step 2 is important. Stop making wild, completely irrational claims and either accept that you're wrong, or just stay out of it.
85 Troll Druid
5275
If they ever put a random raid finder into this game I will quit this game and never come back.

And with a blue posting in this thread it looks like thats what they plan on doing.

I just hope Star wars is out by then so I have another mmo to play.


Gonna have to agree with this. Raid finder sounds completely stupid.

just replace Azeroth with an ingame lobby why dont you.
If they ever put a random raid finder into this game I will quit this game and never come back.

And with a blue posting in this thread it looks like thats what they plan on doing.

I just hope Star wars is out by then so I have another mmo to play.


Gonna have to agree with this. Raid finder sounds completely stupid.

just replace Azeroth with an ingame lobby why dont you.


Because there's four continents of quests and adventures and achievements and fun to be had. We're talking about end-game here. Accessibility to end-game content. Even if I wanted to sit in Stormwind all day looking at the pretty scenery and fishing in Olivia's Pond, how does it affect you negatively?
85 Blood Elf Warrior
1255
Cross-realm raids using RealID: yes.
Cross-realm raids randomly thrown together: unconvinced.
08/16/2011 04:57 PMPosted by Dancingblade
Cross-realm raids randomly thrown together: unconvinced.


What needs to be added or subtracted in order to convince you?
90 Goblin Shaman
8445
08/16/2011 05:08 PMPosted by Firestyle
What you are suggesting is that because I will never be in your circle of friends, I should never be allowed to raid. What I am suggesting is that you can continue raiding with your circle of friends, and I will be given a better method of finding a pug. That's it. LFD hasn't changed my relation to you in the slightest, and neither will LFR.


What I'm saying is that you don't meet people because LFD allows you to use people for a group and dispose of them. Effectively making them NPCs of varying degrees of AI and quality.

Furthermore, these players who you do not meet may have invited you to raid at some point or another - but you'll never know because you never met them. This effect, across every player on a realm is dramatic - and it is why the community of WoW is dead.


^ little story here.

Back during wrath and for 2 years prior, I worked third shift- with a lot of weekends. I would raid when I could and I got to know a lot of people on my server (during BC Kara was the most I was able to raid). Fast forward to Wrath, same situation. Only this time the people I knew would be sending me tells "Hey Twi- wanna come?" (Twi is my hunter). Out of the eleventy billion hunters on my server, I was consistently invited to PUGs- even on my pain in the butt schedule. Honestly, I think back in Wrath (excuse the arrogance here) I could probably have hopped on and just said "Twil, raid, now" and gotten an invite (wish I wasn't being serious with that, but I'd get tells right before I'd log off asking if I wanted to do such and such raid). Got to a point where people didn't even ask me for my gearscore. These days it's "Juju, get on your main".

Three reasons: 1) I know my class and know it well. 2) I have proven time and time again that I can adjust to any situation a fight demands (and I took the time to learn the fights) and 3) I took the time to get to know people on my server (even the jerks). The last point is the most important one. This is after all a social gaming environment.

The biggest reason people expect achievements is because they don't know you; therefore, they don't know that you know the fight. I'm not saying it's something I agree with- I've seen too many people get carried for achieves. But one thing I have found out, you get to know people- you know- be sociable and show them you know what you are doing, a lot of times they'll bypass the whole achievement thing. That's kind of the point of an MMO- being sociable while killing things.

And, while I think some of the LFR proposal is a good idea, I think it would defeat the purpose of a server community. At that point, you might as well just link up all the auctions houses across servers because the whole one community aspect of the game could possibly die.

Now me, personally, I give people a try. If they do well and prove to me they understand what's going on- they normally get an invite back. If not, then I'm sorry but it's just not going to work out (of course that doesn't mean I won't talk to you or anything like that- if it's a between the keyboard and the chair thing- I try to help out).
Edited by Jujubiju on 8/16/2011 5:50 PM PDT
90 Human Warlock
7005
08/16/2011 02:40 PMPosted by Zarhym
Hahaha.

i just spit my red stripe all over my laptop at the beach. way to eff up my 1 vacation a year. if only i had a CTRL-Z button...
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