GC's latest blog, Active Mitigation Playstyle

90 Human Warlock
7320
Complete revamping of tanking in the works???? Why must you revamp tanking. If it's not broke don't fix it. Ever here that one. Change can be good, but months of trying to fix something that gets shattered sux. This new way of tanking may be good...maybe even better, but there are probably ways to fix whatever current issues with tanking are without breaking the whole thing up and rebuilding. Some people may like the new challenge and may even flock to it, but the losses will be greater if it sucks. The challenges I would like you to work on involve creation of new a greater things for wow, not pushing us to learn how to replay current. I and many will feel nothing for figuring out how to play the new Tank with my tanking chars. Spend the resources creating new ways to challenge us in dungeons, new lands, raids, battlegrounds etc.. Or maybe even fixing old ones that used to kick $#@ like Wintergrasp or whatever.
Peace :)
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85 Draenei Paladin
3995
So let's say Blizzard decides to fix DKs so they aren't so constrained by both gear choices and by resources/rotation. That's probably not a huge deal and they've done similar things before in content patches. But let's say they also decide to (basically) nerf the other three tank classes passive mitigation and buff/create active mitigation systems for each of them.

In my mind that's a hell of a lot of change mid-expansion. Is Blizzard going to risk breaking three of the four tanking classes in the last content patch of an expansion? And you can't say, "just patch them back the next week if it goes wrong" because every encounter in 4.3 is going to be designed with active mitigation in mind. It either has to work for all of them or the content isn't going to match the players; we might steamroll it or it might steamroll us more-so than any one-sided content we've seen so far.
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81 Human Death Knight
2680
Class design and class balance in WoW has always been innovative, exceptional, and leagues ahead of every other game out there. This just proves for the umpteenth time that Blizzard is the master of the MMO genre, and they continue to evolve and refine the "tank" role. The cynicism and criticism in this topic is not only out of line, but completely unwarranted. Blizzard is beyond reproach when it comes to both gameplay and class balance, and the new refinements to the tanking role will once again prove this.
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85 Draenei Priest
3540
First, my healing model gets changed, so I have to shelf my priest.

Now, the tanking model will probably get changed, so I have to shelf my bear tank.

Why won't you just let me enjoy tanking or healing? :'(


Tried disc priest at the start of the xpac. That was horrendous.

Tried druid tank after that. Bad design of Savage Defense was a deal breaker.

Tried demo lock after that. Hardcasting Soul Fire? lolno.

Resto shaman was next. Speaks for itself. NEXT!

Shadow priest. Throughput is fantastic, but the clunky mastery and "lolhitrating" design makes me want to kick a puppy. Where is Crithto when you need him? >.>

DK Tank was next. My guild allowed me into two nights of Firelands, then booted me because of the obvious blood problems.

This expansion has been so very un-fun for me ¯\(°-o)/¯
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90 Tauren Druid
5345
Tanking Fixes - Too little, too late. The warning signs have been out there since Cata came out. A good lesson learned for the devs of the next big game.

Just because "you", meaning the devs, think micro managing resources as the most critical role in a group is "fun" all while you are expected to know every encounter, be able to explain it to multiple levels of intelligence, all while manipulating your playstyle to off set the idiocies of others, if there is any hope of finishing the instance, it doesn't mean that the your players will.

The fact that the "tank" shortage has lasted this long shows that at first the devs were too proud to fix it at the release of Cata, then the put in fixes to late to stop the hemorrhaging of tanks, which compounded the tank shortage, which then angered the healers (the bread and butter of any game) who then started leaving, which only further the tank and now healer shortage, meanwhile dps queues go up, and up, and up... Finally the Devs decide that saving face is not worth the huge incoming loss of subscriptions and the resultant hit to the bottom line and now getting pressure from Senior Management to fix their frickin game....

TOO LITTLE,TOO LATE!

Don;t worry Blizz you have fallen into the same trap that EQ did when it thought it was too big to fail. You proved them wrong and have only set the stage for the next big thing. You think it will be Titan, and your investors are really hoping it is, because WoW is death spiraling and everyone knows it. The good news for you is you have farther too fall then EQ did in terms of subscriptions, but you are spiraling none-the-less.

