GC's latest blog, Active Mitigation Playstyle

85 Orc Death Knight
9745
08/17/2011 10:34 AMPosted by Halash
my point is Dks are viable for Hmods yes ochi is only 4/7 but that dosnt mean they arnt viable


Your opinion was based on personal experience, and thus can be readily discarded.
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85 Human Hunter
3525
my opinion is based from seeing livestreams yes it is my opinion but look at moranda from stormreaver doin fine Stoke from defias brotherhood eu
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85 Orc Death Knight
9745
08/17/2011 10:50 AMPosted by Halash
my opinion is based from seeing livestreams yes it is my opinion but look at moranda from stormreaver doin fine Stoke from defias brotherhood eu


Why are you pointing me to Blood DKs that have tanked far less Heroic content this Tier than I have?
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85 Draenei Paladin
3995
I was just mulling about in my head and with the changes to vengeance and the way it stacks up with shields and full absorbs (it doesn't). That got me to thinking about way back when people would say "wait for X sunders before DPS'ing." With the change that might become, "wait for X vengeance before using a shield."

A bit silly to think but who knows.
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85 Gnome Priest
6240
Waiting on a next gen mmo that gets rid of the stupid old fashioned holy trinity.
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35 Dwarf Hunter
0
Not sure if this has been brought up and not sure how many people will actually see it but just wanted to toss in my 2 cents. People have been complaining about the fact that Bears have poor mitigation potential and DKs forms of avoidance/mitigation go against each other and cause them to be spiky/squishy. Couldn't a simple fix for the DK problem is to have the blood barrier skill take from the Runic Power instead of being a ratio of what damage has been taken in the past 5s? This could also be used for Bear tanks. The mechanics for Paladins and Warriors would be similar but obviously playing off the aspect of using a shield.

DKs: can keep it along with Death Strike (so still using runes and will need to have some sort of rotation) but have it talented in that by using Death Strike it will also use up a certain amount of runic power and each point of runic power gives a % of max health as the blood barrier for the next 8 seconds.

Druids: Not sure which skill it would be a good tie-in for (mangle maybe?) but similar to the DK. Talent that would allow skill to use additional rage to be converted into damage absorbed for 8s.

Warrior: Shield Slam (again skill tie-in is to be considered) be talented to use additional rage to increase the % chance of getting a critical block for 8s.

Both Warriors and Druids use rage as their sole source of damage output so rage generation/cost will have to be played with a little to strike a decent balance. But since they are wanting to increase the threat generation capability of tanks then it might not be too much of a hassle.

Paladins: This is a little tricky since it takes a little bit of time to build up Holy power without the use of CDs. I was thinking Paladins could choose to go in 2 directions depending on talents. On SotR/WoG you increase the %value blocked/%damage absorbed for each point of Holy Power used.

Again just some ideas I wanted to toss out really quick. Not sure if anyone else has already posted something similar, thoughts just popped into my head while reading over the some posts and decided to add them.
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90 Orc Death Knight
10220
08/17/2011 11:12 AMPosted by Sadismo
Waiting on a next gen mmo that gets rid of the stupid old fashioned holy trinity.

We could totally go the route of Silkroad Online with its physical tanks, magical tanks, nukers, spankers, healers, dispellers, buffers, debuffers, and resurrections.

Say what you want about the holy trinity of WoW. It's simple and it works.
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85 Blood Elf Death Knight
6580
Let's not get ahead of ourselves. My OP was a bit overzealous in implying that the restructuring would cripple the other 3 classes in ways similar to Dks atm. The plans haven't been released yet.

Basically, Blizz needs to realize that the skill cap, and subsequent mitigation for the current DK model has high prices depending on who's at the buttons, and by making the other 3 classes as unforgiving as our rune tetris and DS parries/misses make us, they'll cripple the "average" PuG tank into feeling like a plate dps'er with high threat.

