Dragonwrath and YOU

85 Blood Elf Mage
4155
I'm not sure Mind Flay or SW:P will generate Shadow Orbs for you Spriests. If you take a look at the logs, whenever a DoT procs (Mind flay is considered a DoT, I'm sure you all know that), the duplicate is the Wrath of Tarcgosa, and not a copy of the spell like a Direct Damage spell.

But maybe I'm wrong. I'm probably wrong. But that's what i think, for now.
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100 Draenei Mage
9970
They really need to fix this for frost. Based on our current info the staff will be around 40-50% less effective for frost than it would be for arcane.

Current Issues:

  • Deep Freeze duplicated doesn't do damage even with 2 charges, let alone 1.

  • Ice Lance doesn't duplicate with the FoF bonus if their is only 1 charge initially.


  • FFB's cast with 1 FoF charge will not benefit from FoF on the duplicate as well.


  • Essentially this means that only Frostbolt and Ice Lance (only with 2 charges---which will screw up our rotation anyway by getting rid of both) will receive full benefit from the staff.

    Solution:

    Proc's don't consume FoF charges. (Fix DF issues as well)
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    Deep Freeze duplicated doesn't do damage even with 2 charges, let alone 1

    wrong. it does do damage. it just doesnt get shatter

    the rest seems like a pvp fix

    22:33:15> Siiz casts Deep Freeze at Raider's Training Dummy.
    22:33:15> Siiz Deep Freeze failed. Raider's Training Dummy was immune.
    22:33:15> Siiz casts Deep Freeze at Raider's Training Dummy.
    22:33:15> Siiz's Fingers of Frost (1) diminishes.
    22:33:15> Siiz's Deep Freeze hits Raider's Training Dummy for 64248 Frost.(Critical)
    22:33:16> Siiz casts Deep Freeze at Raider's Training Dummy.
    22:33:16> Siiz's Deep Freeze hits Raider's Training Dummy for 31459 Frost. _____ <-proc
    Edited by Olo on 8/13/2011 11:06 AM PDT
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    85 Draenei Mage
    12090
    I'm not sure Mind Flay or SW:P will generate Shadow Orbs for you Spriests. If you take a look at the logs, whenever a DoT procs (Mind flay is considered a DoT, I'm sure you all know that), the duplicate is the Wrath of Tarcgosa, and not a copy of the spell like a Direct Damage spell.

    But maybe I'm wrong. I'm probably wrong. But that's what i think, for now.


    Um...I was under the impression that Mind Flay was considered a Channeled attack, such as Blizzard, Arcane Missiles, and Drain Life. In which case each tick of Mind Flay would have a chance to proc an additional tick. However Mind Flay proccing Shadow Orbs, that is a different story, but it would not surprise me that it can. On your comment on SW:P though, since the proc is an Arcane attack then I can see it not proccing. The only thing I can think of is that they add Wrath of Tarecgosa to the list of spells that procs Shadow Orbs.
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    1 Human Paladin
    0
    Just as much as you use additional FoF procs with IL/FFB, you generate more, so it evens out.
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    85 Worgen Warlock
    0
    Are spells causing a second-similar debuff on the target, or just refreshing the old one?

    For instance if you proc a crit fireball, is it extending/rolling your current ignite or creating a new one?
    Probably more easily tested, if you proc an extra pyroblast, does it extend the dot by an extra tick, or create an entirely new dot?
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    Are spells causing a second-similar debuff on the target, or just refreshing the old one?

    For instance if you proc a crit fireball, is it extending/rolling your current ignite or creating a new one?
    Probably more easily tested, if you proc an extra pyroblast, does it extend the dot by an extra tick, or create an entirely new dot?
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    85 Worgen Warlock
    0
    I honestly don't know the inner workings of fire to that kind of degree, so if I worded that wrong, apologies, but I think my point is clear.
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    08/13/2011 11:07 AMPosted by Shapow
    I honestly don't know the inner workings of fire to that kind of degree, so if I worded that wrong, apologies, but I think my point is clear.


