15 Man Raids!

(Locked)

87 Human Mage
13395
I'd like to see raids be set at any multiple of 5 between 10 and 40.
If they're already balancing the "numbers" for two raids, its easy enough to extrapolate decent numbers for the remaining amounts, and imbalances are more easily identified.

Mechanics could be added at varied group sizes as well.

ie... 10man has 1 add every 30 seconds, 20 man has 2 adds, 30 man has 3 adds.
15 man adds a mind control effect, 25man has 2 mind controls.

I doubt many guilds would actually aim for 40man raiding, but for those few that do, it would be a bragging point. (and 40man farm raids would be mad fun too).
100 Blood Elf Warlock
16060
Would absolutely love a 15 man format, as my guild has been struggling this entire expansion between fielding two understaffed 10's teams or one overstaffed one.
85 Blood Elf Priest
7705
I'd like to see raids be set at any multiple of 5 between 10 and 40.
If they're already balancing the "numbers" for two raids, its easy enough to extrapolate decent numbers for the remaining amounts, and imbalances are more easily identified.

Mechanics could be added at varied group sizes as well.

ie... 10man has 1 add every 30 seconds, 20 man has 2 adds, 30 man has 3 adds.
15 man adds a mind control effect, 25man has 2 mind controls.

I doubt many guilds would actually aim for 40man raiding, but for those few that do, it would be a bragging point. (and 40man farm raids would be mad fun too).

I don't think they'll ever go back to 40 man raids and they would be too much work to set one up
85 Human Paladin
11570
08/10/2011 11:46 PMPosted by Shadownova
I don't think they'll ever go back to 40 man raids and they would be too much work to set one up


as a recruitment officer for a 25man guild, i'll gladly recruit for a 40man guild.

/shrug. I'll put in the work to raid the size I love. we have great officers who are dedicated and interested in large-scale raiding. we'd do 40mans in a heartbeat.
Edited by Robokapp on 8/11/2011 12:02 AM PDT
83 Tauren Druid
1220
jumping on the bandwagon...15 player raids would fix a LOT of guild problems. Think about how many guilds deal with either running 1 or 2 10 man groups, people getting left out, having to pug a group for the second 10 man, etc.

I'd say not having a 15-man group is akin to a cash register not having quarters. Yeah you can give change in dimes and nickles, but quarters make it less hassle.
100 Draenei Mage
10715
Approved.

And I also approve my look without a guild tabard.

/sexyrefrigerator.
15 Draenei Hunter
60
I still miss 40 man raids. I haven't felt the same fire for raiding since then and probably never will again. I still go but it's really just going through the motions.
100 Dwarf Warrior
17245
I think the should add 15 man raids in cataclsym.
10 is too little and 25 is too much. It's like the PERFECT number.
So will we have 10/15/25 man raids. 15 mans will drop 3 pieces of gear following the 1Gear:5Players Ratio.

Please give your thought on this i would LOVE to see 15 man raids.

Edit:10Man-120VP 25Man-140VP so 15Man-130VP

I'd actually agree that 15 players make for a pretty optimal number of raiders, in terms of the logistics of forming a raid and class representation. The task of tuning raids for three separate sizes is one you probably won't see on our radar any time soon though.


20-25 feels ideal to me. To each, their own.

Blizzard has already made a colossal mess of trying to equalize difficulty across 2 formats. The game would probably implode if they tried to change things again.

In general, tightly tuned smaller raids put too much stress on things like roster management and class homogenization to be worth it, but alas, that ship has sailed.
1 Human Priest
0
Writing's pretty clearly on the wall there.

* Population drops make development costs and time attached to maintaining two raid sizes unduly expensive given the number of players served.

* 25 man sees far, far fewer participants.

* Even elite raid guilds have found themselves accepting or even enjoying 10-man raids' simplicity.

The real question is whether Bliz will settle on a compromise raid size for the one-size-fits-all raiding, which would mean 15-man, or just eliminates 25-man raiding and makes all raids 10s.


Who are you to speak for "elite guilds"?

What a crock. Most everybody I know who is an actual progression raider (read: 25 man) despises what Blizzard has done with 10 man raiding.

85 Goblin Warrior
11240
3 Raid sizes would be too much and you'd have way too many issues with getting them all tuned equally

However replacing 10's with 15's i think would be great - since i believe they'd still provide the same ease of running that ppl are enjoing with 10's over 25's but in turn would prolly make it easier for blizzard to tune, since with 15 ppl you'd have the same flexibility on class make-up as you have with 25's.