/smug developers @ start of Cata = Homer Headslap = Doh!
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85 Human Priest
6025
08/16/2011 08:23 PMPosted by Texaporte
Tried disc priest at the start of the xpac. That was horrendous.

Ahahaha... yeah, that's basically the one thing that stuck with me. I mean we aren't bad now, but the beginning just sticks with you for some reason (kind of like first impressions).
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85 Goblin Warrior
0
So Shield Block is going back to being an active mitigation ability like it was in Classic WoW?

Wasn't there a reason that was changed before LK? That mashing a single button over and over for more mitigation wasn't fun or interesting because basically warriors just mashed it every time it came off cooldown?

You know, like you have Blood Death Knights doing right now with Death Strike?

I'm curious, do you guys keep a log of why you've made certain changes in the past, or do you need to figure out why you made them all over again?
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85 Night Elf Warrior
0
Yes, let's just drag down the other tanks to the DKs level. Which is not fun. Shield tanks aren't broken and they have been running fine for years. Try bringing up DKs (and bears?) to their level.

Just because you screw up on one tanking class doesn't mean you should punish the others. If I wanted to tank like a DK then I would roll one. If the are all going to be the same, then I have no reason to tank anymore.

Do your job and fix things. Not break them.
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85 Night Elf Druid
10800
My main is a warrior tank, though I also have alt paladin and druid tanks, so I have a bit of experience between a few different tank systems.

That said, my main concern with this whole thing going forward is less about the "active survival management" (though I do feel my warrior has more buttons already to deal with than a paladin or a druid), but more particularly the resource management end of it. During the recent "Ask The Devs: Tanking" Q & A, the issue of rage versus mana versus Runes came up, in the context that it is more difficult for warriors and druids to generate initial "snap" aggro, because their resource starts at 0%, whereas DKs/Pallies start at 100%. Blizzard said that they felt this was a non-issue (though, at least it seems to me, an awful lot of warriors feel this way), and to deal with it.

If we're going to go forward with this new "active survival management" and have tanks really manage their resources, this makes me a bit leery about the future, as it concerns rage. As long as the current rage model (starting at 0%) holds, then instead of having difficulty building threat (for which there are workarounds, currently), we're going to end up having difficulty contributing to our own survival early. It was briefly mentioned in today's Dev Watercooler about potentially letting Prot Warriors control their own rage more, but that's missing the point - my resource system starting at 0 puts me at a disadvantage. I can choose between getting some early threat (the only time its an issue), or contributing to my survivability.

I guess what I'm asking here is, has Blizzard changed their mind about the way the rage resource system works relative to mana/runes? If not, how do you plan on implementing all of this in a way that doesn't continue to put rage-users at a disadvantage?

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85 Night Elf Druid
10800
08/16/2011 08:22 PMPosted by Jaxl
Blizzard is beyond reproach when it comes to both gameplay and class balance, and the new refinements to the tanking role will once again prove this.


That's actually an astoundingly silly (being kind) thing to say. Blizzard has made mistakes before, and they'll probably be the first to admit this. I don't think "beyond reproach" means what you think it means.
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85 Draenei Paladin
3995
08/16/2011 08:39 PMPosted by Naturawr
That's actually an astoundingly silly (being kind) thing to say. Blizzard has made mistakes before, and they'll probably be the first to admit this. I don't think "beyond reproach" means what you think it means.


I think you missed the point of that post. Try reading that as Stephen Colbert.
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81 Human Death Knight
2680
08/16/2011 08:39 PMPosted by Naturawr
Blizzard is beyond reproach when it comes to both gameplay and class balance, and the new refinements to the tanking role will once again prove this.


That's actually an astoundingly silly (being kind) thing to say. Blizzard has made mistakes before, and they'll probably be the first to admit this. I don't think "beyond reproach" means what you think it means.


