GC's latest blog, Active Mitigation Playstyle

85 Blood Elf Death Knight
6580
Ghostcrawler's latest blog entry laid out some new threat mechanics, which I'm not sure I agree with, but will have to suck up.. But it also touched on the Dev's interest in making the current Blood style of tanking (consuming resources for mitigation) into the "homogenization" for all tanks, by which they mean to have all tanks monitoring resources to maintain their survivability.

I am one of the VERY few Blood DK's who are actually attempting HM FL progression, and it SUCKS. I've been one of the best DK tanks on my realm since pre-ICC, and now I'm one of the only ones. Stroll along the Tanking or DK forums, and you see re-rolls or re-specs every single day from the Blood tree to something else, simply because it is entirely too hard to play correctly(Read: what dev's consider fun) while progressing through HM content. Blood DK's have vanished from this world, if you look at progressing guilds.

This playstyle, if transferred to all other tanks in some form or another, will inevitably lead to even less tanks roaming the LFD, Trade chat tanks selling Q's will be a thing of the past, and overall the tank population will go down.

I agree with the populace that tanking has gotten "harder" this x-pac, and the Blood tree is the hardest of them all. If you homogenize the tank specs to be anywhere near similar to Blood in its current state, you will effectively make tanks a thing of the past, and the PvE segment of this game will be unreachable for even more of your customer base.

My 2c
Edited by Celivan on 8/16/2011 2:14 PM PDT
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85 Blood Elf Death Knight
6580
No one agrees that the tank shortage problem will be exponentially worsened by this move?
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There are already several threads on this.
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87 Worgen Hunter
6190
Sounds like the changes are meant to make tanking easier, which should encourage more people to try it out, seems to me.
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90 Blood Elf Death Knight
10675
08/16/2011 02:59 PMPosted by Celivan
No one agrees that the tank shortage problem will be exponentially worsened by this move?

I think it'll actually be helped, at least as far as 5-mans are concerned. The difficulty of blood tanking isn't really an issue until you get into raiding. If people can tank without having to worry about what the DPS are doing as much, they'll be far more willing to do it for randoms.
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90 Draenei Paladin
12105
08/16/2011 03:04 PMPosted by Karat
If people can tank without having to worry about what the DPS are doing as much, they'll be far more willing to do it for randoms.


I agree with this. If I don't have to worry that the stupid arcane mage will rip the boss off of me in the first 5 seconds of a fight, I'll be more relaxed, and therefore more able to use active abilities that impact my survivability. I like that.
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85 Night Elf Warrior
0
08/16/2011 03:04 PMPosted by Karat
No one agrees that the tank shortage problem will be exponentially worsened by this move?

I think it'll actually be helped, at least as far as 5-mans are concerned. The difficulty of blood tanking isn't really an issue until you get into raiding. If people can tank without having to worry about what the DPS are doing as much, they'll be far more willing to do it for randoms.


The difficulty of playing Blood appropriately is always a pain. Doesn't matter what you're tanking.

So...you know all those "sucky DK" tanks? That's going to be a LOT of tanks with an "active" mitigation system.
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90 Blood Elf Death Knight
10675
The difficulty of playing Blood appropriately is always a pain. Doesn't matter what you're tanking.

So...you know all those "sucky DK" tanks? That's going to be a LOT of tanks with an "active" mitigation system.


My point is that screwing up the playstyle a bit isn't as big an issue in 5-mans. Is it still difficult to play perfectly? Yes. Is it difficult to play "good enough" for 5-mans? No.
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85 Blood Elf Death Knight
6580
If people can tank without having to worry about what the DPS are doing as much, they'll be far more willing to do it for randoms.


I agree with this. If I don't have to worry that the stupid arcane mage will rip the boss off of me in the first 5 seconds of a fight, I'll be more relaxed, and therefore more able to use active abilities that impact my survivability. I like that.


This isn't a thread about threat. The new threat system is completely separate from this.
This thread is about Blizzard feeling that the Blood tree actually works, and for reasons unknown to me, think that its a good idea to give this playstyle to all the other tanks, when the evidence we have is QUITE contrary to what they believe.

If you played an active mitigation style tank, you'd know. No tank likes to go from 100% to 30% because he didn't press his "Shield" button at the right time. The blood community went from thriving to a barren wasteland, all because our 2 sources of mitigation directly conflict with each for resources, and we are subsequently more "squishy" than any other tank because of it.

If you think taking threat out of the equation is gonna make any bit of difference to this sweeping change, you're wrong.

Now, no one has any idea about what the final product will be for the other 3 tanks, but so far, "active mitigation" has led the DK tank community to break at the clear weak points, and it destroyed the viability of the class for any progression fights. The argument that the effects are currently only seen in HM FL is a moot point, because only the top of the top even attempt to go that far. "Casual" players that attempt to tank after this change will find themselves dying easier, and switching back to the relaxing DPS role.

If this goes through, you're going to see all 3 other tanks being "harder" to play, and squishier across the board.

This isn't me pleading with Dev's to fix Blood, this is me pleading with Dev's to not corrupt the other 3 tanks into a failure of a playstyle that will make their big customer base ("Casuals") not want to tank.
Edited by Celivan on 8/16/2011 3:16 PM PDT
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71 Blood Elf Paladin
1010
I haven't played Blood, but even if they model after that spec, it probably won't come of as playing the same or having the same problems.