85 Worgen Priest
2210
I'd like to see raids be set at any multiple of 5 between 10 and 40.
If they're already balancing the "numbers" for two raids, its easy enough to extrapolate decent numbers for the remaining amounts, and imbalances are more easily identified.

Mechanics could be added at varied group sizes as well.

That is all well and good, but the addition of players doesn't increase the entire group's capabilities linearly. Which is what typically causes the balancing problems.

08/11/2011 12:39 AMPosted by Thraso
replacing 10's with 15's i think would be great

Agreed here. 10 mans are notoriously harder to compose--bringing whoever you want works well for awhile, but eventually you're going to want specific buff/debuffs and it's much harder to fit that in with the 10man raid size than the 25man raid size.
85 Human Paladin
1935
08/10/2011 07:55 PMPosted by Diabolickahl
Why is it that some random persons thread about 15 man raids gets a blue post but when i posted this i got ignored? i think 15 man is a great size for raids


You are a random person to me.

Yes I want 15 man raids. They would be a great size. For the moment I an content with 10 mans.
Edited by Calibar on 8/11/2011 1:20 AM PDT
96 Undead Death Knight
10240
08/10/2011 07:46 PMPosted by Killercaitie
Inc 25 more pages to this thread


Did someone say thread!?!?

/appears :D

As long as nothing changes to Kara I will be content.


i'd like to see some of the old raids tooned to 85 for more verity,i'd actually like to see all of sunwell insted of the wipefest on the first boss i was in when i ran it,who could forget the romeo and juliet rip off boss in kara,
90 Draenei Shaman
16815
*Stamp of Approval!*

10 is too small and 25 is too large

-10 Man Raids (Especially Heroic) requires a specific setup. If you don't have your required healer, setup or comp you can't easily perform that heroic event. For example, I had to switch mains because an Enhance Shaman offered little benefit to our 10 man raiding strategy. This isnt wasn't my choice but it was required for progress. I know many people who had to switch mains to Priest and Druids because of boss mechanics requiring specific cooldowns, buffs and niches.

-25 Man Raids, the killer of Medium Server Population raiding guilds. 25 have much more flexibilty with comp and cooldown usage. Naturally managing 25 people is a job in itself. I know on Medium Population servers where its harder to get recruits these are slowly dying and killing the servers, Anvilmar is one of those examples. Plus its extremely hard to organize as a pug and offer little real benefit of overhead management.


I dont see why 15/20 Man raids (on 1 setting IMO) is such a hard issue. The worst thing Blizzard did was introduce the 10/25 shared lockout. This was a guild killer everywhere and a reason why the game is in the state it is now (More issues than that but a contributing issue).

If Blizzard wants to meet everyone in the middle and put more development time into more important things (PVE/PVP balancing) then this would be a great first step
85 Troll Mage
8330
inb4 26 fill?
85 Goblin Warrior
6470
I think they should just make the larger scale raids with multiple wings (ICC, Ulduar, Karazhan type raids) all into 10 or 15 man versions. Then make separate 25 man raids that only have a single boss, or maybe two(Onyxia, Gruul's Lair, Magtheridon, Throne of Four Winds kind of raids).

I think this is a good compromise for all. You can do the larger raids with a core group of people that you are going to spend a lot of time with, it would be easier to organize and not many people would be left out. You could also throw your 10 man group in with some other 15 man group and conquer a single 25 man raid boss together once a week as well.

It's a lot easier getting 25 people together to do a quick Onyxia run, than it is to run all the way through Ulduar(assuming you're doing it at the gear level it's meant for). I'd rather save Ulduar for my 10 or 15 man group.
85 Night Elf Druid
5100
10 mans, IMO, are too hard to tune correctly and have too much RNG to them. They also dont feel like raiding. If they were regular dungeons, that would be a different story.

I've been singing the 15 man raid tune for years now it seems along with the 6 man dungeon (just add one more dps slot for 6 mans and 4 dps, one healer for 15s).

I'd really like to see raids based on one size too, not 2 different sizes. That's true of heroic content too though. I want to see new content, not get done with the tier just to redo a boss i already killed with a slight twist. Boring. This raid dungeon is a 15 man, and this is a 25. Old school. 10 people isnt a raid IMHO, it just isn't.

/signed for 15s and 25s
/signed for deleting 10 man raids OR converting them into 10 man heroic dungeons
/signed for 6 man dungeons/heroic dungeons
Edited by Lorethelin on 8/11/2011 5:06 AM PDT
85 Worgen Druid
11505
15 would be very nice, please thanks. I don't care if 10 mans go away forever.
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