Threat Change 4.3 Discussion Thread

85 Night Elf Warrior
10285
New Ghostcrawler blog post!

http://us.battle.net/wow/en/blog/3300854
http://blue.mmo-champion.com/topic/190984/dev-watercooler-threat-level-midnight
http://theincbear.com/forums/posting.php?mode=post&f=32

Upcoming Changes

Here are the specific changes you’re likely to see on the PTR for the next major content patch, 4.3:
  • The threat generated by classes in their tanking mode has been increased from three times damage done to five times damage done.

  • Vengeance no longer ramps up slowly at the beginning of a fight. Instead, the first melee attack taken generates Vengeance equal to one third of the damage dealt by that attack. As Vengeance updates during the fight, it is always set to at least a third of the damage taken in the last two seconds. It still climbs from that point at the previous rate, still decays at the previous rate, and still cannot exceed the current maximum.


** IMPORTANT REGARDING ABOVE QUOTE **
08/16/2011 09:53 AMPosted by Kaivax
Please note that this change is being made with a hotfix this week, not 4.3.

** IMPORTANT REGARDING ABOVE QUOTE **

That said, we ultimately don’t want tanking to be just standing there soaking boss hits and we would like to have more stats on gear that tanks care about. To solve those challenges, we want to shift more tank mitigation to require active management. We’ll still give all the tanks emergency cooldowns like Shield Wall and Survival Instincts. However, we want to move the shorter cooldowns like Shield Block, Holy Shield and Savage Defense so that they work more like Death Strike. Blood DKs have a lot of control over the survivability they get from Death Strike, but as part of that gameplay, they have to actually hit their target. The other three tanks will get similar active defense mechanics. This doesn’t mean everyone needs to use the DK model of self-healing, but they can use the DK model of managing resources to maximize survivability.


There is a lot there to read, i'm still processing it. Discuss.
Edited by Charsi on 8/16/2011 9:56 AM PDT
85 Night Elf Priest
2325
So, I will be able to use shield block more? :O
85 Night Elf Warrior
10285
My initial reaction is: why is vengeance still based on damage taken? So dumb.

I'm guessing the block mechanisms will activate after you Shield Slam or some nonsense. Which is kind of what I figured they'd do.
85 Blood Elf Paladin
10520
Is it April 1 already?

Seriously, I just don't know what so say to this.
100 Human Paladin
20005
Not really pleased by a lot of what I have read so far.

The two comments about paladins (Re: holy shield and WoG) are really meh. I mean:

Heck we could make Word of Glory the thing you’re supposed to do with Holy Power, so long as we balanced all tanks around that idea and didn’t feel it infringed too much on the DK mechanic.


No thanks.
100 Night Elf Druid
16950
I think this is a good change. It will make using the dungeon finder tool a lot more pleasant (where people don't normally focus your target). I'm not sure about changing all the tank classes to function like death knights but will obviously have to wait to see how that works out.

I'm hoping that with the change where threat doesn't matter, the rate at which bears gain rage (or spend it) is looked at. With rage normalization, it feels a lot like warriors were the intended target for that change - bear abilities still cost a lot and our ways of generating rage are very limited.

Aside from that, a fair bit of the bear discussion in the article seemed a little confused:
We’ll still give all the tanks emergency cooldowns like Shield Wall and Survival Instincts. However, we want to move the shorter cooldowns like Shield Block, Holy Shield and Savage Defense so that they work more like Death Strike.

...savage defense being a short cooldown? SD already only procs when we hit a target, then only a 50% chance on a crit.

But it's very exciting times ahead I think. Will definitely be testing these changes once it goes onto the PTR. :)
85 Night Elf Warrior
10285
We could make Shield Block cost rage, and change Protection warrior rage income such that they had to manage rage, the way Fury and Arms warriors now must do.


1. It already costs 10 rage, http://www.wowhead.com/spell=2565, are they handwaving a 50 rage cost or something, or otherwise based on the amount of rage you have?

2. Fury warriors manage rage? You mean they dont blow every cooldown and mash abilities as they come off cd to top dps meters? Really?
90 Night Elf Death Knight
8890
so much for lvling my warrior.
85 Night Elf Warrior
10285
I still wouldn't play a DK unless they completely and utterly gut block. Which they might do.
86 Night Elf Warrior
4755
Maybe I'm stupid but I find this confusing...does this mean vengeance will ramp up slower or faster.

Edit: And does this mean the more a boss casts or does damage outside of melee attacks the worse the vengeance stack?
Edited by Ravat on 8/16/2011 9:32 AM PDT
90 Worgen Druid
12790
Good god.

I need to read this and think before I respond.
85 Night Elf Warrior
10285
The blog post just vanished. WTF? I'm getting 404. Reesi, if you still have it open, save it.
Edited by Charsi on 8/16/2011 9:32 AM PDT
85 Night Elf Death Knight
14080
08/16/2011 09:31 AMPosted by Ravat
Maybe I'm stupid but I find this confusing...does this mean vengeance will ramp up slower or faster.

Faster. If you take a 40k hit right from the start, you'll have 40k/3 = 13k-ish vengeance instantly. Which will decay and adjust accordingly to the damage you've taken over the last 2s.

Given that threat doesn't matter anymore (a dps would have to do 50k to beat me with no vengeance), it's now basically free dps for us.

08/16/2011 09:32 AMPosted by Charsi
The blog post just vanished. WTF? I'm getting 404. Reesi, if you still have it open, save it.

http://blue.mmo-champion.com/topic/190984/dev-watercooler-threat-level-midnight
Edited by Morrigan on 8/16/2011 9:34 AM PDT
90 Worgen Druid
12790
Done and done - I'll post on TIB.
51 Draenei Paladin
320
Really?

Sigh.. I'm not against active mitigation, but I can see them screwing this up just like they did blood.

Also, the blog is gone already, it seems.
85 Human Warrior
6475
yea it 404'd for me as well.
85 Undead Warrior
4800
post Not found?
75 Troll Druid
670
Why even keep threat if it's got a 5x tank modifier on it?

So my 50k ShoR crit just did 250k threat? Is that really necessary? Just give Warriors and DKs a Cower type ability.
90 Worgen Druid
12790
08/16/2011 09:33 AMPosted by Morrigan
http://blue.mmo-champion.com/topic/190984/dev-watercooler-threat-level-midnight

Also : http://theincbear.com/forums/posting.php?mode=post&f=32
85 Blood Elf Paladin
5055
Threat stuff looks nice.

My thoughts on this:

We’ll still give all the tanks emergency cooldowns like Shield Wall and Survival Instincts. However, we want to move the shorter cooldowns like Shield Block, Holy Shield and Savage Defense so that they work more like Death Strike.


Paladins had Holy Shield used to work like this, being used every 9, 6 can't even remember anymore seconds, and being an essential part of Pally rotation tanking. It got changed to what it is now. Now its gonna be changed again? If their gonna restore it to act similar to how it did either Pre-Cata or pre-4.2 even fine great. If not, just please leave my poor Holy Shield alone.

Bottom line: If I wanted to tank like a DK I would tank on my DK, I tank mainly on my Paladin for a reason.
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