And if it does, I guess that's a plus for you since they will probably fix either the specs to be easier to work with, or fix the encounters so they end up easier to tank/mitigate damage.
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85 Draenei Priest
2040
Blizzard buffs Paladin tanks in TBC.
Solves tank shortage? no

Blizzard makes AoE tanking easier in TBC.
Solves tank shortage? no

Blizzard adds a class that can tank: deathknights.
Solves tank shortage? no

Blizzard adds CTA to encourage LFD tanks.
Solves tank shortage? no

Blizzard makes tanking easier (GC's post).
Solves tank shortage? ??

I'm seeing a pattern here. So do you think Blizzard realizes tanking shortage is a community problem.
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87 Tauren Warrior
12535
The difficulty of playing Blood appropriately is always a pain. Doesn't matter what you're tanking.

So...you know all those "sucky DK" tanks? That's going to be a LOT of tanks with an "active" mitigation system.


My point is that screwing up the playstyle a bit isn't as big an issue in 5-mans. Is it still difficult to play perfectly? Yes. Is it difficult to play "good enough" for 5-mans? No.


Is this game about 5 mans or is about raiding? Does nobody read the tanking forums? There are posts upon posts about the problems with DKs and hard modes.
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90 Blood Elf Death Knight
10675
08/16/2011 03:15 PMPosted by Amethon
Is this game about 5 mans or is about raiding? Does nobody read the tanking forums? There are posts upon posts about the problems with DKs and hard modes.


All I'm trying to say is that I think it'll help the tank shortage problem that everyone complains about, which is for 5-mans (at least in my experience). I have absolutely no experience in hard mode raiding, but I agree that the current model of DK tanking is poorly designed for it.
Edited by Karat on 8/16/2011 3:19 PM PDT
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85 Draenei Paladin
6270
I just wish healers had the ability to see a DK tank's resources :/
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85 Blood Elf Death Knight
6580
Blizzard makes tanking easier (GC's post).
Solves tank shortage? ??


This is a "glass half empty/full" argument.
Taking threat out of the equation for 99% of situations? Sure, thats making tanking easier.

Making all tank resource systems and mitigation work similarly to the current blood tree? Absolute MASSIVE failure, inexorably harder and near impossible to perform viably for most of the general playerbase.

The only way I see this working is if their idea of "active mitigation" for the other 3 tanks is no where near as consequential for them if their "Death Strike" misses.
BTW, thats another whole argument in itself.

How do you balance the active mitigations of all 4 tanks without reworking Blood?
Currently we're the only tank in-game that actually has our Hit/Exp rating effect our mitigation.
Are they gonna turn holy shield into something that can miss or be parried? If not, DS needs a fairness rework. The argument goes on and on.

I maintain my position that this is a terrible, terrible idea, and should have alot more work put into it than the timespan of 1 content patch. This is a tanking design overhaul that should have happened with 4.0.
Edited by Celivan on 8/16/2011 3:40 PM PDT
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62 Worgen Death Knight
250
08/16/2011 03:22 PMPosted by Poliwag
I just wish healers had the ability to see a DK tank's resources :/


Would certainly be handy, to know when to blow CDs to keep them alive. (Although, our DK tank used to just call out whenever he blew his CDs, so we'd know approximately when he'd need more attention. But he quit, and now I'm the tank. :X)
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85 Gnome Priest
5975
08/16/2011 03:22 PMPosted by Poliwag
I just wish healers had the ability to see a DK tank's resources :/


Could you infer resources by scanning the combat log events perhaps (sort of like how omen and related addons worked before a supported api from blizzard).
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85 Draenei Priest
2040
Blizzard makes tanking easier (GC's post).
Solves tank shortage? ??


This is a "glass half empty/full" argument.
Taking threat out of the equation for 99% of situations? Sure, thats making tanking easier.

Making all tank resource systems and mitigation work similarly to the current blood tree? Absolute MASSIVE failure, inexorably harder and near impossible to perform viably for most of the general playerbase.

The only way I see this working is if their idea of "active mitigation" for the other 3 tanks is no where near as consequential for them if their "Death Strike" misses.
BTW, thats another whole argument in itself.

How do you balance the active mitigations of all 4 tanks without reworking Blood?
Currently we're the only tank in-game that actually has our Hit/Exp rating effect our mitigation.
Are they gonna turn holy shield into something that can miss or be parried? If not, DS needs a fairness rework. The argument goes on and on.

I maintain my position that this is a terrible, terrible idea, and should have alot more work put into it than the timespan of 1 content patch. This is a tanking design overhaul that should have happened with 4.0.


I'm not familiar with death knight tanking (as I have a warrior tank). However in the end, tanking seems to be fine just the way it is at the moment, to me. Blizzard is trying to implement all these new things to encourage tanking. When will they realize its not the game, but the players?
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85 Night Elf Warrior
0
What I find most disturbing about all of that post was the only thing I really took away from it.

DK tanks and all their serious problems are the "bar" to which all the other tanks are going to get re-tuned to.

Because I like randomly dying to a fubar mitigation compensation design. DS harder *****!
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