    I wasn’t correcting you, I was answering the question

    it does not create an extra dot. it acts as if you just casted the same spell again
    Edited by Olo on 8/13/2011 11:11 AM PDT
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    100 Draenei Priest
    19530
    Mind Flay lives in that murky territory between dot and channeled spell (you channel a dot basically).

    For the purposes of this proc, we won't really know until either a priest gets the staff or a blue states it, but I'm willing to bet Mind Flay will firmly be in the dot category (ie - Wrath of Tarecgosa).
    Edited by Meioh on 8/13/2011 11:18 AM PDT
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    85 Worgen Warlock
    0
    Roger, thanks.

    Being in the mage forums weirds me out.

    Was wondering for the purpose of it proc'ing on a Haunt cast, and it applying two haunt debuffs in addition to 2 stacks of Shadow's Embrace.

    Staff seems fairly straight forward for affliction then, minus the proc rate.

    For warlocks, the bonuses from getting an extra spell cast seem a bit smaller than those for the other specs. Most of our procs happen from DoTs(Eradication, Nightfall, Molten Core), or a pet cast in Destro. (Minus possible Impending Doom procs for Demon)

    I.E, extra MF ticks for orbs/shadowfiend CD, extra wrath/starfire for faster bar movement, more LB's to get more LB's to get more LB's to get more fulmination, AB proc to get AB stacks faster (milder than the others listed)
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    100 Night Elf Druid
    13160
    As of 9 hours ago. Happyjojj posted on the EU forums as a balance druid with the legendary. (S)he has just started posting info for balance druid proc rates and how if effects solar/lunar energy.

    And how it effects certain spells such as starfall and wild mushrooms.

    Edit: http://eu.battle.net/wow/en/forum/topic/2504844873 the link to the Balance druid info on the legendary
    Edited by Blueskees on 8/13/2011 11:40 AM PDT
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    100 Dwarf Priest
    12090
    This is all very interesting, thank you for the effort put towards the staff theorycrafing.

    Can't wait to see the first shadowpriest get their hands on the staff to determine just how the staff will work with us. Based on the information gathered thus far it seems as if channeled spells duplicate the channel as the same spell rather than as "Wrath of Terecgosa". This is good news as it will likely benefit shadoworb generation and shadowfiend cd reduction.


    According to current knowledge about how dots/channels are treated MF procs are similar to Arcane missles procs and should add orbs and MF proc crits should reduce shadow fiend cd. However SWP procs aren't copied their damage is mirrored by the 'wrath of tarecgosa' spell thus it wouldn't generate an orb.

    Mind spike procing should also add to mind melt stacks. Mindflay proc which should generate 1 extra tick for each proc (1 mf cast with 1 proc == 4 ticks instead of 3) should also increase evangilism stacks. Mind Sear procs should proc like mind flay aka off of each tick. Each tick proc should hit in an aoe fashion.

    aka mind sear with 3 targets:

    tick1 (no proc): hits all 3 targets
    tick2 (proc): hits all 3 targets twice (each should have their own ability to crit as each channeled tick is treated as a copied spell)
    tick3-5 no procs

    looking through logs it should show a total of 18 dmg ticks across 3 targets or 6 ticks per target all of them independently capable of critting.

    As there is no ICD on the proc its theoretically possible for 1 mind flay cast could give you 6 ticks and 1 mindsear cast could give you 10 ticks though the chance even if ~12% would result in some impossibly small number.
    Edited by Shisai on 8/13/2011 11:32 AM PDT
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    85 Troll Druid
    9955
    Can you clarify if the spell is copied when it is cast, or when it hits?

    This has some implications for moonkins due to Eclipse mechanics and Wrath's travel time.
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    Can you clarify if the spell is copied when it is cast, or when it hits?