Ask any healer that has posted in this thread, or made any posts on the Tank/DK forums.
When a healer enters a LFD dungeon, and see's that he has a DK tank at the helm, they go a bit numb, and they begin to shiver a bit. Their heart sinks a bit deeper into their chest, as they inspect the DK. This DK hasn't been shown the proper way to play this confusing tree (8 months into the x-pac, and the number crunchers still haven't truly figured out the best route), so he takes roughly 40% more damage than a shield tank, and the shield tank just has to stand there to be more effective. Look over the details in Recount, and you see this Blood tank has Obliterate and Festering strike in his "rotation". Immediately, you've witnessed the absolute worst possible scenario. This is not the exception to the rule. This is, sadly, the norm. I play a holy priest when I'm really really bored, and every single time I get a DK tank, they're absolute massive failures at the tree. They have no clue, and that is what I see happening to the other tanks. The general populace just doesn't research their class as in-depthly as it sometimes requires, and the puggers pay the price.

If the skill cap for these changes resembles the failure of the Blood tree, I forsee yet another sweeping decline in subs, except this time it'll be from the tank community as a whole, instead of random casuals here and there that don't like that they can't faceroll dps anymore.
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85 Troll Death Knight
5235
Just give it up dude, bliz has this idiotic idea that blood is awesome....


Blood is awesome... stop listening to Elitistjerks and L2 play it...

Active mitigation ftw! (lol)
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85 Night Elf Druid
6920
08/17/2011 11:42 AMPosted by Celivan
If the skill cap for these changes resembles the failure of the Blood tree, I forsee yet another sweeping decline in subs, except this time it'll be from the tank community as a whole, instead of random casuals here and there that don't like that they can't faceroll dps anymore.


Don't leave out the healer community! We're going to be stressed out trying to cover for mitigation rotation holes/mistakes. Of course, it could be balanced where tanks are just as tanky as they are right now (with DKs buffed of course!) and the active mitigation just makes things a bit easier.

But I highly doubt it.
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90 Orc Death Knight
10220
The blood tanking style would be fun and intuitive if it weren't for a select few aspects holding it back. The rune system used in Cata just doesn't work with the current model - maybe it's just me, but I never seem to have enough runes, regardless of how many different ways I time my moves. By the same token, Blood Shield doesn't last long enough to tide us over during those moments when our runes are refreshing; nothing is more irritating than losing your absorb right before you get another DS off to refresh it.

Couple this with our health bars being spring-loaded and you can see why death knight tanking is generally unappealing.
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85 Tauren Death Knight
8015
hey brumak u do realise this is a death knight thread right?
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85 Draenei Shaman
2015
I dont know if this has been said yet as I didn't read the whole 15 pages, but...

What I see as an issue is the lack of synergy between heals and "active mitigation" tanks. The heals simply does not know WHEN the tank will hit with a DS, or whatever other self heal exists/ will be added.

The result at one extreme could be to have heals essentially wasted because a large heal was cast at the same time as a DS type ability is used. The result could be a wash with lots of overheals. Shields placed on the tank offset this a bit in that the "overheal" is still of some value, but at levels or several extra "wasted" large mana heals matter over the course of a boss fight, I can see where there would be issues.
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85 Human Warrior
0
I agree. I really don't want them to ruin my warrior. I don't raid or anything but I enjoy tanking five mans with this guy. If they ruin that I'll just go back to dps all the time.
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90 Blood Elf Priest
9955
Before they make tanking harder, they need to fix targeting first...
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85 Night Elf Druid
3640
Its so god damn true its not even funny
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85 Blood Elf Hunter
7430
solution to blood tanking

make improved death strike also make rune strike provide a blood barrier for
3/6/10% (max hp)
times
mastery %

so say i have 100k hp, and use rune strike with this talent, then say my mastery is at 50%

so i get an extra blood shield with 0.10 (max HP) X .5 (mastery at 50%)

so that's 10k(X)0.5=5k extra absorption, and with higher mastery and higher health it becomes more effective

now of course percentages would be susceptible to change for balance, but this would change blood DK to use runes for regen+shield, R power for shield

so the entire rotation flows for survivability

and thats just the start of an idea
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85 Human Paladin
2950
What I'd like to know is, what effect on DPS players will this change have? Right now the only obligation that DPS has is to, well, mindlessly kill stuff. With the change to threat making threat a non-issue there is now nothing for the DPS players to look out for other than fire. DPS will now just hit their abilities and sit there, not having to worry about anything other than following their rotation.

I see it like this:

Tanks will have to move out of fire, and have to watch their resources and mitigation abilities.

Healers will have to move out of fire, and have to watch the group's health and their own mana.

DPS will have to move out of fire, and have to press their buttons.

Is there not something wrong with over half of the player base just mashing buttons, or is it just me?
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