I know exactly what it means, and it describes Blizzard perfectly. Any mistakes Blizzard has made ( and they assuredly minor, and few and far between) have been corrected with laser like focus and lighting quick speed. Not to mention that end result has always been peerless in quality.
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85 Undead Warrior
4630
Pretty much what Op said and what others are saying can be found in this thread also. Although it starts about the vengeance change a few pages later it goes for the long term changes which is turning things for the other tanks similar to the DK tank model while it's a FACT that DK blood tank model has issues (in high end content).

http://us.battle.net/wow/en/forum/topic/2973255004

Thread is capped but a good read for those that missed it or want to update them self with what is going on.
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85 Night Elf Warrior
5855
08/16/2011 03:22 PMPosted by Poliwag
I just wish healers had the ability to see a DK tank's resources :/


Not that any healer should really have to download a mod/addon to keep track of their tank, but is there a mod/addon that would allow a person to guesstimate (OMG guesstimate passed the spell check) Runes by the abilities used? The mod/addon would only have to scan the Death Knight's gear and talents to get a precise overview of their stats and then check on what ability was used when to check up on Rune refreshment. Then a healer could accurately be able to tell when X was off cooldown and could be used again and help time it with the tank against some major violence the boss for that encounter has.

Now I wish I had done some more programming in school rather than screwing around playing Warcraft 2 via LAN with all the other students in the class. (I really only mean about 7 others. We were able to fill a map completely every day.)
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90 Undead Death Knight
10720
I also find it curiously comical that this 1st time acknowledgement (however slight) of Blood issues comes in a rather unfocused aside discussion in the General Discussions forum. No offense meant to the OP, but considering some of the excruciatingly long discussions with math, logs, arguments and counter arguments over what seems like 6 months in the tanking forums ...... this doesn't seemed the most reasoned place to toss more wood on the fire. Ah well, no specifics were mentioned anyway. Probably just a tactical miss step.
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85 Dwarf Paladin
6515
It is as if they let children write their business plan (although not children that play the game strangely enough). "I'm bored with this, make it do something else!" They've reworked tanks constantly through cataclysm. Leave them the f*ck alone for a while. God damn. Go and fix arcane mages or soemthing. Tanks don't need a more active mitigation model, arcane mages need a more engrossing and complex rotation.
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85 Worgen Warrior
3375
So instead of fixing the DK tanking system, you would rather change all of the other classes that are doingjust fine and make them as bad as a blood DK...that makes absolutely no sense at all. You can just fix 1 class but instead want every class to relearn their mitigation. Just when warriors finally get a real nice mitigation setup you take it away. I suppose its ur hotfix to paladin tanks for their wasted stats when they go over the avoidance cap. Well if this change does occur you can bet I am gonna stop tanking on all toons because its not worth it to stress like a DK when all you had to do was fix the DK tanking system. And I am sure many other tanks feel the same and will most likely follow the same road. This is a very disappointing move Blizzard, I hope your happy shoo'ing away your much needed tanks. Have a nice day.
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90 Troll Shaman
10025
Don;t worry Blizz you have fallen into the same trap that EQ did when it thought it was too big to fail. You proved them wrong and have only set the stage for the next big thing. You think it will be Titan, and your investors are really hoping it is, because WoW is death spiraling and everyone knows it. The good news for you is you have farther too fall then EQ did in terms of subscriptions, but you are spiraling none-the-less.

/smug developers @ start of Cata = Homer Headslap = Doh!


Having seen EQ go downhill due to these same issues, it sucks to see WoW destroy itself as well. IF we follow history, Titan will be a no-contest game (like EQ2) and whichever game goes more casual (hopefully TOR) will be the next WoW.

Blizz repeated Sony to a T and even though several on these forums pointed it out, they still do not see the error in their ways. WoW was sucessful (and beat EQ2) because while the hardcore EQ players went to EQ2 casuals came to WoW because it was easier. While EQ2 tried to appease the hardcore, those who demanded harder playsyles and those who want attention for "achievments" in game , WoW said lets make it easy and have fun.

Guess which decision won?
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