    This has some implications for moonkins due to Eclipse mechanics and Wrath's travel time.


    the proc happens when the spell hits. the proc has no travel time
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    100 Dwarf Priest
    12090
    Can you clarify if the spell is copied when it is cast, or when it hits?

    This has some implications for moonkins due to Eclipse mechanics and Wrath's travel time.


    the proc happens when the spell hits. the proc has no travel time


    Correct, however I believe judging by the way fingers of frost and arcane blast stacks functioned there is enough time delay between the two spells landing that stacks can be removed before the 2nd spell hits... In a shadow priest's case this would mean if a 3 orb mind blast proc'd the proc would not gain the benefit of the 3 orbs. This is probably some what intentional on blizzards design intentions.
    Edited by Shisai on 8/13/2011 11:39 AM PDT
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    85 Draenei Mage
    12090
    Happyjojj's Moonkin info can be found here:

    http://eu.battle.net/wow/en/forum/topic/2504844873
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    100 Draenei Mage
    9970
    wrong. it does do damage. it just doesnt get shatter

    the rest seems like a pvp fix

    22:33:15> Siiz casts Deep Freeze at Raider's Training Dummy.
    22:33:15> Siiz Deep Freeze failed. Raider's Training Dummy was immune.
    22:33:15> Siiz casts Deep Freeze at Raider's Training Dummy.
    22:33:15> Siiz's Fingers of Frost (1) diminishes.
    22:33:15> Siiz's Deep Freeze hits Raider's Training Dummy for 64248 Frost.(Critical)
    22:33:16> Siiz casts Deep Freeze at Raider's Training Dummy.
    22:33:16> Siiz's Deep Freeze hits Raider's Training Dummy for 31459 Frost. _____ <-proc


    I see. But that is still not how it should be. The proc should be an exact duplicate of the spell. The whole basis of frost's viability is crit's with mastery. The staff will be better by a factor of 2 on arcane if they don't fix this.
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    wrong. it does do damage. it just doesnt get shatter

    the rest seems like a pvp fix

    22:33:15> Siiz casts Deep Freeze at Raider's Training Dummy.
    22:33:15> Siiz Deep Freeze failed. Raider's Training Dummy was immune.
    22:33:15> Siiz casts Deep Freeze at Raider's Training Dummy.
    22:33:15> Siiz's Fingers of Frost (1) diminishes.
    22:33:15> Siiz's Deep Freeze hits Raider's Training Dummy for 64248 Frost.(Critical)
    22:33:16> Siiz casts Deep Freeze at Raider's Training Dummy.
    22:33:16> Siiz's Deep Freeze hits Raider's Training Dummy for 31459 Frost. _____ <-proc


    I see. But that is still not how it should be. The proc should be an exact duplicate of the spell. The whole basis of frost's viability is crit's with mastery. The staff will be better by a factor of 2 on arcane if they don't fix this.

    it would be insane in pvp
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    100 Dwarf Priest
    12090
    wrong. it does do damage. it just doesnt get shatter

    the rest seems like a pvp fix

    22:33:15> Siiz casts Deep Freeze at Raider's Training Dummy.
    22:33:15> Siiz Deep Freeze failed. Raider's Training Dummy was immune.
    22:33:15> Siiz casts Deep Freeze at Raider's Training Dummy.
    22:33:15> Siiz's Fingers of Frost (1) diminishes.
    22:33:15> Siiz's Deep Freeze hits Raider's Training Dummy for 64248 Frost.(Critical)
    22:33:16> Siiz casts Deep Freeze at Raider's Training Dummy.
    22:33:16> Siiz's Deep Freeze hits Raider's Training Dummy for 31459 Frost. _____ <-proc


    Question... Looking at that line it appears as though the cast was duplicated not just the spell landing...

    Maybe i just don't understand how a frost mage functions but the idea that the cast would be copied not just the spell landing has potential changes to how we evaluate things. Namely is it effected by interupts/spell pushback?
    Edited by Shisai on 8/13/2011 11:46 AM PDT
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